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What still baffles me is how people act like this was some kind of thoughtful decision. When you put someone incompetent in charge of a country, a company, or

What still baffles me is how people act like this was some kind of thoughtful decision. When you put someone incompetent in charge of a country, a company, or a sports team, collapse is inevitable, no exceptions. We’ve seen it play out over and over again because of stupid choices only driven by ego. Now it’s the US’s turn

varispeed 2y ago
I wonder how much more evidence American people need to see Trump for being a Russian asset and working against US interests. We are in treason territory.
- dmschulman 2y ago
  Russia noticeably absent from the global and per-country tariffs
  - ImJamal 2y ago
    Trump is allegedly planning on sanctions against Russia if they do not agree to his peace plan. Trump just added some additional sanctions on Russia for helping the Houthis. Sanctions seem worse than tariffs to me, but I'm not an expert. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-sanctions-russia-based-network-helping-yemens-houthis-2025-04-02/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-sanctions-russia-based-n...
    - varispeed 2y ago
      He didn't add sanctions on Russia, but on people dealing with Russia - that's a different thing. But notice how people talk now - Trump might say he is "planning" something against Russia and people take it as a proof that he is not an asset. They forget about concept of sacrificing something to gain advantage. If heat turns to much on Trump, they might let him disrupt something and then run propaganda that Trump isn't bent. Until he makes next move massively benefitting Putin. Seems like they can be doing this over and over and general public will see it as Trump just navigating difficult geopolitical landscape and that we should "trust the process". etc.
      - ImJamal 2y ago
        I am not sure why you are calling this out seeing how many people are hypothesising what is going to happen in this thread (economy destroyed, USD no longer reserve currency, etc). At least we have actual words to base what I wrote unlike all the other theories being thrown out in this thread.
- Bombthecat 2y ago
  Propaganda and lead poisoning did a number here. It's the perfect storm. I don't see an end to this
  - pc86 2y ago
    The best thing about your comment is you could be referring to Trump, or the GP. 9 out of 10 people who read your comment will say "hell yeah" and think you agree with them whether you do or not. Brilliant.
    - Bombthecat 2y ago
      The people who know what the effects of lead poisoning are, know :D
- random42_ 2y ago
  People that support him don't care about evidence. It's a cult following.
  - varispeed 2y ago
    Authorities focused on "classic" terrorism when monitoring online content and propaganda and got completely blindsided by the take over of the media. I find it particularly interesting how many popular US media people disseminate provably false Kremlin propaganda, as if someone flipped a switch. Fascinating times.
    - energy123 2y ago
      They knew about it back in 2014 but Obama didn't do enough about it.
- pc86 2y ago
  I can fully understand how people on both the left and the right could have ideological differences with Trump, how they can hate the way he interacts with people, think he's picking unqualified cronies for high level jobs, etc. I disagree with the last one but I can at least see how a reasonable person would get to that conclusion. "Trump is committing treason because he is instituting tariffs" or "Trump is a Russian asset" is not a position any reasonably intelligent person can come to without being blinded by partisanship. It's simply not a serious position to have.
  - jeremyjh 2y ago
    If Trump were a Russian asset, what could he possibly do to advance their interests more than what he is already doing? Hell, he is running Putin's playbook on Canada and Greenland. Did you vote for that? NATO is already over because none of our allies can expect Trump to honor our treaty obligations.
    - marcusverus 2y ago
      > If Trump were a Russian asset, what could he possibly do to advance their interests more than what he is already doing? Rhetoric is a poor substitute for actual evidence. Many moons ago, the fringe right used a similar argument to imply that Barack Obama was pro-ISIS. After his hasty withdrawal from Iraq, ISIS filled the power vacuum. Their "caliphate" grew for years and years, with no significant intervention from the US! At the time there wasn't a great answer to the question "If Obama were pro-ISIS, what could he possibly do to advance their interests more than he already has?". Yet (hopefully) we all know that this was simply bad faith, conspiratorial rhetoric. He was obviously not pro-ISIS, and there was no evidence whatsoever that he was. So how could people possibly have entertained such an idea? Easy--they already hated Barack Obama, so they were willing to give the conspiracy theory the benefit of the doubt. Do yourself a favor and apply the old tried and true standard: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It'll save you a good deal of embarrassment.
      - actionfromafar 2y ago
- rayiner 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - varispeed 2y ago
    Sure you can wrap it in fancy words, but most people who understand tariffs can see it for what it is.
    - rayiner 2y ago
      I’m not wrapping it in “fancy words.” I’m pointing out there is a real policy here, not something Trump made up to make Putin happy.
- bloomingeek 2y ago
  Well, enough of some Americans elected a convicted felon to the Oval Office, so...
- billy99k 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - yakshaving_jgt 2y ago
    > This combined with her running her own mail server and sending government emails through it should have landed her at least in jail for a couple of years. I'm guessing you're cool with the current regime's handling of sensitive information, yeah?
  - tpierce89 2y ago
    You're using "whataboutism" to point fingers and say one side is worse because of this or that. I could do the same thing and say Hillary's emails don't matter because Mike Waltz is out there using Gmail to conduct official business. https://www.axios.com/2025/04/01/mike-waltz-signal-gmail-security https://www.axios.com/2025/04/01/mike-waltz-signal-gmail-sec... To solve this we will all have to come together and accept that nobody on either side of American Politics are on the side of the working class. Instead of pointing fingers at democrats or republicans it is beyond time for us as Americans to come together and vote in people that will work for us as a collective regardless of what political affiliations they have.
  - ezst 2y ago
    See, that's what a 2-parties system does to one's brain. Trump can be bad, and many other things can be bad at the same time, without causation. If that's enough to distract from the bigger picture, you do not qualify as a voter.
  - mcphage 2y ago
    > But lets focus on someone trying to avoid war with Russia at all costs and attempting to make peace. So instead you want to give Putin the population of Ukraine to send in to get slaughtered as soldiers for his next invasion, and also send in Americans to get killed in Canada, Mexico, and/or Greenland? A++ very peaceful no notes.
- lucasRW 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - jprd 2y ago
    Without the Steele dossier, "Krasnov" has seen lots of attention. Now stir that with the absolute bizarro behavior of Trump around Russia/Putin. There may not be hard evidence of a fire, but there is so much smoke I choke on it.
    - willcipriano 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - 52-6F-62 2y ago
        Don’t smear kids in the hall this way. You realize they are Canadian, right?
        willcipriano 2y ago
        I'll have someone else respond for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0IWe11RWOM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0IWe11RWOM
    - lucasRW 2y ago
      It's not bizarre, it's pretty much in line with the stance that the West has had with Russia since the 90s, even with Bush junior in the early 2000s, before the rise of the neocons.
  - chipotle_coyote 2y ago
    You are spreading disinformation. The FBI investigations into Russia collusion were separate from Mueller's special counsel investigations, Mueller's work did not refer to the Steele Dossier at all. https://www.acslaw.org/projects/the-presidential-investigation-education-project/other-resources/key-findings-of-the-mueller-report/ https://www.acslaw.org/projects/the-presidential-investigati... Mueller's key findings include - Uncovering extensive criminal activity on the part of Trump associates - that Russia engaged in extensive attacks on the US election system in 2016 - that there were numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump campaign - that there were multiple episodes in which Trump engaged in deliberate obstruction during the investigation If you are taking Trump's "no collusion, complete exoneration" at his word, understand that he was lying. The report literally used the phrase "does not exonerate", and the only reason Trump was not indicted was because of the DOJ policy that you can't indict a sitting president.
- gruez 2y ago
  >and working against US interests. >We are in treason territory. Are we just going to start throwing "treason" accusations whenever a political opponent does the wrong thing? Being anti-free trade? Hurts US hegemony and makes US consumers pay more. Treason. Being pro-free trade? Sells out hard working americans while enriching corporations. Treason.
- dddrh 2y ago
  You could not have designed a more effective version of a “Manchurian Candidate” in my opinion. In fact, this administration has been so effective and brazen that if you were to try and write this as fiction, the scope and scale of what is occurring would be deemed unbelievable and would require toning down for the audience.
tgv 2y ago
> What still baffles me is how people act like this was some kind of thoughtful decision. I'm afraid it is. An unholy coalition of capitalist-anarchists and ultra-conservatives is the driving force behind it. They both want to reduce the influence of the government to a level as small as possible. That can only be done by dismantling the current federal government.
- DSingularity 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - SirFatty 2y ago
    You spend too much time listening to "experts" on TikTok.
  - SkipperCat 2y ago
    Fair point, but America is getting rid of the parts of government that provide stability across the country and world. I don't see any major changes to the US war machine. Shutting down USAID, cutting education, health benefits and dismantling the checks on executive power do nothing to curb what criticize. These actions actually destabilize and only give greater chance that what you dislike becomes more prevalent.
    - rayiner 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - bigyabai 2y ago
        A front for destabilization operations by whom? By the NSA, FBI and CIA is who. And no, none of those organizations will be held accountable for their abuses of international aid. Instead, we'll throw the baby out with the bathwater and blame the second-degree manslaughter on "state department" operations. USAID is not a shadowy cabal, it is not an element of the deep state. It can be corrected, even isolated from harm, by reorganizing their leadership to a board instead a administrative seat. You're just not arguing in good faith, and I really have to wonder why you're falling for talking points aimed at the lowest-intelligence voting bloc.
rayiner 2y ago
There’s been many people opposed to free trade for decades, on both sides like Pat Buchanan and Bernie Sanders. You can think those guys are incorrect in their analysis, but calling it “mindless” is just ridiculous. This tariff regime is simply a “minimal viable product” aimed at the idea of reducing structural trade deficits.
- tiahura 2y ago
  In economic terms, its a transfer from consumers of cheap goods to producers.
- dashundchen 2y ago
  Just posting something doesn't make it true. Don't be disingenuous by making it seems like Sanders supports this idiotic "plan" just because he spoke out in favor of certain tariffs or against parts of free trade in the past. In fact he called these tariffs along with Trump's plan to cut taxes on he wealthy an absurd transfer of wealth: > Trump's absurd idea to replace the income tax with a sales tax on imported goods would be the largest transfer of wealth in U.S. history. If enacted, taxes would go up by over $5,000 a year for a middle class family, while those in the top 0.1% would get a $1.5 million tax break. https://xcancel.com/BernieSanders/status/1850933809384137106 https://xcancel.com/BernieSanders/status/1850933809384137106 And Trump's economic plan "insane" > https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/bernie-sanders-says-eliminating-federal-income-taxes-would-be-insane-economics-full-interview-222790213801 https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/bernie-sanders-... Many agree, most polls have Trump far underwater in his handling of the economy. > Respondents gave Trump poor marks for his handling of the economy, which 37% approved of, with 30% approving of his work to address the high cost of living, an issue that also dogged Biden. https://www.reuters.com/default/trump-approval-falls-43-lowest-since-returning-office-reutersipsos-poll-finds-2025-04-02/ https://www.reuters.com/default/trump-approval-falls-43-lowe...
  - rayiner 2y ago
    Sanders was a protectionist until it became seen as treasonous in Democrat circles: https://sandersinstitute.org/event/rep-bernie-sanders-opposes-north-american-free-trade-agreement-nafta https://sandersinstitute.org/event/rep-bernie-sanders-oppose...
rtkwe 2y ago
For extra sauce on the "they're barely even thinking about this" cake someone figured out where those crazy "Tariff Charged" numbers were coming from, they're taking the trade deficit and dividing by the total imports from that country. https://imgur.com/a/jBTiz7T https://imgur.com/a/jBTiz7T edit: The White House deputy press secretary posted their formula and it is just trade_deficit/2*total_imports per country just dressed up with a lot of fancy language to make it seem smarter but the two extra terms are constants. https://x.com/KushDesai47/status/1907618136444067901 https://x.com/KushDesai47/status/1907618136444067901
- dsco 2y ago
  I've seen this comment a couple of times. What would be a better way of doing it? Also consider that if they would've had a more complex formula, what would be the cost of needing to explain it publicly? Would they then need to start defending the fairness of each tariff vs doing it the simple way and having a single formula across the board?
  - rtkwe 2y ago
    Consider actual tariffs? A trade deficit isn't a tariff or trade barrier it's just the natural flow of commerce from them selling more stuff than they buy. They're dressing it up like these countries are charging US imports these crazy tariffs but they're not at all, especially not across the board. That's imminently doable but would require more work than plugging in 2 numbers from the US trade delegation website so we get this complete lie instead. Trump has had it in his head for ages that trade deficit == tariff (or is lying about that to make his supporters swallow this as the US just fighting back) and it's a completely broken understanding of trade.
    - rayiner 2y ago
      > Consider actual tariffs? A trade deficit isn't a tariff or trade barrier it's just the natural flow of commerce from them selling more stuff than they buy That’s just defining what a trade deficit is, it doesn’t explain why trade deficits arise. For example, other countries have cheaper labor and laxer environmental regulations. Simply looking at the country’s tariff rates on U.S. goods doesn’t account for the whole picture.
vixen99 2y ago
I'm really do appreciate all those on HN who comment either for or against these tariff measures by including cogent arguments and relevant facts. As against ...
- Trumpion 2y ago
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stevev 2y ago
[flagged]
- Trumpion 2y ago
  [dead]
- RobotCaleb 2y ago
  Have I missed the reports of all of these people being charged with fraud?
- brahma-dev 2y ago
  https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/18/upshot/doge-contracts-musk-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/18/upshot/doge-contracts-mus... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/elon-musk-doge-false-claim-billion-dollar-national-park-survey/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/elon-musk-doge-false-claim-bill... https://fortune.com/2025/03/13/doge-saved-federal-government-115-billion-experts-doubt-figures-elon-musk/ https://fortune.com/2025/03/13/doge-saved-federal-government... https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-website-now-saved-105-billion-backtracked-earlier/story?id=119408347 https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-website-now-saved-105-billion... https://fortune.com/2025/04/02/doge-claimed-contract-savings-24-8-billion-overstated-bank-of-america/ https://fortune.com/2025/04/02/doge-claimed-contract-savings... https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/03/us/politics/doge-musk-contracts-wall.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/03/us/politics/doge-musk-con...
- afavour 2y ago
  > So many are quick to accept media narratives without questioning or verifying the facts for themselves. > All the findings? Publicly available online. You surely realise you are doing exactly what you criticise here? You are accepting a government propaganda narrative unquestioningly without verifying any facts. The DOGE claims have been proven false numerous times. Get off your high horse and do some reading.
  - stevev 2y ago
    Nice opinion.
nopakos 2y ago
> What still baffles me is how people act like this was some kind of thoughtful decision Maybe it's the "Why not inject disinfectant to beat covid" [1] for the economy. But this time nobody around him said no. (note: added around him) [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177
- Henchman21 2y ago
  Loads of people are actually actively saying no. Those in power have goals that don’t comport with listening.
- rayiner 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - grey-area 2y ago
    There are other solutions to trade deficits. To cure trade deficits imposing tariffs is rather like injecting bleach yes.
    - rayiner 2y ago
      The nerds have been talking about fixing trade deficits for decades. It keeps getting bigger. Time for the jocks to give it a try.
      - RajT88 2y ago
        Yes, let's let the jocks into the chemistry lab. This will end well.
      - seattle_spring 2y ago
        Interesting analogy, coming from HN's own personal version of Ian Miles Cheong.
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 2y ago
wyldfire 2y ago
The clearest evidence of incompetence for all to see is Trump's cabinet from his first term. If they're actively speaking out against him, something is seriously wrong. > Rex Tillerson on Trump: ‘Undisciplined,’ ‘doesn’t like to read' and tries to do illegal things Sadly, people didn't vote for Trump so much as they voted for "anti-woke." Or: I am tired of being looked down on and this is my revenge.
JohnHaugeland 2y ago
> What still baffles me is how people act like this was some kind of thoughtful decision. It is. This is being done as part of a plan, with full intent.
RankingMember 2y ago
This is what forced me vastly curtail my news consumption for the most part. I can only take so much breathless reporting about the "strategy" of the Trump administration, when it's plainly sheer incompetence with the winds of malice in the background. There is no actual plan to "make America great again", it's non-stop incompetent pandering to a base that just wants others to suffer.
- dboreham 2y ago
  This has been termed "sane washing" and is extremely irritating: smart media people reverse engineering a vaguely plausible logic from the regime's actions when on closer inspection they never gave said logic as their reasoning.
aswanson 2y ago
Plenty of us knew the outcome would be catastrophic. We were outvoted by the idiots.
- gadflyinyoureye 2y ago
  Also you were outvoted because the Dems didn't have a reasonable alternative. Mrs Harris was incompetent. She was a poor public speaker, which further made her look incompetent given her previous role as a prosecutor. Further, the Dems didn't offer her as part of an open primary. They forced her on everyone. The US presently suffers from future shock and stilted political process. We need more parties and better voting options both in the HR department and the mechanical process like ranked voting. Since both parties benefit from the status quo, we shall see no change.
  - aswanson 2y ago
    My cat is a reasonable alternative to the current potus. Sometimes, the people get what they deserve.
  - unethical_ban 2y ago
    Agree with paragraph 2. Paragraph 3 is a cynicism I don't yet fully buy: There are enough liberals and so-called Democrats that care about this country that perhaps they will be open to ranked-preference voting and the opening of our "political markets" to save the country. Partial on paragraph 1. Biden should have left a lot sooner, and Harris, loyal to the president and unable/unwilling to break with him on anything of value, should not have been the "pick". But she was and is infinitely better for this country than Trump in every manner, unless we're into accelerationism. I don't think she is incompetent. She was unwilling.
  - mr_toad 2y ago
    > Further, the Dems didn't offer her as part of an open primary. The only people promulgating this red herring would never have voted for her anyway. > She was a poor public speaker, Compared to Trump? A man known for his incoherent ramblings?
stego-tech 2y ago
It’s been our turn for a hot minute. Republicans have been blowing up the status quo since Reagan, and the Democrats enforcing austerity since Clinton. American corporate leadership is excellent at hitting quarter-after-quarter KPIs for bonuses and share price growth, but there’s ample data it has all come at the expense of workers - increased precarity, decreased wages, increased costs of everything, as the country is plundered down to its core and sold off piecemeal. Post-Carter United States (and South Korea, and Japan, and the UK, and much of the developed world in general) is a prime example of the follies of prioritizing numbers-on-a-spreadsheet growth in the short term, over a balanced and robust domestic economic engine that ensures a healthy, happy, stable populace that wants to have kids (since they have the money and time to be good parents).
- energy123 2y ago
  Clinton was the last fiscally responsible President, using a strong real economy to pay down some of the debt which had service costs equal to the costs of US federal debt today. You can't criticize that given how high the debt was in the 1990s.
  - stego-tech 2y ago
    I can when he did so not through raising revenue, but by gutting social safety net programs. If you have a debt problem, you need to both raise income and cut unnecessary spending. Clinton - and every Democrat since Carter, really - only ever did the latter, and always targeting the working class for spending cuts as opposed to the corporate or wealthy classes. God forbid we curtail subsidies to fossil fuel companies or sugar producers or big box stores with a disproportionate amount of workers on government assistance programs, god forbid we stop bailing out failed banks or bankrupt private enterprise, let’s instead make sure poor people can’t have housing and children can’t have three meals a day. Throwing large numbers around without examining how those numbers were achieved is what politicians and despots bank on the populace trusting, because once you know how those figures are reached, you’re confronted with how the system really works and suddenly have a distaste for it.
  - dragonwriter 2y ago
dboreham 2y ago
In this case it's much much worse than just incompetent. You're looking at someone who takes an evil delight it doing the opposite of what smart people say to do, and destroying stuff.
threetonesun 2y ago
It seems thoughtful if you or your children or your friends are heavily invested in crypto and think removing the USD as the primary currency of trade is a good idea. I know it's a Republican joke to blame evil meddling globalists for the US's problems but it sure seems like a bunch of people looking to ruin the US for their own global ambitions are running the show right now.
- Sharlin 2y ago
  Every accusation is an admission when it comes to Republicans.
bitshiftfaced 2y ago
> What still baffles me is how people act like this was some kind of thoughtful decision. I'm no economist, but I can see that there are second order effects that this addresses that other systems would lack. 1) Tit for tat on tariffs doesn't work because of other barriers to trade such as currency manipulation, subsidies, regulations, etc. 2) We've learned from games such as iterated prisoner's dilemma that strategies that succeed are ones that clearly communicate how they'll act and respond. A clear formula such as deficit/imports accomplished this. Countries know exactly what they must address in order to access US markets. 3) You can end up playing whack a mole with countries in that they can set up shop in other countries to bypass tariffs in their own country. By applying a consistent formula to all countries, you no longer have to play whack a mole.
- telllikeitisguy 2y ago
  Then why not just set a flat 10%? Why gut the industrial subsidies? Why gut state capacity?
sebazzz 2y ago
Luckily the US has quite some momentum so it can be hoped the damage is limited before the next election so it can then be reverted.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

varispeed 2y ago

I wonder how much more evidence American people need to see Trump for being a Russian asset and working against US interests. We are in treason territory.

dmschulman 2y ago
Russia noticeably absent from the global and per-country tariffs
- ImJamal 2y ago
  Trump is allegedly planning on sanctions against Russia if they do not agree to his peace plan. Trump just added some additional sanctions on Russia for helping the Houthis. Sanctions seem worse than tariffs to me, but I'm not an expert. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-sanctions-russia-based-network-helping-yemens-houthis-2025-04-02/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-sanctions-russia-based-n...
  - varispeed 2y ago
    He didn't add sanctions on Russia, but on people dealing with Russia - that's a different thing. But notice how people talk now - Trump might say he is "planning" something against Russia and people take it as a proof that he is not an asset. They forget about concept of sacrificing something to gain advantage. If heat turns to much on Trump, they might let him disrupt something and then run propaganda that Trump isn't bent. Until he makes next move massively benefitting Putin. Seems like they can be doing this over and over and general public will see it as Trump just navigating difficult geopolitical landscape and that we should "trust the process". etc.
    - ImJamal 2y ago
      I am not sure why you are calling this out seeing how many people are hypothesising what is going to happen in this thread (economy destroyed, USD no longer reserve currency, etc). At least we have actual words to base what I wrote unlike all the other theories being thrown out in this thread.
Bombthecat 2y ago
Propaganda and lead poisoning did a number here. It's the perfect storm. I don't see an end to this
- pc86 2y ago
  The best thing about your comment is you could be referring to Trump, or the GP. 9 out of 10 people who read your comment will say "hell yeah" and think you agree with them whether you do or not. Brilliant.
  - Bombthecat 2y ago
    The people who know what the effects of lead poisoning are, know :D
random42_ 2y ago
People that support him don't care about evidence. It's a cult following.
- varispeed 2y ago
  Authorities focused on "classic" terrorism when monitoring online content and propaganda and got completely blindsided by the take over of the media. I find it particularly interesting how many popular US media people disseminate provably false Kremlin propaganda, as if someone flipped a switch. Fascinating times.
  - energy123 2y ago
    They knew about it back in 2014 but Obama didn't do enough about it.
pc86 2y ago
I can fully understand how people on both the left and the right could have ideological differences with Trump, how they can hate the way he interacts with people, think he's picking unqualified cronies for high level jobs, etc. I disagree with the last one but I can at least see how a reasonable person would get to that conclusion. "Trump is committing treason because he is instituting tariffs" or "Trump is a Russian asset" is not a position any reasonably intelligent person can come to without being blinded by partisanship. It's simply not a serious position to have.
- jeremyjh 2y ago
  If Trump were a Russian asset, what could he possibly do to advance their interests more than what he is already doing? Hell, he is running Putin's playbook on Canada and Greenland. Did you vote for that? NATO is already over because none of our allies can expect Trump to honor our treaty obligations.
  - marcusverus 2y ago
    > If Trump were a Russian asset, what could he possibly do to advance their interests more than what he is already doing? Rhetoric is a poor substitute for actual evidence. Many moons ago, the fringe right used a similar argument to imply that Barack Obama was pro-ISIS. After his hasty withdrawal from Iraq, ISIS filled the power vacuum. Their "caliphate" grew for years and years, with no significant intervention from the US! At the time there wasn't a great answer to the question "If Obama were pro-ISIS, what could he possibly do to advance their interests more than he already has?". Yet (hopefully) we all know that this was simply bad faith, conspiratorial rhetoric. He was obviously not pro-ISIS, and there was no evidence whatsoever that he was. So how could people possibly have entertained such an idea? Easy--they already hated Barack Obama, so they were willing to give the conspiracy theory the benefit of the doubt. Do yourself a favor and apply the old tried and true standard: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It'll save you a good deal of embarrassment.
    - actionfromafar 2y ago
rayiner 2y ago
[flagged]
- varispeed 2y ago
  Sure you can wrap it in fancy words, but most people who understand tariffs can see it for what it is.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    I’m not wrapping it in “fancy words.” I’m pointing out there is a real policy here, not something Trump made up to make Putin happy.
bloomingeek 2y ago
Well, enough of some Americans elected a convicted felon to the Oval Office, so...
billy99k 2y ago
[flagged]
- yakshaving_jgt 2y ago
  > This combined with her running her own mail server and sending government emails through it should have landed her at least in jail for a couple of years. I'm guessing you're cool with the current regime's handling of sensitive information, yeah?
- tpierce89 2y ago
  You're using "whataboutism" to point fingers and say one side is worse because of this or that. I could do the same thing and say Hillary's emails don't matter because Mike Waltz is out there using Gmail to conduct official business. https://www.axios.com/2025/04/01/mike-waltz-signal-gmail-security https://www.axios.com/2025/04/01/mike-waltz-signal-gmail-sec... To solve this we will all have to come together and accept that nobody on either side of American Politics are on the side of the working class. Instead of pointing fingers at democrats or republicans it is beyond time for us as Americans to come together and vote in people that will work for us as a collective regardless of what political affiliations they have.
- ezst 2y ago
  See, that's what a 2-parties system does to one's brain. Trump can be bad, and many other things can be bad at the same time, without causation. If that's enough to distract from the bigger picture, you do not qualify as a voter.
- mcphage 2y ago
  > But lets focus on someone trying to avoid war with Russia at all costs and attempting to make peace. So instead you want to give Putin the population of Ukraine to send in to get slaughtered as soldiers for his next invasion, and also send in Americans to get killed in Canada, Mexico, and/or Greenland? A++ very peaceful no notes.
lucasRW 2y ago
[flagged]
- jprd 2y ago
  Without the Steele dossier, "Krasnov" has seen lots of attention. Now stir that with the absolute bizarro behavior of Trump around Russia/Putin. There may not be hard evidence of a fire, but there is so much smoke I choke on it.
  - willcipriano 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - 52-6F-62 2y ago
      Don’t smear kids in the hall this way. You realize they are Canadian, right?
      - willcipriano 2y ago
        I'll have someone else respond for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0IWe11RWOM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0IWe11RWOM
  - lucasRW 2y ago
    It's not bizarre, it's pretty much in line with the stance that the West has had with Russia since the 90s, even with Bush junior in the early 2000s, before the rise of the neocons.
- chipotle_coyote 2y ago
  You are spreading disinformation. The FBI investigations into Russia collusion were separate from Mueller's special counsel investigations, Mueller's work did not refer to the Steele Dossier at all. https://www.acslaw.org/projects/the-presidential-investigation-education-project/other-resources/key-findings-of-the-mueller-report/ https://www.acslaw.org/projects/the-presidential-investigati... Mueller's key findings include - Uncovering extensive criminal activity on the part of Trump associates - that Russia engaged in extensive attacks on the US election system in 2016 - that there were numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump campaign - that there were multiple episodes in which Trump engaged in deliberate obstruction during the investigation If you are taking Trump's "no collusion, complete exoneration" at his word, understand that he was lying. The report literally used the phrase "does not exonerate", and the only reason Trump was not indicted was because of the DOJ policy that you can't indict a sitting president.
gruez 2y ago
>and working against US interests. >We are in treason territory. Are we just going to start throwing "treason" accusations whenever a political opponent does the wrong thing? Being anti-free trade? Hurts US hegemony and makes US consumers pay more. Treason. Being pro-free trade? Sells out hard working americans while enriching corporations. Treason.
dddrh 2y ago
You could not have designed a more effective version of a “Manchurian Candidate” in my opinion. In fact, this administration has been so effective and brazen that if you were to try and write this as fiction, the scope and scale of what is occurring would be deemed unbelievable and would require toning down for the audience.

tgv 2y ago

> What still baffles me is how people act like this was some kind of thoughtful decision. I'm afraid it is. An unholy coalition of capitalist-anarchists and ultra-conservatives is the driving force behind it. They both want to reduce the influence of the government to a level as small as possible. That can only be done by dismantling the current federal government.

DSingularity 2y ago
[flagged]
- SirFatty 2y ago
  You spend too much time listening to "experts" on TikTok.
- SkipperCat 2y ago
  Fair point, but America is getting rid of the parts of government that provide stability across the country and world. I don't see any major changes to the US war machine. Shutting down USAID, cutting education, health benefits and dismantling the checks on executive power do nothing to curb what criticize. These actions actually destabilize and only give greater chance that what you dislike becomes more prevalent.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - bigyabai 2y ago
      A front for destabilization operations by whom? By the NSA, FBI and CIA is who. And no, none of those organizations will be held accountable for their abuses of international aid. Instead, we'll throw the baby out with the bathwater and blame the second-degree manslaughter on "state department" operations. USAID is not a shadowy cabal, it is not an element of the deep state. It can be corrected, even isolated from harm, by reorganizing their leadership to a board instead a administrative seat. You're just not arguing in good faith, and I really have to wonder why you're falling for talking points aimed at the lowest-intelligence voting bloc.

rayiner 2y ago

There’s been many people opposed to free trade for decades, on both sides like Pat Buchanan and Bernie Sanders. You can think those guys are incorrect in their analysis, but calling it “mindless” is just ridiculous. This tariff regime is simply a “minimal viable product” aimed at the idea of reducing structural trade deficits.

tiahura 2y ago
In economic terms, its a transfer from consumers of cheap goods to producers.
dashundchen 2y ago
Just posting something doesn't make it true. Don't be disingenuous by making it seems like Sanders supports this idiotic "plan" just because he spoke out in favor of certain tariffs or against parts of free trade in the past. In fact he called these tariffs along with Trump's plan to cut taxes on he wealthy an absurd transfer of wealth: > Trump's absurd idea to replace the income tax with a sales tax on imported goods would be the largest transfer of wealth in U.S. history. If enacted, taxes would go up by over $5,000 a year for a middle class family, while those in the top 0.1% would get a $1.5 million tax break. https://xcancel.com/BernieSanders/status/1850933809384137106 https://xcancel.com/BernieSanders/status/1850933809384137106 And Trump's economic plan "insane" > https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/bernie-sanders-says-eliminating-federal-income-taxes-would-be-insane-economics-full-interview-222790213801 https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/bernie-sanders-... Many agree, most polls have Trump far underwater in his handling of the economy. > Respondents gave Trump poor marks for his handling of the economy, which 37% approved of, with 30% approving of his work to address the high cost of living, an issue that also dogged Biden. https://www.reuters.com/default/trump-approval-falls-43-lowest-since-returning-office-reutersipsos-poll-finds-2025-04-02/ https://www.reuters.com/default/trump-approval-falls-43-lowe...
- rayiner 2y ago
  Sanders was a protectionist until it became seen as treasonous in Democrat circles: https://sandersinstitute.org/event/rep-bernie-sanders-opposes-north-american-free-trade-agreement-nafta https://sandersinstitute.org/event/rep-bernie-sanders-oppose...

rtkwe 2y ago

For extra sauce on the "they're barely even thinking about this" cake someone figured out where those crazy "Tariff Charged" numbers were coming from, they're taking the trade deficit and dividing by the total imports from that country. https://imgur.com/a/jBTiz7T https://imgur.com/a/jBTiz7T edit: The White House deputy press secretary posted their formula and it is just trade_deficit/2*total_imports per country just dressed up with a lot of fancy language to make it seem smarter but the two extra terms are constants. https://x.com/KushDesai47/status/1907618136444067901 https://x.com/KushDesai47/status/1907618136444067901

dsco 2y ago
I've seen this comment a couple of times. What would be a better way of doing it? Also consider that if they would've had a more complex formula, what would be the cost of needing to explain it publicly? Would they then need to start defending the fairness of each tariff vs doing it the simple way and having a single formula across the board?
- rtkwe 2y ago
  Consider actual tariffs? A trade deficit isn't a tariff or trade barrier it's just the natural flow of commerce from them selling more stuff than they buy. They're dressing it up like these countries are charging US imports these crazy tariffs but they're not at all, especially not across the board. That's imminently doable but would require more work than plugging in 2 numbers from the US trade delegation website so we get this complete lie instead. Trump has had it in his head for ages that trade deficit == tariff (or is lying about that to make his supporters swallow this as the US just fighting back) and it's a completely broken understanding of trade.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    > Consider actual tariffs? A trade deficit isn't a tariff or trade barrier it's just the natural flow of commerce from them selling more stuff than they buy That’s just defining what a trade deficit is, it doesn’t explain why trade deficits arise. For example, other countries have cheaper labor and laxer environmental regulations. Simply looking at the country’s tariff rates on U.S. goods doesn’t account for the whole picture.

vixen99 2y ago

I'm really do appreciate all those on HN who comment either for or against these tariff measures by including cogent arguments and relevant facts. As against ...

Trumpion 2y ago
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stevev 2y ago

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Trumpion 2y ago
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RobotCaleb 2y ago
Have I missed the reports of all of these people being charged with fraud?
brahma-dev 2y ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/18/upshot/doge-contracts-musk-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/18/upshot/doge-contracts-mus... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/elon-musk-doge-false-claim-billion-dollar-national-park-survey/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/elon-musk-doge-false-claim-bill... https://fortune.com/2025/03/13/doge-saved-federal-government-115-billion-experts-doubt-figures-elon-musk/ https://fortune.com/2025/03/13/doge-saved-federal-government... https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-website-now-saved-105-billion-backtracked-earlier/story?id=119408347 https://abcnews.go.com/US/doge-website-now-saved-105-billion... https://fortune.com/2025/04/02/doge-claimed-contract-savings-24-8-billion-overstated-bank-of-america/ https://fortune.com/2025/04/02/doge-claimed-contract-savings... https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/03/us/politics/doge-musk-contracts-wall.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/03/us/politics/doge-musk-con...
afavour 2y ago
> So many are quick to accept media narratives without questioning or verifying the facts for themselves. > All the findings? Publicly available online. You surely realise you are doing exactly what you criticise here? You are accepting a government propaganda narrative unquestioningly without verifying any facts. The DOGE claims have been proven false numerous times. Get off your high horse and do some reading.
- stevev 2y ago
  Nice opinion.

nopakos 2y ago

> What still baffles me is how people act like this was some kind of thoughtful decision Maybe it's the "Why not inject disinfectant to beat covid" [1] for the economy. But this time nobody around him said no. (note: added around him) [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177

Henchman21 2y ago
Loads of people are actually actively saying no. Those in power have goals that don’t comport with listening.
rayiner 2y ago
[flagged]
- grey-area 2y ago
  There are other solutions to trade deficits. To cure trade deficits imposing tariffs is rather like injecting bleach yes.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    The nerds have been talking about fixing trade deficits for decades. It keeps getting bigger. Time for the jocks to give it a try.
    - RajT88 2y ago
      Yes, let's let the jocks into the chemistry lab. This will end well.
    - seattle_spring 2y ago
      Interesting analogy, coming from HN's own personal version of Ian Miles Cheong.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 2y ago

wyldfire 2y ago

The clearest evidence of incompetence for all to see is Trump's cabinet from his first term. If they're actively speaking out against him, something is seriously wrong. > Rex Tillerson on Trump: ‘Undisciplined,’ ‘doesn’t like to read' and tries to do illegal things Sadly, people didn't vote for Trump so much as they voted for "anti-woke." Or: I am tired of being looked down on and this is my revenge.

JohnHaugeland 2y ago

> What still baffles me is how people act like this was some kind of thoughtful decision. It is. This is being done as part of a plan, with full intent.

RankingMember 2y ago

This is what forced me vastly curtail my news consumption for the most part. I can only take so much breathless reporting about the "strategy" of the Trump administration, when it's plainly sheer incompetence with the winds of malice in the background. There is no actual plan to "make America great again", it's non-stop incompetent pandering to a base that just wants others to suffer.

dboreham 2y ago
This has been termed "sane washing" and is extremely irritating: smart media people reverse engineering a vaguely plausible logic from the regime's actions when on closer inspection they never gave said logic as their reasoning.

aswanson 2y ago

Plenty of us knew the outcome would be catastrophic. We were outvoted by the idiots.

gadflyinyoureye 2y ago
Also you were outvoted because the Dems didn't have a reasonable alternative. Mrs Harris was incompetent. She was a poor public speaker, which further made her look incompetent given her previous role as a prosecutor. Further, the Dems didn't offer her as part of an open primary. They forced her on everyone. The US presently suffers from future shock and stilted political process. We need more parties and better voting options both in the HR department and the mechanical process like ranked voting. Since both parties benefit from the status quo, we shall see no change.
- aswanson 2y ago
  My cat is a reasonable alternative to the current potus. Sometimes, the people get what they deserve.
- unethical_ban 2y ago
  Agree with paragraph 2. Paragraph 3 is a cynicism I don't yet fully buy: There are enough liberals and so-called Democrats that care about this country that perhaps they will be open to ranked-preference voting and the opening of our "political markets" to save the country. Partial on paragraph 1. Biden should have left a lot sooner, and Harris, loyal to the president and unable/unwilling to break with him on anything of value, should not have been the "pick". But she was and is infinitely better for this country than Trump in every manner, unless we're into accelerationism. I don't think she is incompetent. She was unwilling.
- mr_toad 2y ago
  > Further, the Dems didn't offer her as part of an open primary. The only people promulgating this red herring would never have voted for her anyway. > She was a poor public speaker, Compared to Trump? A man known for his incoherent ramblings?

stego-tech 2y ago

It’s been our turn for a hot minute. Republicans have been blowing up the status quo since Reagan, and the Democrats enforcing austerity since Clinton. American corporate leadership is excellent at hitting quarter-after-quarter KPIs for bonuses and share price growth, but there’s ample data it has all come at the expense of workers - increased precarity, decreased wages, increased costs of everything, as the country is plundered down to its core and sold off piecemeal. Post-Carter United States (and South Korea, and Japan, and the UK, and much of the developed world in general) is a prime example of the follies of prioritizing numbers-on-a-spreadsheet growth in the short term, over a balanced and robust domestic economic engine that ensures a healthy, happy, stable populace that wants to have kids (since they have the money and time to be good parents).

energy123 2y ago
Clinton was the last fiscally responsible President, using a strong real economy to pay down some of the debt which had service costs equal to the costs of US federal debt today. You can't criticize that given how high the debt was in the 1990s.
- stego-tech 2y ago
  I can when he did so not through raising revenue, but by gutting social safety net programs. If you have a debt problem, you need to both raise income and cut unnecessary spending. Clinton - and every Democrat since Carter, really - only ever did the latter, and always targeting the working class for spending cuts as opposed to the corporate or wealthy classes. God forbid we curtail subsidies to fossil fuel companies or sugar producers or big box stores with a disproportionate amount of workers on government assistance programs, god forbid we stop bailing out failed banks or bankrupt private enterprise, let’s instead make sure poor people can’t have housing and children can’t have three meals a day. Throwing large numbers around without examining how those numbers were achieved is what politicians and despots bank on the populace trusting, because once you know how those figures are reached, you’re confronted with how the system really works and suddenly have a distaste for it.
- dragonwriter 2y ago

dboreham 2y ago

In this case it's much much worse than just incompetent. You're looking at someone who takes an evil delight it doing the opposite of what smart people say to do, and destroying stuff.

threetonesun 2y ago

It seems thoughtful if you or your children or your friends are heavily invested in crypto and think removing the USD as the primary currency of trade is a good idea. I know it's a Republican joke to blame evil meddling globalists for the US's problems but it sure seems like a bunch of people looking to ruin the US for their own global ambitions are running the show right now.

Sharlin 2y ago
Every accusation is an admission when it comes to Republicans.

bitshiftfaced 2y ago

> What still baffles me is how people act like this was some kind of thoughtful decision. I'm no economist, but I can see that there are second order effects that this addresses that other systems would lack. 1) Tit for tat on tariffs doesn't work because of other barriers to trade such as currency manipulation, subsidies, regulations, etc. 2) We've learned from games such as iterated prisoner's dilemma that strategies that succeed are ones that clearly communicate how they'll act and respond. A clear formula such as deficit/imports accomplished this. Countries know exactly what they must address in order to access US markets. 3) You can end up playing whack a mole with countries in that they can set up shop in other countries to bypass tariffs in their own country. By applying a consistent formula to all countries, you no longer have to play whack a mole.

telllikeitisguy 2y ago
Then why not just set a flat 10%? Why gut the industrial subsidies? Why gut state capacity?

sebazzz 2y ago

Luckily the US has quite some momentum so it can be hoped the damage is limited before the next election so it can then be reverted.

deleted 2y ago

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