7 ms·

Valve brings non-game software to Steam

64 points by AndrewDucker 14y ago

jiggy2011 14y ago
Valve are going to compete head on with Microsoft then? That's pretty ballsy. Let's hope steam is not left a smouldering corpse.
- ddt 14y ago
  It's hard to envision this being an extinction event for Steam. Microsoft has just never been able to get people onboard in the way that Valve has with PC game distribution platforms. GFWL was/is a disaster that ended up being more trouble than it was worth. I could see Steam having to back out of software distribution, but I can't imagine Steam dying in the foreseeable future. Not with tens of millions of users voluntarily and enthusiastically locked into the platform.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    I think users can be fickle about these things, MS just has to make sure their store tactically undercuts Valve's on some popular products and they could steal a lot of users. MS also has a trump card here in the form of the Xbox, they can make their Windows stuff integrate with it very well for example allowing you to buy a game once and make it playable on both your PC and your Xbox, or to transfer save games between each etc. Microsoft can also demand Windows Store exclusivity for games to also appear on the Xbox.
    - ddt 14y ago
      Users are fickle, but this play was tried by EA with Origin. You can get them onboard with the big titles like Battlefield 3, but they've been less successful at getting users to buy titles from smaller publishers. Steam offers a better deal to small publishers, and is actively engaged in the community in a way that I doubt Microsoft can replicate. As for Xbox-PC game interoperability, that would be interesting. I know multiplayer between the two platforms has been ruled out, but transferring from one to another might be attractive. It also makes you wonder why they haven't done it. Games built for the XBLA are written in XNA and can be played with minimal adjustment on Windows. But practically every XBLA-PC success I can think of (Bastion, Orcs Must Die, Limbo, etc.) has been put onto Steam. Makes you wonder why Microsoft isn't already mandating XBLA games be ported into Games for Windows Live if they go to PC.
      - petitmiam 14y ago
        > I know multiplayer between the two platforms has been ruled out Thanks for pointing that out. I had thought CS:GO was going to be cross-platform Xbox/PC, but it's not anymore. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-26-ps3-cs-go-supports-keyboard-and-mouse http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-26-ps3-cs-go-suppo...
  - squiggy22 14y ago
    Agreed. Steam has been something of a trojan horse, building a huge user base in gaming before rapidly switching direction into this market. Good luck to them I say, MS alternatives are nowhere near as polished.
- correctifier 14y ago
  They really aren't even going head to head with Microsoft, since the Windows 8 app store is only for "Metro" apps and this will only be for regular Windows apps. The real danger for Valve is that people will release games for Metro instead of Steam, this is probably them trying to hedge against that.
duaneb 14y ago
It's interesting to see how this plays out. Valve + general purpose software distribution + linux ports + hardware speculation - Valve seems like the biggest proponent for general purpose, open computing these days (open in the sense of being able to do what you want with your computer). Could Valve be a valid mainstream competitor for the personal computer market? Not all computing can be done from a tablet or console.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  "Valve seems like the biggest proponent for general purpose, open computing these days (open in the sense of being able to do what you want with your computer)." I would have never seen that coming from a company who's most important product is more or less fancy DRM system..., but I surprise myself by finding myself agreeing with you. I'm not quite sure what that means. Maybe the DRM is more incidental that I thought, maybe they just have their heart in the right place, or maybe the state of things is just that bad.
  - ddt 14y ago
    It has to do with the way Valve has approached it. From day one it wasn't, "How do we stop people from pirating?" It was, "How do we make a more convenient service than the pirates?" And that's where they won. In the early days, people pushed back. But then the brand of Valve as people won out over the brand of Valve as the makers of Half-Life. If you make a good product that has convenience over the alternative (piracy) and charge a reasonable amount, people will pay when they used to pirate. The DRM is incidental to the experience. Valve realized it first, and now you're seeing it replicated in things like Netflix and Hulu.
    - jiggy2011 14y ago
      Steam also succeeds because it is cheap, unless a game is selling well they drop the price by a lot very quickly. I've bought games that are only a year or so old for as little as £7.99 (Saints Row 3, Deus Ex HR etc). At highstreet stores it was very difficult to get games for less than £15 or so.
prezjordan 14y ago
I'm really hoping for a steam redesign. I find the UI to be slow and unresponsive. Hopefully something native (on Windows, Mac, AND now Linux) comes out in the near future.
- Serplat 14y ago
  It's also extremely buggy on the Mac, at least. I can't count the number of times dropdown menus have shown up behind everything else.
  - rip_kirby 14y ago
    They've been improving lately. Use to drive me nuts when I want a quick game of Bit Trip Runner, the loading time to start up and login then go to the library might take longer than one quick stage.
jtchang 14y ago
This kind of got me thinking: What would it take for me to try my hand at developing a desktop app today? I am a developer. For the most part I've been doing web applications (with a bit of mobile). This is mostly because I feel there isn't any money to be made in desktop apps. Piracy, distribution, etc. Lots of headaches. Could this change things? Possibly. Just like Java which was download once, run everywhere (haha kidding) we could have apps that are "uniplatform" (yeah I just made up a new word). I buy the app and it is good for desktop, mobile, web. It might give slightly different experiences but my data is still all the same in the back. One of the closest apps I can think of like this is Google Chat/Talk. I can start a conversation in a web browser window, reply using Pidgin, and finish off a conversation on my Android. It is relatively seamless.
- pizza 14y ago
  Even better; a Steam application API: write code once and it's available on any Steam-able OS. Cloud storage and desktop power and a huge userbase would make this a tasty platform.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    They would be better off just publishing NaCl applications. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client
  - pooriaazimi 14y ago
    How would that be any different than Java?! Of course, except from the fact that Java lacked the distribution channel. IMO, That's horrible - nightmare scenario. As a Mac user, I hate nothing more than cross-platform apps. They're ugly and lack almost all the features that makes OS X a great user operating system.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
      You mean like iTunes and Safari? Because Windows users think the same of cross-platform Mac apps.
citricsquid 14y ago
What's interesting is a few weeks back Gabe said that Microsoft were doing bad things with Windows 8, I wonder if this is what got his goat? Steam (I assume) invested a lot in getting software companies on board but if Microsoft had their own app store all this work would be for nothing. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18996377 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18996377
- smacktoward 14y ago
  Look closely at what you wrote, you answered your own question :-D
- james4k 14y ago
  On the other hand, it's been clear that Windows 8 would have an app store for about a year. http://www.technolog.msnbc.msn.com/technology/technolog/windows-8-will-have-its-own-app-store-121250 http://www.technolog.msnbc.msn.com/technology/technolog/wind...
geuis 14y ago
Why is the comparison being made just between Steam and Microsoft's app store? MS hasn't yet launched their service and what it's uptake will be is yet to be known. Alternately, we have the Mac App Store. It's been around for a while, has a huge uptake, and many developers already have data on how successful (or not) they've been. While Macs are only ~20% of the desktop/laptop market, it's a very lucrative segment. I would like to see a comparison with how Valve will compete or cooperate with an existing, proven desktop marketplace rather than speculation on something that hasn't launched yet.
nwmcsween 14y ago
I lost respect for valve after they slam windows 8 as garbage without merit and then open a direct competitor to microsoft's app store.
- zevyoura 14y ago
  I sort of understand the first point, though I don't think they did it on a whim without any "merit." I don't get your second point though, why do you lose respect for them for competing with a product MS hasn't even released? Edit: I saw your post in the other thread where you say more clearly that you think the two are related. I'm still not sure why this is an evil thing to do, or why you're convinced the slamming was 'without merit' but it makes more sense now.
- DigitalJack 14y ago
  Steam pre-dates Microsoft's app store, Apple's app store by a large margin. It's been around for quite a while. Since 2002 I believe. You make it sound as if they just opened it.
  - seabee 14y ago
    Every other app store has games, too - with the reasonable assumption that Windows' app store would too, Microsoft established themselves as a competitor to Steam a year ago.
- secoif 14y ago
  Have you used windows 8? The preview is embarrassingly bad, garbage is being generous.
saturdaysaint 14y ago
I like the idea of a strong platform independent player. I like being in a position where I can switch between Mac and PC fairly painlessly - I like OSX, but sometimes I want the price/performance of a PC tower. The number of critical platform exclusive apps continues to dwindle for me, so a centralized market that minimizes lock-in sounds fantastic.
ja2ke 14y ago
This will dilute the hell out of what I actually use Steam for -- video games. The Steam front page, though it may seem a little sloppy or insane, is extremely successful at pointing me to games I am interested in, at a cheap price. It's going to get weird, and very nebulous, if a copy of Adobe Premiere is up there in the hot picks slider along with Assassin's Creed 3.
- elliottcarlson 14y ago
  It would shock me if they didn't have separate sections to account for just that. They (hopefully) aren't going to alienate the over 40 million user base they have when currently everyone is expecting to see games there. Productivity related desktop applications will not make sense to a large chunk of those users.
  - ja2ke 14y ago
    It's brand diluting all the same, though. I guess they (probably correctly) see that they are doing a lot of things right with online purchases/downloads that other places aren't, but part of what I think they are doing right is having and keeping focus. Of course, people said the same thing when Amazon stopped just selling books, and that worked out alright for them.
gddr 14y ago
I hate Steam's DRM. People keep trying to convince people that it does not actually require an Internet connection and all that. Try using it for 6 months with a 0.2 Mbps connection that gets randomly cut every 5-10 seconds. It can literally take 10 minutes "Preparing to launch" a game. I really hope it doesn't expand to other software. The funniest part is: "Could not connect to Steam network. Start in Offline Mode?". You answer yes. "Error: could not connect to Steam network. This operation cannot be completed in Offline Mode". Maximum trollgaben.
- thereallurch 14y ago
  .2Mbps...maybe that's your real problem? DRM is here to stay, and internet drm is increasingly popular. Maybe time to upgrade your connection?
  - Foy 14y ago
    It's barely even DRM... it's more like you just have to be logged in to Steam to launch online games or games that specifically require an Internet connection. I've started Steam in offline mode to play my singleplayer games whenever I don't have an internet connection quite often, and without issue. But I agree, his 0.2 MB/s connection is probably the main problem there. The issue isn't with Steam's download speeds... it's with his ISP's.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
      Yeah. Steam games aren't encrypted, for instance. They aren't locked to your computer. You can copy the game content files, re-install steam, copy them back, and you'll still have your games provided you can still log into Steam.
    - thereallurch 14y ago
      .2Mbps = .025MB/s
  - emitstop 14y ago
    I'm sure if he was capable of upgrading his connection he would. A lot of places (even in the US) are still not equipped with high speed internet. Just a couple of years ago in Washington State I was still on dial up (albiet in a fairly rural area, but still not more than 45 minutes outside Portland, OR.).
seanalltogether 14y ago
I'm still unclear how you submit an app to their store? If I have an app with a mac and pc build that I want to submit, what do I do?
- Foy 14y ago
  I guess you could try reaching out to one of the many indie developers on Steam. Anyhow, what I suspect though, is that Steam isn't going to become some "app store" like the current Android and Apple ones, rife with fart apps and other useless things. I suspect it would stay highly curated. For example you don't see hundreds of amateur flash games on Steam, everything is cherry picked which makes for a great consumer experience. I know that any game I buy off Steam is going to be of high quality. This has the added benefit of not having any of those "scammer" apps around. You know, those apps that get purchased by any and all hacked Apple accounts just to get pushed to the top of the app store.
- wtracy 14y ago
  Right at the top of the FAQ page: http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/FAQ.php http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/FAQ.php "At the moment Steam is currently not accepting new game submissions as we transition to our new Steam Greenlight process." Previously, I believe you had to contact them and talk to a human being to start the submission process.
graylights 14y ago
Steam isn't just distribution but also offers a lot of features that could translate to apps: 1. Cloud based saves could become file/settings syncing 2. Steam Workshop for users to publish plugins and addons 3. Friends/groups/IM, invite to MP game could become invite to teleconference. 4. Authentication (OpenID) But if my app has file associations and user isn't logged on to steam. When they double click the associated filetype will they have to login to steam before my app can open it?

64 points by AndrewDucker 14y ago

jiggy2011 14y ago

Valve are going to compete head on with Microsoft then? That's pretty ballsy. Let's hope steam is not left a smouldering corpse.

ddt 14y ago
It's hard to envision this being an extinction event for Steam. Microsoft has just never been able to get people onboard in the way that Valve has with PC game distribution platforms. GFWL was/is a disaster that ended up being more trouble than it was worth. I could see Steam having to back out of software distribution, but I can't imagine Steam dying in the foreseeable future. Not with tens of millions of users voluntarily and enthusiastically locked into the platform.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  I think users can be fickle about these things, MS just has to make sure their store tactically undercuts Valve's on some popular products and they could steal a lot of users. MS also has a trump card here in the form of the Xbox, they can make their Windows stuff integrate with it very well for example allowing you to buy a game once and make it playable on both your PC and your Xbox, or to transfer save games between each etc. Microsoft can also demand Windows Store exclusivity for games to also appear on the Xbox.
  - ddt 14y ago
    Users are fickle, but this play was tried by EA with Origin. You can get them onboard with the big titles like Battlefield 3, but they've been less successful at getting users to buy titles from smaller publishers. Steam offers a better deal to small publishers, and is actively engaged in the community in a way that I doubt Microsoft can replicate. As for Xbox-PC game interoperability, that would be interesting. I know multiplayer between the two platforms has been ruled out, but transferring from one to another might be attractive. It also makes you wonder why they haven't done it. Games built for the XBLA are written in XNA and can be played with minimal adjustment on Windows. But practically every XBLA-PC success I can think of (Bastion, Orcs Must Die, Limbo, etc.) has been put onto Steam. Makes you wonder why Microsoft isn't already mandating XBLA games be ported into Games for Windows Live if they go to PC.
    - petitmiam 14y ago
      > I know multiplayer between the two platforms has been ruled out Thanks for pointing that out. I had thought CS:GO was going to be cross-platform Xbox/PC, but it's not anymore. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-26-ps3-cs-go-supports-keyboard-and-mouse http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-26-ps3-cs-go-suppo...
- squiggy22 14y ago
  Agreed. Steam has been something of a trojan horse, building a huge user base in gaming before rapidly switching direction into this market. Good luck to them I say, MS alternatives are nowhere near as polished.
correctifier 14y ago
They really aren't even going head to head with Microsoft, since the Windows 8 app store is only for "Metro" apps and this will only be for regular Windows apps. The real danger for Valve is that people will release games for Metro instead of Steam, this is probably them trying to hedge against that.

duaneb 14y ago

It's interesting to see how this plays out. Valve + general purpose software distribution + linux ports + hardware speculation - Valve seems like the biggest proponent for general purpose, open computing these days (open in the sense of being able to do what you want with your computer). Could Valve be a valid mainstream competitor for the personal computer market? Not all computing can be done from a tablet or console.

jlgreco 14y ago
"Valve seems like the biggest proponent for general purpose, open computing these days (open in the sense of being able to do what you want with your computer)." I would have never seen that coming from a company who's most important product is more or less fancy DRM system..., but I surprise myself by finding myself agreeing with you. I'm not quite sure what that means. Maybe the DRM is more incidental that I thought, maybe they just have their heart in the right place, or maybe the state of things is just that bad.
- ddt 14y ago
  It has to do with the way Valve has approached it. From day one it wasn't, "How do we stop people from pirating?" It was, "How do we make a more convenient service than the pirates?" And that's where they won. In the early days, people pushed back. But then the brand of Valve as people won out over the brand of Valve as the makers of Half-Life. If you make a good product that has convenience over the alternative (piracy) and charge a reasonable amount, people will pay when they used to pirate. The DRM is incidental to the experience. Valve realized it first, and now you're seeing it replicated in things like Netflix and Hulu.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    Steam also succeeds because it is cheap, unless a game is selling well they drop the price by a lot very quickly. I've bought games that are only a year or so old for as little as £7.99 (Saints Row 3, Deus Ex HR etc). At highstreet stores it was very difficult to get games for less than £15 or so.

prezjordan 14y ago

I'm really hoping for a steam redesign. I find the UI to be slow and unresponsive. Hopefully something native (on Windows, Mac, AND now Linux) comes out in the near future.

Serplat 14y ago
It's also extremely buggy on the Mac, at least. I can't count the number of times dropdown menus have shown up behind everything else.
- rip_kirby 14y ago
  They've been improving lately. Use to drive me nuts when I want a quick game of Bit Trip Runner, the loading time to start up and login then go to the library might take longer than one quick stage.

jtchang 14y ago

This kind of got me thinking: What would it take for me to try my hand at developing a desktop app today? I am a developer. For the most part I've been doing web applications (with a bit of mobile). This is mostly because I feel there isn't any money to be made in desktop apps. Piracy, distribution, etc. Lots of headaches. Could this change things? Possibly. Just like Java which was download once, run everywhere (haha kidding) we could have apps that are "uniplatform" (yeah I just made up a new word). I buy the app and it is good for desktop, mobile, web. It might give slightly different experiences but my data is still all the same in the back. One of the closest apps I can think of like this is Google Chat/Talk. I can start a conversation in a web browser window, reply using Pidgin, and finish off a conversation on my Android. It is relatively seamless.

pizza 14y ago
Even better; a Steam application API: write code once and it's available on any Steam-able OS. Cloud storage and desktop power and a huge userbase would make this a tasty platform.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  They would be better off just publishing NaCl applications. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  How would that be any different than Java?! Of course, except from the fact that Java lacked the distribution channel. IMO, That's horrible - nightmare scenario. As a Mac user, I hate nothing more than cross-platform apps. They're ugly and lack almost all the features that makes OS X a great user operating system.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
    You mean like iTunes and Safari? Because Windows users think the same of cross-platform Mac apps.

citricsquid 14y ago

What's interesting is a few weeks back Gabe said that Microsoft were doing bad things with Windows 8, I wonder if this is what got his goat? Steam (I assume) invested a lot in getting software companies on board but if Microsoft had their own app store all this work would be for nothing. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18996377 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18996377

smacktoward 14y ago
Look closely at what you wrote, you answered your own question :-D
james4k 14y ago
On the other hand, it's been clear that Windows 8 would have an app store for about a year. http://www.technolog.msnbc.msn.com/technology/technolog/windows-8-will-have-its-own-app-store-121250 http://www.technolog.msnbc.msn.com/technology/technolog/wind...

geuis 14y ago

Why is the comparison being made just between Steam and Microsoft's app store? MS hasn't yet launched their service and what it's uptake will be is yet to be known. Alternately, we have the Mac App Store. It's been around for a while, has a huge uptake, and many developers already have data on how successful (or not) they've been. While Macs are only ~20% of the desktop/laptop market, it's a very lucrative segment. I would like to see a comparison with how Valve will compete or cooperate with an existing, proven desktop marketplace rather than speculation on something that hasn't launched yet.

nwmcsween 14y ago

I lost respect for valve after they slam windows 8 as garbage without merit and then open a direct competitor to microsoft's app store.

zevyoura 14y ago
I sort of understand the first point, though I don't think they did it on a whim without any "merit." I don't get your second point though, why do you lose respect for them for competing with a product MS hasn't even released? Edit: I saw your post in the other thread where you say more clearly that you think the two are related. I'm still not sure why this is an evil thing to do, or why you're convinced the slamming was 'without merit' but it makes more sense now.
DigitalJack 14y ago
Steam pre-dates Microsoft's app store, Apple's app store by a large margin. It's been around for quite a while. Since 2002 I believe. You make it sound as if they just opened it.
- seabee 14y ago
  Every other app store has games, too - with the reasonable assumption that Windows' app store would too, Microsoft established themselves as a competitor to Steam a year ago.
secoif 14y ago
Have you used windows 8? The preview is embarrassingly bad, garbage is being generous.

saturdaysaint 14y ago

I like the idea of a strong platform independent player. I like being in a position where I can switch between Mac and PC fairly painlessly - I like OSX, but sometimes I want the price/performance of a PC tower. The number of critical platform exclusive apps continues to dwindle for me, so a centralized market that minimizes lock-in sounds fantastic.

ja2ke 14y ago

This will dilute the hell out of what I actually use Steam for -- video games. The Steam front page, though it may seem a little sloppy or insane, is extremely successful at pointing me to games I am interested in, at a cheap price. It's going to get weird, and very nebulous, if a copy of Adobe Premiere is up there in the hot picks slider along with Assassin's Creed 3.

elliottcarlson 14y ago
It would shock me if they didn't have separate sections to account for just that. They (hopefully) aren't going to alienate the over 40 million user base they have when currently everyone is expecting to see games there. Productivity related desktop applications will not make sense to a large chunk of those users.
- ja2ke 14y ago
  It's brand diluting all the same, though. I guess they (probably correctly) see that they are doing a lot of things right with online purchases/downloads that other places aren't, but part of what I think they are doing right is having and keeping focus. Of course, people said the same thing when Amazon stopped just selling books, and that worked out alright for them.

gddr 14y ago

I hate Steam's DRM. People keep trying to convince people that it does not actually require an Internet connection and all that. Try using it for 6 months with a 0.2 Mbps connection that gets randomly cut every 5-10 seconds. It can literally take 10 minutes "Preparing to launch" a game. I really hope it doesn't expand to other software. The funniest part is: "Could not connect to Steam network. Start in Offline Mode?". You answer yes. "Error: could not connect to Steam network. This operation cannot be completed in Offline Mode". Maximum trollgaben.

thereallurch 14y ago
.2Mbps...maybe that's your real problem? DRM is here to stay, and internet drm is increasingly popular. Maybe time to upgrade your connection?
- Foy 14y ago
  It's barely even DRM... it's more like you just have to be logged in to Steam to launch online games or games that specifically require an Internet connection. I've started Steam in offline mode to play my singleplayer games whenever I don't have an internet connection quite often, and without issue. But I agree, his 0.2 MB/s connection is probably the main problem there. The issue isn't with Steam's download speeds... it's with his ISP's.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
    Yeah. Steam games aren't encrypted, for instance. They aren't locked to your computer. You can copy the game content files, re-install steam, copy them back, and you'll still have your games provided you can still log into Steam.
  - thereallurch 14y ago
    .2Mbps = .025MB/s
- emitstop 14y ago
  I'm sure if he was capable of upgrading his connection he would. A lot of places (even in the US) are still not equipped with high speed internet. Just a couple of years ago in Washington State I was still on dial up (albiet in a fairly rural area, but still not more than 45 minutes outside Portland, OR.).

seanalltogether 14y ago

I'm still unclear how you submit an app to their store? If I have an app with a mac and pc build that I want to submit, what do I do?

Foy 14y ago
I guess you could try reaching out to one of the many indie developers on Steam. Anyhow, what I suspect though, is that Steam isn't going to become some "app store" like the current Android and Apple ones, rife with fart apps and other useless things. I suspect it would stay highly curated. For example you don't see hundreds of amateur flash games on Steam, everything is cherry picked which makes for a great consumer experience. I know that any game I buy off Steam is going to be of high quality. This has the added benefit of not having any of those "scammer" apps around. You know, those apps that get purchased by any and all hacked Apple accounts just to get pushed to the top of the app store.
wtracy 14y ago
Right at the top of the FAQ page: http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/FAQ.php http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/FAQ.php "At the moment Steam is currently not accepting new game submissions as we transition to our new Steam Greenlight process." Previously, I believe you had to contact them and talk to a human being to start the submission process.

graylights 14y ago

Steam isn't just distribution but also offers a lot of features that could translate to apps: 1. Cloud based saves could become file/settings syncing 2. Steam Workshop for users to publish plugins and addons 3. Friends/groups/IM, invite to MP game could become invite to teleconference. 4. Authentication (OpenID) But if my app has file associations and user isn't logged on to steam. When they double click the associated filetype will they have to login to steam before my app can open it?