7 ms·

Could we please change the title to say : "Gumroad is source available"? This license is clearly fails OSD and is not open source by the industry standard; per

by clcaev 2y ago

Could we please change the title to say : "Gumroad is source available"? This license is clearly fails OSD and is not open source by the industry standard; perpetuating a false statement is unhelpful. https://opensource.org/osd https://opensource.org/osd

runningmike 2y ago
So true. A very misleading title. This license is far away of any approved OSI or FSF Foss license. Gumroad is a great service, the value is imho not in the software. But in the execution of it’s mission and the very simple way to lower the bar to sell digital goods without upfront costs.
WhyNotHugo 2y ago
The license is actually pretty restrictive: you can only use this if you own a small company or work for government / non-profit. Most average human's (including myself) can't use the source code in any way: > You may use the software under this license only if (1) your company has less than 1 million USD (2024) total revenue in the prior tax year, and less than 10 million USD (2024) GMV (Gross Merchandise Value), or (2) you are a non-profit organization or government entity.
- noirscape 2y ago
  The way it's been phrased, it seems like if you want to use the code to run a small webshop for some goods, you can use it, but if you're actively trying to run a resale platform, that's when you get in trouble. I don't think not being open source is that big of a deal in this situation, they aren't the only player in this space anyway. (Woocommerce to my knowledge still dominates the "small business webshop" market and probably always will for as long as the typical shared webhost webstack is still an AMP stack.)
  - rustc 2y ago
    It's risky if you have any chance of ever crossing $1M in company revenue because the license will terminate as soon as you reach that and you'll have to rewrite everything. > The licensor grants you a copyright license for the software to do everything you might do with the software that would otherwise infringe the licensor's copyright, but only as long as you meet all the conditions below. > You may use the software under this license only if (1) your company has less than 1 million USD (2024) total revenue in the prior tax year, and less than 10 million USD (2024) GMV (Gross Merchandise Value), or (2) you are a non-profit organization or government entity.
    - frainfreeze 2y ago
      To be fair, getting a platform for free that can potentially bring you to $1M is a very good deal, I'm quite sure you ll figure out a strategy before you get to $1M, and perhaps even get a good deal on the license from them. However I do think they should've been more upfront about the licensing.
      - tyzoid 2y ago
        1M revenue isn't that high a bar to clear in retail, just takes one popular/meme product. After all the COGS/fixed costs are tallied up, that could leave you with significantly less with which to contemplate custom development or platform changes.
        999900000999 2y ago
        I'm sure if you're lucky to get near 1 million in revenue you can reach out and pay for a license.
    - gamblor956 2y ago
      You are not required to rewrite everything if you exceed $1million in annual revenue. You are required to get a commercial license from them, which costs money. That's not the same thing. And quite frankly, if you're making over $1 million in annual revenue you should be able to afford the license fee for the most important part of your company.
- b3lvedere 2y ago
  Must be awesome to use this software in a country that does not use the US Dollar as its currency :)
  - krzrak 2y ago
    let me tell you about currency exchange rates...
    - snadal 2y ago
      License only mentions USD. So as far as you have no USD revenue, you are fine.
      - b3lvedere 2y ago
        Exactly :) Good luck non-US companies! :)
      - victorbjorklund 2y ago
        The intepretation would be done by a court. Not sure they would agree that the intention was to allow unlimited revenue in other currencies.
      - sieabahlpark 2y ago
        [dead]
  - Imustaskforhelp 2y ago
    LMAO. Everybody keep quiet..... Don't let them change their license. And even if they change their license , we need to fork this with this specific license right now!! Going to fork it right now
  - gamblor956 2y ago
    That's not how it works, of course. It's your FX-converted revenue, meaning, whatever currency you use converted to USD. The license doesn't bother to state this because they assume basic common sense on the part of the licensee. If that's not enough, they have the backing of several decades of industry practice[1] and several centuries of law. [1] For example, take a look at the Steam and Epic creator agreements, which also use USD for financial thresholds even though their stores operate in dozens of countries and accept dozens of currencies.
- Onavo 2y ago
  They are probably also trying to get free contributions to the codebase. Gumroad is infamous for underpaying and using cheap labor where possible.
  - dgrcode 2y ago
    > Gumroad is infamous for underpaying and using cheap labor where possible. What? Where do you get this from? It's quite the opposite.
- reisse 2y ago
  > The license is actually pretty restrictive: you can only use this if you own a small company or work for government / non-profit. I wonder if this can be worked around by setting up an OpenAI-style non-profit arm to use Gumroad.
that_guy_iain 2y ago
[flagged]
- moe_sc 2y ago
  The thing is, HN is a technical audience, not an average person in this regard. People here know the difference or are easily able to understand it if they haven't been confronted with it.
  - that_guy_iain 2y ago
    >People here know the difference or are easily able to understand it if they haven't been confronted with it. No. They're trying to force a definition of open-source that does not exist to make it FOSS because FOSS people want everything to be FOSS so try to pressure people into it. The definition is defined by dictionaries and it's different from what is said on here. Quite simply, they're wrong. They want it to mean one thing however the definition of the word by Oxford and Webster applies to what is done in that repo. It is open-source by the definition of the word by people who define and clarify words and not by FOSS devs who want everything to be FOSS. It is open-source! And the fact, people on here don't know that shows people on here don't know the difference.
    - singpolyma3 2y ago
      Says it is open source but not FOSS is just silly. You know what the OSS part of FOSS stands for right?
    - boxed 2y ago
      We all know the difference and the difference here is enormous.
    - DetroitThrow 2y ago
      >It is open-source! No, it's not. Please read number 5, it might enlighten you to what people colloquially consider open source, which didn't have a dictionary definition until technical people started using this definition: https://opensource.org/osd https://opensource.org/osd >And the fact, people on here don't know that shows people on here don't know the difference. ..What? Do you know what OSS vs FOSS is?
whalesalad 2y ago
[flagged]
- azemetre 2y ago
  This is not pedantry, this is adhering to the actual definition of open source that is generally accepted in our community: https://opensource.org/osd https://opensource.org/osd > Open source doesn’t just mean access to the source code
  - whalesalad 2y ago
    No good deed goes unpunished around here.
    - fnordlord 2y ago
      I think it's more that bullshit is called when bullshit is seen.
      - whalesalad 2y ago
        This is just so hyperbolic? It's code for a project you can explore and learn from. License is not permissive? It's a friggin rails app - just look at the model or mechanism you are interested in copying, figure out the approach taken, and recreate that approach. Why is everyone in here with pitchforks?
        azemetre 2y ago
        It's not hyperbolic. We're in a profession that elevates each other via open source. Saying something that is open source when it's not is no different than snake oil salesmen selling whiskey elixirs in the 1800s as cure alls. They are lying and need to be called out.
        whalesalad 2y ago
        Hard disagree. In the real world, the source of this app is open and therefore it is open source. You guys are behaving like extremists. Would you prefer nothing at all? Sounds like in this case everyone here is looking past the golden egg in front of you - a successful rails app you can explore and play with - and focusing entirely on the wrong thing.

by clcaev 2y ago

runningmike 2y ago

So true. A very misleading title. This license is far away of any approved OSI or FSF Foss license. Gumroad is a great service, the value is imho not in the software. But in the execution of it’s mission and the very simple way to lower the bar to sell digital goods without upfront costs.

WhyNotHugo 2y ago

The license is actually pretty restrictive: you can only use this if you own a small company or work for government / non-profit. Most average human's (including myself) can't use the source code in any way: > You may use the software under this license only if (1) your company has less than 1 million USD (2024) total revenue in the prior tax year, and less than 10 million USD (2024) GMV (Gross Merchandise Value), or (2) you are a non-profit organization or government entity.

noirscape 2y ago
The way it's been phrased, it seems like if you want to use the code to run a small webshop for some goods, you can use it, but if you're actively trying to run a resale platform, that's when you get in trouble. I don't think not being open source is that big of a deal in this situation, they aren't the only player in this space anyway. (Woocommerce to my knowledge still dominates the "small business webshop" market and probably always will for as long as the typical shared webhost webstack is still an AMP stack.)
- rustc 2y ago
  It's risky if you have any chance of ever crossing $1M in company revenue because the license will terminate as soon as you reach that and you'll have to rewrite everything. > The licensor grants you a copyright license for the software to do everything you might do with the software that would otherwise infringe the licensor's copyright, but only as long as you meet all the conditions below. > You may use the software under this license only if (1) your company has less than 1 million USD (2024) total revenue in the prior tax year, and less than 10 million USD (2024) GMV (Gross Merchandise Value), or (2) you are a non-profit organization or government entity.
  - frainfreeze 2y ago
    To be fair, getting a platform for free that can potentially bring you to $1M is a very good deal, I'm quite sure you ll figure out a strategy before you get to $1M, and perhaps even get a good deal on the license from them. However I do think they should've been more upfront about the licensing.
    - tyzoid 2y ago
      1M revenue isn't that high a bar to clear in retail, just takes one popular/meme product. After all the COGS/fixed costs are tallied up, that could leave you with significantly less with which to contemplate custom development or platform changes.
      - 999900000999 2y ago
        I'm sure if you're lucky to get near 1 million in revenue you can reach out and pay for a license.
  - gamblor956 2y ago
    You are not required to rewrite everything if you exceed $1million in annual revenue. You are required to get a commercial license from them, which costs money. That's not the same thing. And quite frankly, if you're making over $1 million in annual revenue you should be able to afford the license fee for the most important part of your company.
b3lvedere 2y ago
Must be awesome to use this software in a country that does not use the US Dollar as its currency :)
- krzrak 2y ago
  let me tell you about currency exchange rates...
  - snadal 2y ago
    License only mentions USD. So as far as you have no USD revenue, you are fine.
    - b3lvedere 2y ago
      Exactly :) Good luck non-US companies! :)
    - victorbjorklund 2y ago
      The intepretation would be done by a court. Not sure they would agree that the intention was to allow unlimited revenue in other currencies.
    - sieabahlpark 2y ago
      [dead]
- Imustaskforhelp 2y ago
  LMAO. Everybody keep quiet..... Don't let them change their license. And even if they change their license , we need to fork this with this specific license right now!! Going to fork it right now
- gamblor956 2y ago
  That's not how it works, of course. It's your FX-converted revenue, meaning, whatever currency you use converted to USD. The license doesn't bother to state this because they assume basic common sense on the part of the licensee. If that's not enough, they have the backing of several decades of industry practice[1] and several centuries of law. [1] For example, take a look at the Steam and Epic creator agreements, which also use USD for financial thresholds even though their stores operate in dozens of countries and accept dozens of currencies.
Onavo 2y ago
They are probably also trying to get free contributions to the codebase. Gumroad is infamous for underpaying and using cheap labor where possible.
- dgrcode 2y ago
  > Gumroad is infamous for underpaying and using cheap labor where possible. What? Where do you get this from? It's quite the opposite.
reisse 2y ago
> The license is actually pretty restrictive: you can only use this if you own a small company or work for government / non-profit. I wonder if this can be worked around by setting up an OpenAI-style non-profit arm to use Gumroad.

that_guy_iain 2y ago

[flagged]

moe_sc 2y ago
The thing is, HN is a technical audience, not an average person in this regard. People here know the difference or are easily able to understand it if they haven't been confronted with it.
- that_guy_iain 2y ago
  >People here know the difference or are easily able to understand it if they haven't been confronted with it. No. They're trying to force a definition of open-source that does not exist to make it FOSS because FOSS people want everything to be FOSS so try to pressure people into it. The definition is defined by dictionaries and it's different from what is said on here. Quite simply, they're wrong. They want it to mean one thing however the definition of the word by Oxford and Webster applies to what is done in that repo. It is open-source by the definition of the word by people who define and clarify words and not by FOSS devs who want everything to be FOSS. It is open-source! And the fact, people on here don't know that shows people on here don't know the difference.
  - singpolyma3 2y ago
    Says it is open source but not FOSS is just silly. You know what the OSS part of FOSS stands for right?
  - boxed 2y ago
    We all know the difference and the difference here is enormous.
  - DetroitThrow 2y ago
    >It is open-source! No, it's not. Please read number 5, it might enlighten you to what people colloquially consider open source, which didn't have a dictionary definition until technical people started using this definition: https://opensource.org/osd https://opensource.org/osd >And the fact, people on here don't know that shows people on here don't know the difference. ..What? Do you know what OSS vs FOSS is?

whalesalad 2y ago

[flagged]

azemetre 2y ago
This is not pedantry, this is adhering to the actual definition of open source that is generally accepted in our community: https://opensource.org/osd https://opensource.org/osd > Open source doesn’t just mean access to the source code
- whalesalad 2y ago
  No good deed goes unpunished around here.
  - fnordlord 2y ago
    I think it's more that bullshit is called when bullshit is seen.
    - whalesalad 2y ago
      This is just so hyperbolic? It's code for a project you can explore and learn from. License is not permissive? It's a friggin rails app - just look at the model or mechanism you are interested in copying, figure out the approach taken, and recreate that approach. Why is everyone in here with pitchforks?
      - azemetre 2y ago
        It's not hyperbolic. We're in a profession that elevates each other via open source. Saying something that is open source when it's not is no different than snake oil salesmen selling whiskey elixirs in the 1800s as cure alls. They are lying and need to be called out.
        whalesalad 2y ago
        Hard disagree. In the real world, the source of this app is open and therefore it is open source. You guys are behaving like extremists. Would you prefer nothing at all? Sounds like in this case everyone here is looking past the golden egg in front of you - a successful rails app you can explore and play with - and focusing entirely on the wrong thing.