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I don’t get your point. Should Americans not want to improve the position of America? Make America Great, so to speak?

by aqme28 2y ago

rayiner 2y ago
Maintaining an empire will destroy your society in the long run. What’s good for America in the long run is a country populated by americans, producing and consuming goods and services made by other americans within the umbrella of the same democratic polity.
- Pigalowda 2y ago
  Is that from the protocols? What would you know about society and empire? You’re just some dork on the internet too much.
- germinalphrase 2y ago
  “ a country populated by americans, producing and consuming goods and services made by other americans within the umbrella of the same democratic polity.” Which is a fine vision. Of course, Americans will have to consider why the goods on our shelves are so plentiful and so cheap.
- apawloski 2y ago
  All we are doing is making America weaker on the global scale while you cling to this fantasy. But to be clear, in this fantasy, do you acknowledge and accept that costs for Americans are going to up? Things are going to get more expensive across the board for Americans? Do you trust that this administration is competent enough to protect American companies?
- brendoelfrendo 2y ago
  [flagged]
- victorbjorklund 2y ago
  are you including immigrants from africa in your def of who these "americans" should be?
- dukeyukey 2y ago
  What's good for Americans (everyone really) is easy, open access to huge global markets, where economies of scale and differentiation can bring the most prosperity. There's no reason Americans, Brits, Swedes, Italians, Singaporeans and so on can't do this. The handful of bad (albeit powerful) actors shouldn't stop this.
fullshark 2y ago
The premise is the leaders of America since WW2 have been focused on things outside America for too long, hence "America First" and "Make America Great Again."
EthanHeilman 2y ago
I believe this poster is viewing this statement by another Hn poster as official confirmation that US foreign policy has been driven a single mission of subjugating other countries. I disagree with this view. The US is powerful on the international stage because the US is not an empire. US global power is based on the US being a mostly fair dealer. This is extraordinarily rare in world history and extremely powerful because it transforms a zero sum international competition game into a game where most countries are invested in the success of most of other countries. Most of human history follows the logic of "The further off from England the nearer is to France" and that is why most of human history is soaked in blood. Until this year, Europe didn't worry about war with the US. This meant that Europe didn't have to consider the risks that trading with the US or buying US weapons would weaken them relative to the US in a future conflict. ---- Melians: "And how pray, could it turn out as good for us to serve as for you to rule?" Athenians: "Because you would have the advantage of submitting before suffering the worst, and we should gain by not destroying you." Melians: "So [that] you would not consent to our being neutral, friends instead of enemies, but allies of neither side?" Athenians: "No; for your hostility cannot so much hurt us as your friendship will be an argument to our subjects of our weakness and your enmity of our power."
- kelipso 2y ago
  > The US is powerful on the international stage because the US is an empire. There, I fixed that for you.
  - EthanHeilman 2y ago
    Care to provide any evidence for your claim? At the very least put in the work to redefine the word empire to have such a broad and expansive definition that the US would qualify
    - kelipso 2y ago
      Multiple definitions I guess. NATO countries are very much part of the US empire but pretty much all the countries that we have military bases in would be part of a looser definition of the US empire. We can control international relations that most of Europe, Canada, Australia, Japan, and South Korea have to a fairly strong degree. I would say this along with us having had fairly strong influence in the economies of these countries historically and our ability to easily coordinate military operations with them make these countries part of the US empire.

I don’t get your point. Should Americans not want to improve the position of America? Make America Great, so to speak?

by aqme28 2y ago

I don’t get your point. Should Americans not want to improve the position of America? Make America Great, so to speak?

Maintaining an empire will destroy your society in the long run. What’s good for America in the long run is a country populated by americans, producing and consuming goods and services made by other americans within the umbrella of the same democratic polity.

Pigalowda 2y ago
Is that from the protocols? What would you know about society and empire? You’re just some dork on the internet too much.
germinalphrase 2y ago
“ a country populated by americans, producing and consuming goods and services made by other americans within the umbrella of the same democratic polity.” Which is a fine vision. Of course, Americans will have to consider why the goods on our shelves are so plentiful and so cheap.
apawloski 2y ago
All we are doing is making America weaker on the global scale while you cling to this fantasy. But to be clear, in this fantasy, do you acknowledge and accept that costs for Americans are going to up? Things are going to get more expensive across the board for Americans? Do you trust that this administration is competent enough to protect American companies?
brendoelfrendo 2y ago
[flagged]
victorbjorklund 2y ago
are you including immigrants from africa in your def of who these "americans" should be?
dukeyukey 2y ago
What's good for Americans (everyone really) is easy, open access to huge global markets, where economies of scale and differentiation can bring the most prosperity. There's no reason Americans, Brits, Swedes, Italians, Singaporeans and so on can't do this. The handful of bad (albeit powerful) actors shouldn't stop this.

fullshark 2y ago

The premise is the leaders of America since WW2 have been focused on things outside America for too long, hence "America First" and "Make America Great Again."

EthanHeilman 2y ago

I believe this poster is viewing this statement by another Hn poster as official confirmation that US foreign policy has been driven a single mission of subjugating other countries. I disagree with this view. The US is powerful on the international stage because the US is not an empire. US global power is based on the US being a mostly fair dealer. This is extraordinarily rare in world history and extremely powerful because it transforms a zero sum international competition game into a game where most countries are invested in the success of most of other countries. Most of human history follows the logic of "The further off from England the nearer is to France" and that is why most of human history is soaked in blood. Until this year, Europe didn't worry about war with the US. This meant that Europe didn't have to consider the risks that trading with the US or buying US weapons would weaken them relative to the US in a future conflict. ---- Melians: "And how pray, could it turn out as good for us to serve as for you to rule?" Athenians: "Because you would have the advantage of submitting before suffering the worst, and we should gain by not destroying you." Melians: "So [that] you would not consent to our being neutral, friends instead of enemies, but allies of neither side?" Athenians: "No; for your hostility cannot so much hurt us as your friendship will be an argument to our subjects of our weakness and your enmity of our power."

kelipso 2y ago
> The US is powerful on the international stage because the US is an empire. There, I fixed that for you.
- EthanHeilman 2y ago
  Care to provide any evidence for your claim? At the very least put in the work to redefine the word empire to have such a broad and expansive definition that the US would qualify
  - kelipso 2y ago
    Multiple definitions I guess. NATO countries are very much part of the US empire but pretty much all the countries that we have military bases in would be part of a looser definition of the US empire. We can control international relations that most of Europe, Canada, Australia, Japan, and South Korea have to a fairly strong degree. I would say this along with us having had fairly strong influence in the economies of these countries historically and our ability to easily coordinate military operations with them make these countries part of the US empire.