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[flagged]

halfnormalform 2y ago
The fact that very bad things happened to the Disappeared of Argentina makes me more concerned about the Disappeared of US, not less.
SauciestGNU 2y ago
First we're not allowed to call the detention camps "concentration camps" because there aren't ovens, now we can't call them "disappearances" because they're not getting thrown out of helicopters. Forget that people are getting shipped to a foreign torture slave camp from which nobody has been released with, and with no due process. I think this language policing may be because people don't want to allow opposition to these things, rather than out of honor for the dead. The way to honor the dead is to prevent the circumstances of their deaths from happening again. Which is exactly why we must stand up against the disappearances, the camps, the collaborators, the secret police.
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  This is exactly how it went in Russia. First it was, ‘Well, this isn’t that bad.’ Then, ‘Okay, sure, this isn’t great—but it’s not like we need to take action yet.’ And bit by bit, people kept rationalizing, minimizing, delaying—until suddenly it was, ‘Well… we’re f’d.’ That’s why we should speak up now. We’re already at the point where one side is openly arguing that due process isn’t guaranteed by the Constitution—because it's inconvenient. So how many rights do we have to give up before it’s acceptable to call it out? How many norms have to be broken? How many lines crossed? It's not like (other than Elon) they're going to show up in Hugo Boss suits one day and announce 'we have crossed the line to where you can criticize us now'.
  - LightHugger 2y ago
    I agree. But did you stand up against discrimination against innocent people under the banner of DEI? Did you stand up against government directed censorship campaigns on social media? The time to stand up was actually way before the extreme actions of the left inspired this extreme reactionary overcorrection from the right. You're supposed to stand up while you're still in power, not after you've lost it, it's a bit late. I still remember people insisting "but deplatforming works!" as they justified mass censorship of conservatives. Honestly if you have not stood up for the people you politically disagreed with as the noose tightened over the last 10 years you are part of the cause of this terrible over-correction. I can only hope that people start noticing this pattern and the inevitable next "correction" is not so extreme and we get some damping on the seemingly accelerating pendulum back and fourth.
    - sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
      The government never prevented anyone from speaking. Free speech was not violated when assholes were banned from platforms for being assholes. The owners of those platforms are not the government. https://leftycartoons.com/2018/08/01/i-have-been-silenced/ https://leftycartoons.com/2018/08/01/i-have-been-silenced/
      - exoverito 2y ago
        Read the Twitter files. The government was actively involved in censorship. Zuckerberg has also stated the FBI was demanding certain posts be removed / demoted, users shadow banned, etc. The CIA also infiltrates and subverts many organizations and platforms. Wouldn't be surprised if they operate here, they've definitely been manipulating Reddit for at least the past decade.
        mindslight 2y ago
        You wouldn't have to keep referencing a tenuous connection in The Twitter Files (cue: X-Files theme music) if you came around to seeing government and corpos as quite similar creatures on a spectrum of coercion rather than as completely disjoint and disparate things. So called "conservatives" were soooo close to being able to have this realization before they regained the power of the government, vested it all in a unitary execuking, and went back to seeing that extraconstitutional coercion as a feature (like many "progressives" had for ~10 years or so).
        LightHugger 2y ago
        Yes actually, i've been ranting about this for a long time, sufficiently powerful corporations are a form of government. I'm not conservative though despite being anti-dei so make of that what you will, i think a lot of people on the left are being lumped in with people on the right because we oppose the types of discrimination and racism now popular with the "left".
        2y ago
- breppp 2y ago
  because invalid comparisons weaken your argument and make you seem like you are oblivious of truth
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
alamortsubite 2y ago
Did you go down to Plaza de Mayo to speak to some of las Madres and ask how they feel about it, or where is your idea coming from?
insane_dreamer 2y ago
I agree getting shipped off to a concentration camp ("detention center") without resource to justice is not on par with getting thrown out of a helicopter, but it's starting to get pretty damn close. And Trump is only getting started. If he had 7 years like the Junta did, we might wind up with our own contingent of desaparecidos.
techpineapple 2y ago
Kidnapped off the streets? I think for “bodies burned in pits” I might prefer “slaughtered” or “butchered”. Disappeared sounds rather light for what we’re currently discussing to my ear.
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  "Disappeared" does strongly imply that those people are dead, because that's what usually to happen to people that the government decides to kidnap. But then, that's what usually happen to the people that the government decides to kidnap. So the OP's usage is perfectly correct, and the expectation that those people are dead should exist. Including the people that we know that were sent to the concentration camp, because despite nobody claiming it's an extermination camp the leading one does strongly tend to morph into the later.

[flagged]

The fact that very bad things happened to the Disappeared of Argentina makes me more concerned about the Disappeared of US, not less.

SauciestGNU 2y ago

First we're not allowed to call the detention camps "concentration camps" because there aren't ovens, now we can't call them "disappearances" because they're not getting thrown out of helicopters. Forget that people are getting shipped to a foreign torture slave camp from which nobody has been released with, and with no due process. I think this language policing may be because people don't want to allow opposition to these things, rather than out of honor for the dead. The way to honor the dead is to prevent the circumstances of their deaths from happening again. Which is exactly why we must stand up against the disappearances, the camps, the collaborators, the secret police.

_DeadFred_ 2y ago
This is exactly how it went in Russia. First it was, ‘Well, this isn’t that bad.’ Then, ‘Okay, sure, this isn’t great—but it’s not like we need to take action yet.’ And bit by bit, people kept rationalizing, minimizing, delaying—until suddenly it was, ‘Well… we’re f’d.’ That’s why we should speak up now. We’re already at the point where one side is openly arguing that due process isn’t guaranteed by the Constitution—because it's inconvenient. So how many rights do we have to give up before it’s acceptable to call it out? How many norms have to be broken? How many lines crossed? It's not like (other than Elon) they're going to show up in Hugo Boss suits one day and announce 'we have crossed the line to where you can criticize us now'.
- LightHugger 2y ago
  I agree. But did you stand up against discrimination against innocent people under the banner of DEI? Did you stand up against government directed censorship campaigns on social media? The time to stand up was actually way before the extreme actions of the left inspired this extreme reactionary overcorrection from the right. You're supposed to stand up while you're still in power, not after you've lost it, it's a bit late. I still remember people insisting "but deplatforming works!" as they justified mass censorship of conservatives. Honestly if you have not stood up for the people you politically disagreed with as the noose tightened over the last 10 years you are part of the cause of this terrible over-correction. I can only hope that people start noticing this pattern and the inevitable next "correction" is not so extreme and we get some damping on the seemingly accelerating pendulum back and fourth.
  - sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
    The government never prevented anyone from speaking. Free speech was not violated when assholes were banned from platforms for being assholes. The owners of those platforms are not the government. https://leftycartoons.com/2018/08/01/i-have-been-silenced/ https://leftycartoons.com/2018/08/01/i-have-been-silenced/
    - exoverito 2y ago
      Read the Twitter files. The government was actively involved in censorship. Zuckerberg has also stated the FBI was demanding certain posts be removed / demoted, users shadow banned, etc. The CIA also infiltrates and subverts many organizations and platforms. Wouldn't be surprised if they operate here, they've definitely been manipulating Reddit for at least the past decade.
      - mindslight 2y ago
        You wouldn't have to keep referencing a tenuous connection in The Twitter Files (cue: X-Files theme music) if you came around to seeing government and corpos as quite similar creatures on a spectrum of coercion rather than as completely disjoint and disparate things. So called "conservatives" were soooo close to being able to have this realization before they regained the power of the government, vested it all in a unitary execuking, and went back to seeing that extraconstitutional coercion as a feature (like many "progressives" had for ~10 years or so).
        LightHugger 2y ago
        Yes actually, i've been ranting about this for a long time, sufficiently powerful corporations are a form of government. I'm not conservative though despite being anti-dei so make of that what you will, i think a lot of people on the left are being lumped in with people on the right because we oppose the types of discrimination and racism now popular with the "left".
        2y ago
breppp 2y ago
because invalid comparisons weaken your argument and make you seem like you are oblivious of truth

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

alamortsubite 2y ago

Did you go down to Plaza de Mayo to speak to some of las Madres and ask how they feel about it, or where is your idea coming from?

insane_dreamer 2y ago

I agree getting shipped off to a concentration camp ("detention center") without resource to justice is not on par with getting thrown out of a helicopter, but it's starting to get pretty damn close. And Trump is only getting started. If he had 7 years like the Junta did, we might wind up with our own contingent of desaparecidos.

techpineapple 2y ago

Kidnapped off the streets? I think for “bodies burned in pits” I might prefer “slaughtered” or “butchered”. Disappeared sounds rather light for what we’re currently discussing to my ear.

marcosdumay 2y ago
"Disappeared" does strongly imply that those people are dead, because that's what usually to happen to people that the government decides to kidnap. But then, that's what usually happen to the people that the government decides to kidnap. So the OP's usage is perfectly correct, and the expectation that those people are dead should exist. Including the people that we know that were sent to the concentration camp, because despite nobody claiming it's an extermination camp the leading one does strongly tend to morph into the later.