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How much of the budget is police, parks, and roads? When the budget is questioned the response is always the most popular examples and ignore everything else.

How much of the budget is police, parks, and roads? When the budget is questioned the response is always the most popular examples and ignore everything else. When was the last time you used a sociology research grant? Or an ICBM?

jeltz 2y ago
The reason we pay for ICMBs is to prevent warmongers like Putin from invading countries which would be bad for the whole global economy. So you get advantage from ICMBs all the time indirectly.
- grandempire 2y ago
  I personally don’t lose sleep over what Putin might do because it’s outside of my circle of influence. Interesting to hear the military budget is now completely necessary from HNers.
AngryData 2y ago
I use them daily, in not being some poor serf, by not risking famine every year, and not living in a land beleaguered by war. Those things are sort of like having competent IT security. If they are doing everything right, they will seem like they aren't doing anything at all, but when they are gone all of a destruction and doom is always just a day away.
- surgical_fire 2y ago
  Sometimes I think that the libertarians should be condemned to live in their dream society, without laws, regulations, public service, etc. It gets tiresome listening to their "taxes are theft" bullshit.
  - card_zero 2y ago
    Why are they not collected through consent?
    - krapp 2y ago
      No one would consent.
      - grandempire 2y ago
        There are many community groups historically funded through consent with seemingly no direct kickbacks, including churches.
        krapp 2y ago
        We're not talking about communities, we're talking about modern countries. Most people aren't willing to pay out of pocket for anything that doesn't benefit them directly, which is why the reason most people give to charity is that its tax deductible. A few might give out of the kindness of their heart or some sense of civic duty, but not enough.
        grandempire 2y ago
        I agree that the primary function of taxation is to fund things that have serious free rider problems otherwise. But part of the problem is the lack of community structure and expectation that we can centrally fund and manage problems. There are whole communities in the US that lived for generations on civic duty and kindness of heart.
        krapp 2y ago
        >There are whole communities in the US that lived for generations on civic duty and kindness of heart. But not entirely. Living in the US means they take advantage of the American capitalist system and infrastructure to some degree, which means they benefit from taxation. And obviously they pay their taxes otherwise the men with guns would have shown up. And again, the free rider problem is intractable at scale. You can't simply build "community structure" and expect everyone to buy in. If that were possible, we wouldn't need laws at all, we could just expect everyone to play nice. And the fact that most people play nice by default doesn't imply laws aren't necessary. And we can centrally fund and manage problems. That does work. Look at the numerous public work projects in the US like Hoover Dam, NASA, interstate highways, modern agriculture, the internet. None of that happens if all you can depend on is kindness of heart.
- grandempire 2y ago
  So you’re taking the position that the government budget mostly consists of good things that most people would agree are good value? Why did you lead with police and parks instead?
surgical_fire 2y ago
What exactly is the problem with sociology research? Is it not a valid field of study? Or are you just against research grants as a whole? I think it benefits society to fund academic research.
- grandempire 2y ago
  > I think it benefits society to fund academic research. see how you mentally group all these things under one umbrella. No I don’t think sociology research is on the same standing as physics research and I also don’t think all physics research is equal. Based on the reports coming from Doge I think there are a lot of bad studies funded in the name of science or academic research.
  - fnordian_slip 2y ago
    > Based on the reports coming from Doge Is this supposed to be a humorous comment, or are you seriously using the reports coming from doge in an argument, as if they were honest reports? I realise that this comment might come off as antagonistic, and I apologise. But since I guffawed when I read it, as I interpreted it as the former, I'm now curious to find out if I'm correct.
    - grandempire 2y ago
      All the reports are fake? These projects weren’t actually being funded? I have grad school friends who lost funding. Was that fake?
      - fnordian_slip 2y ago
        You misunderstood me, I think. I'm not calling doges actions fake, but the reports about how much money they saved. And I call into question the pretense that the projects they defunded were all complete wastes of money, as the head of that department is known to be a habitual liar.
        2y ago

jeltz 2y ago

The reason we pay for ICMBs is to prevent warmongers like Putin from invading countries which would be bad for the whole global economy. So you get advantage from ICMBs all the time indirectly.

grandempire 2y ago
I personally don’t lose sleep over what Putin might do because it’s outside of my circle of influence. Interesting to hear the military budget is now completely necessary from HNers.

AngryData 2y ago

I use them daily, in not being some poor serf, by not risking famine every year, and not living in a land beleaguered by war. Those things are sort of like having competent IT security. If they are doing everything right, they will seem like they aren't doing anything at all, but when they are gone all of a destruction and doom is always just a day away.

surgical_fire 2y ago
Sometimes I think that the libertarians should be condemned to live in their dream society, without laws, regulations, public service, etc. It gets tiresome listening to their "taxes are theft" bullshit.
- card_zero 2y ago
  Why are they not collected through consent?
  - krapp 2y ago
    No one would consent.
    - grandempire 2y ago
      There are many community groups historically funded through consent with seemingly no direct kickbacks, including churches.
      - krapp 2y ago
        We're not talking about communities, we're talking about modern countries. Most people aren't willing to pay out of pocket for anything that doesn't benefit them directly, which is why the reason most people give to charity is that its tax deductible. A few might give out of the kindness of their heart or some sense of civic duty, but not enough.
        grandempire 2y ago
        I agree that the primary function of taxation is to fund things that have serious free rider problems otherwise. But part of the problem is the lack of community structure and expectation that we can centrally fund and manage problems. There are whole communities in the US that lived for generations on civic duty and kindness of heart.
        krapp 2y ago
        >There are whole communities in the US that lived for generations on civic duty and kindness of heart. But not entirely. Living in the US means they take advantage of the American capitalist system and infrastructure to some degree, which means they benefit from taxation. And obviously they pay their taxes otherwise the men with guns would have shown up. And again, the free rider problem is intractable at scale. You can't simply build "community structure" and expect everyone to buy in. If that were possible, we wouldn't need laws at all, we could just expect everyone to play nice. And the fact that most people play nice by default doesn't imply laws aren't necessary. And we can centrally fund and manage problems. That does work. Look at the numerous public work projects in the US like Hoover Dam, NASA, interstate highways, modern agriculture, the internet. None of that happens if all you can depend on is kindness of heart.
grandempire 2y ago
So you’re taking the position that the government budget mostly consists of good things that most people would agree are good value? Why did you lead with police and parks instead?

surgical_fire 2y ago

What exactly is the problem with sociology research? Is it not a valid field of study? Or are you just against research grants as a whole? I think it benefits society to fund academic research.

grandempire 2y ago
> I think it benefits society to fund academic research. see how you mentally group all these things under one umbrella. No I don’t think sociology research is on the same standing as physics research and I also don’t think all physics research is equal. Based on the reports coming from Doge I think there are a lot of bad studies funded in the name of science or academic research.
- fnordian_slip 2y ago
  > Based on the reports coming from Doge Is this supposed to be a humorous comment, or are you seriously using the reports coming from doge in an argument, as if they were honest reports? I realise that this comment might come off as antagonistic, and I apologise. But since I guffawed when I read it, as I interpreted it as the former, I'm now curious to find out if I'm correct.
  - grandempire 2y ago
    All the reports are fake? These projects weren’t actually being funded? I have grad school friends who lost funding. Was that fake?
    - fnordian_slip 2y ago
      You misunderstood me, I think. I'm not calling doges actions fake, but the reports about how much money they saved. And I call into question the pretense that the projects they defunded were all complete wastes of money, as the head of that department is known to be a habitual liar.
      - 2y ago