6 ms·

I'm from Pakistan, and the solution to 'it's difficult for people to get ID' was so simple even 3rd world poor illiterate country could do it: just go to them i

I'm from Pakistan, and the solution to 'it's difficult for people to get ID' was so simple even 3rd world poor illiterate country could do it: just go to them instead. Our ID department has buses with computers and cameras/fingerprint machines on them, they go to remote villages and stuff and take everyone's bio data, then return a few weeks later and give everyone their cards. There is literally NO valid excuse for NOT implementing voter ID. NONE. If we can do it, the richest country in the world can do it. Such a pathetic hill for American Democratic party to die on.

pasc1878 2y ago
The problem in the US is they are not doing this if anything they are reducing the number of places you can get an ID.
- ryzvonusef 2y ago
  The US is not a monolith, it's a collection of 50 states.... Democratic states collect taxes and implement policy independently, they CAN do this, at least in their own areas. Start there first!
  - aredox 2y ago
    https://youtu.be/rHFOwlMCdto?si=OjoxCfE1noxvw3Fz https://youtu.be/rHFOwlMCdto?si=OjoxCfE1noxvw3Fz
    - ryzvonusef 2y ago
      I have been a John Oliver viewer from the first season, and my comment will be the same as what I said 9 years ago: This is bullship. Start small, but START. Start from Democrats accepting what every LEFT leaning person the rest of the world accepts: Photo ID is necessary, not to reduce voter fraud or whatever, but necessary to increase TRUST in the system. It's a cost, just pay it. Yes you will lose 'face' to republicans, don't care. Start small, start with free/cheap photo ID in deep democratic cities (I know local govt providing service, what an idea!). Once saturation reaches 80% plus, start enforcing voter ID laws to cajole the last 20% to start applying, carrot and stick. Start offering door-step service for those unable. Democrats pay taxes, don't they? start using them. Spread to other cities in democratic states. So what if it takes 10-20 year? Times passes like nothing. And once you have SET the standard of cheap, reliable access to Photo ID... and when democrats in power in the federal government again, they can use that to help implement cheap photo ID elsewhere, but even if Missouri doesn't get voter ID, it doesn't excuse democratic states NOT having it. The fact that the DMV is only open three days a month or whatever? If it's a democrat led city, FIX it. If it's a republican city, you can come to it later. But NOT starting, as some sort of fake 'rights' issue? Bullship. Start. Start Small, Start NOW. in 25 years you won't even remember this.
      - selimthegrim 2y ago
        Would you like to remind them also what NADRA has Ahmedis sign (half-nama)? I don’t think John Oliver would be very happy about that…
        ryzvonusef 2y ago
        And? That's bigotry, a totally different issue from accessibility. The population WANTS this piece of bigotry, heck our ancestors voted for the damn thing it, it's literally the 2nd amendment of our the constitution. You can't blame NADRA for including it in their forms, they do it on government demand. Heck, I had to sign the damn thing to get my damn passport, there is no escaping it. But NADRA also has vans that go village by village providing photo-ID on the doorstep. And THAT is accessibility. Do I wish this piece of bigotry wasn't in on our forms? Yes. Today Ahmedis; tomorrow Shias; day after who knows, it might be me. Does it mean CNIC are BAD? NO, they are perhaps the only actually part of cour damn governance, being able to provide ID. We could obviously do better, but NOT having ID is crazy.
      - pasc1878 2y ago
        The UK Labour government was opposed to Photo ID it was the right wing that introduced it. It is an Anglo-American thing not to have PhotoID probably related to never been invaded in the last two hundred years. The issue is that to get back in power the Democrats need votes top overturn Republicans and so the IDs in Republican states matter those in Democrat states do not. So better top show full disapproval as they won't lose any seats over that and can keep some pressure up.
        ryzvonusef 2y ago
        I feel this same issue was behind Brexit. Some people in the UK had the same 'oh no we are being outnumbers' sort of mentality, and without mandatory ID, they had no sane voice in their head to tell them 'don't be silly, we track people with cards'. It's funny how much the existence of the card gives the masses a weird sense of peace.
      - naijaboiler 2y ago
ncallaway 2y ago
The problem is that we don't have those same systems for getting an ID. There's no "government comes to you" to give you an ID. And, many Democrats would love to make it easier to get an ID, but the Republicans often deliberately make it harder to get an ID. They shut down offices and reduce hours of locations, so people have to travel farther and take more time off work. They increase the bureaucratic requirements and hurdles, so people are more likely to need to take multiple trips. I personally wouldn't have a problem with making a voter ID a requirement to vote, if we could also agree to make it as easy as you describe to get an ID. The problem is the GOP wants to require getting a voter ID and simultaneously make it harder to get an ID.
- ryzvonusef 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - nemothekid 2y ago
    >I am not an american, I don't have time for these petty excuses. It's not that you don't have time for the excuses. It's that you are chiming in on a system you know nothing about and simply swallowing the propoganda that you read online. If your mayor is actively undermining your ability to get an ID in order to surpress your vote, what does "holding him responsible mean"? And if your mayor is doing this at the behest of a billion dollar superpac that has run the number and realized that if they could get 1% reduction in opposition votes by implementing voter ID laws, what is lower class person to do? It's incredibly easy to get an ID in democratic states, and the voter ID laws aren't about targeting states like California. They almost always target battleground states like Wisconsin where there are billions of dollars spent in TV ads. If you could guarantee that your opponent could like 2-3% of the vote by spending 1 billion dollars on Voter ID bullshit vs spending 10 billion on TV ads, what would you choose? Electoral warfare is far more salient in US politics than in Pakistan - or any other country. The Heritage Foundation (one of the largest republican think tanks) already confirms that voter fraud is a non-issue - but billion dollar PACs have managed to convince a pakistani on the other side of the world that Voter ID is a real issue. You should ask yourself why you - a pakistani - has such strong feelings about Voter ID when Voter Fraud is completely a non-issue when both political sides look at the data. Is it that Voter ID is a real issue, or has the billions being spent on making us think it's an issue bled into the media you consume as well?
gambiting 2y ago
I think the problem there is that in Pakistan where they do this they can reasonably assume that everyone in that remote village is a Pakistani citizen - they probably don't need to see your birth certificate to get you an ID, right? In US they want to see proof that you are a citizen and you are who you say you are, which is what (some) people have an issue with, even if you sent buses with all equipment on them to random american towns people just might not have the right documentation on them to pass the checks. But yes, I agree, it is a pathetic problem for a 1st world country to have - just sort it out.
- ryzvonusef 2y ago
  > they can reasonably assume that everyone in that remote village is a Pakistani citizen absolutely not! we have had massive migrations both from India (after independence) and Afghanistan (after the russian occupation). This is NOT a given. Things have NOT been easy... and in fact dare I say, our ID department is rather dumb and stupid. I personally have had MULTIPLE issues with them. But we have been doing SOMETHING, and the fact that the US doesn't... is insane.
  - gambiting 2y ago
    Alright, how do these mobile offices confirm who they are issuing the documents to then?
    - ryzvonusef 2y ago
      iirc, they use other people as verification. When a child is born, the parent has to get them registered at the local council office. And then when my first card was made at 18, my dad went with me as verification, he attested that I was child #X as per the family tree, they confirmed someone with my name was in that family tree in their records, and used that as verification for me. If parents are not available they can use relatives, as long as there is a family tree link. Not sure how they do it otherwise, but there is some system for refugees etc too.
theGeatZhopa 2y ago
I think it's on purpose to rather limit the voters than empower them.
- ryzvonusef 2y ago
  No, I think that's just a republican boogie-man. I think democrats started out with good intentions, helping enfranchise black voters a part of the civil rights act .... but somehow they have made it their morality point and refuse to accept that it is no longer fit for purpose. They should made no voter-ID a temporary measure and created proper voter-IS systems in the meanwhile.
  - theGeatZhopa 2y ago
    lets see where this whole thing heads to. May be in the end we will see the birth of a true democracy, which is social and where the strong ones will take care of weak ones. At least it should be .. in a dream :)
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
amanaplanacanal 2y ago
The US doesn't have a national id card, and the people who want to force ID for voting are the strongest block against having one, for religious reasons. What you suggest is impossible in the US.
naijaboiler 2y ago
That’s a government that’s interested and motivated in getting people an ID. Now imagine the opposite. A government that’s not interested but rather is motivated in denying some people an ID. Why it increases that’s party likelihood of staying in power.

pasc1878 2y ago

The problem in the US is they are not doing this if anything they are reducing the number of places you can get an ID.

ryzvonusef 2y ago
The US is not a monolith, it's a collection of 50 states.... Democratic states collect taxes and implement policy independently, they CAN do this, at least in their own areas. Start there first!
- aredox 2y ago
  https://youtu.be/rHFOwlMCdto?si=OjoxCfE1noxvw3Fz https://youtu.be/rHFOwlMCdto?si=OjoxCfE1noxvw3Fz
  - ryzvonusef 2y ago
    I have been a John Oliver viewer from the first season, and my comment will be the same as what I said 9 years ago: This is bullship. Start small, but START. Start from Democrats accepting what every LEFT leaning person the rest of the world accepts: Photo ID is necessary, not to reduce voter fraud or whatever, but necessary to increase TRUST in the system. It's a cost, just pay it. Yes you will lose 'face' to republicans, don't care. Start small, start with free/cheap photo ID in deep democratic cities (I know local govt providing service, what an idea!). Once saturation reaches 80% plus, start enforcing voter ID laws to cajole the last 20% to start applying, carrot and stick. Start offering door-step service for those unable. Democrats pay taxes, don't they? start using them. Spread to other cities in democratic states. So what if it takes 10-20 year? Times passes like nothing. And once you have SET the standard of cheap, reliable access to Photo ID... and when democrats in power in the federal government again, they can use that to help implement cheap photo ID elsewhere, but even if Missouri doesn't get voter ID, it doesn't excuse democratic states NOT having it. The fact that the DMV is only open three days a month or whatever? If it's a democrat led city, FIX it. If it's a republican city, you can come to it later. But NOT starting, as some sort of fake 'rights' issue? Bullship. Start. Start Small, Start NOW. in 25 years you won't even remember this.
    - selimthegrim 2y ago
      Would you like to remind them also what NADRA has Ahmedis sign (half-nama)? I don’t think John Oliver would be very happy about that…
      - ryzvonusef 2y ago
        And? That's bigotry, a totally different issue from accessibility. The population WANTS this piece of bigotry, heck our ancestors voted for the damn thing it, it's literally the 2nd amendment of our the constitution. You can't blame NADRA for including it in their forms, they do it on government demand. Heck, I had to sign the damn thing to get my damn passport, there is no escaping it. But NADRA also has vans that go village by village providing photo-ID on the doorstep. And THAT is accessibility. Do I wish this piece of bigotry wasn't in on our forms? Yes. Today Ahmedis; tomorrow Shias; day after who knows, it might be me. Does it mean CNIC are BAD? NO, they are perhaps the only actually part of cour damn governance, being able to provide ID. We could obviously do better, but NOT having ID is crazy.
    - pasc1878 2y ago
      The UK Labour government was opposed to Photo ID it was the right wing that introduced it. It is an Anglo-American thing not to have PhotoID probably related to never been invaded in the last two hundred years. The issue is that to get back in power the Democrats need votes top overturn Republicans and so the IDs in Republican states matter those in Democrat states do not. So better top show full disapproval as they won't lose any seats over that and can keep some pressure up.
      - ryzvonusef 2y ago
        I feel this same issue was behind Brexit. Some people in the UK had the same 'oh no we are being outnumbers' sort of mentality, and without mandatory ID, they had no sane voice in their head to tell them 'don't be silly, we track people with cards'. It's funny how much the existence of the card gives the masses a weird sense of peace.
    - naijaboiler 2y ago

ncallaway 2y ago

The problem is that we don't have those same systems for getting an ID. There's no "government comes to you" to give you an ID. And, many Democrats would love to make it easier to get an ID, but the Republicans often deliberately make it harder to get an ID. They shut down offices and reduce hours of locations, so people have to travel farther and take more time off work. They increase the bureaucratic requirements and hurdles, so people are more likely to need to take multiple trips. I personally wouldn't have a problem with making a voter ID a requirement to vote, if we could also agree to make it as easy as you describe to get an ID. The problem is the GOP wants to require getting a voter ID and simultaneously make it harder to get an ID.

ryzvonusef 2y ago
[flagged]
- nemothekid 2y ago
  >I am not an american, I don't have time for these petty excuses. It's not that you don't have time for the excuses. It's that you are chiming in on a system you know nothing about and simply swallowing the propoganda that you read online. If your mayor is actively undermining your ability to get an ID in order to surpress your vote, what does "holding him responsible mean"? And if your mayor is doing this at the behest of a billion dollar superpac that has run the number and realized that if they could get 1% reduction in opposition votes by implementing voter ID laws, what is lower class person to do? It's incredibly easy to get an ID in democratic states, and the voter ID laws aren't about targeting states like California. They almost always target battleground states like Wisconsin where there are billions of dollars spent in TV ads. If you could guarantee that your opponent could like 2-3% of the vote by spending 1 billion dollars on Voter ID bullshit vs spending 10 billion on TV ads, what would you choose? Electoral warfare is far more salient in US politics than in Pakistan - or any other country. The Heritage Foundation (one of the largest republican think tanks) already confirms that voter fraud is a non-issue - but billion dollar PACs have managed to convince a pakistani on the other side of the world that Voter ID is a real issue. You should ask yourself why you - a pakistani - has such strong feelings about Voter ID when Voter Fraud is completely a non-issue when both political sides look at the data. Is it that Voter ID is a real issue, or has the billions being spent on making us think it's an issue bled into the media you consume as well?

gambiting 2y ago

I think the problem there is that in Pakistan where they do this they can reasonably assume that everyone in that remote village is a Pakistani citizen - they probably don't need to see your birth certificate to get you an ID, right? In US they want to see proof that you are a citizen and you are who you say you are, which is what (some) people have an issue with, even if you sent buses with all equipment on them to random american towns people just might not have the right documentation on them to pass the checks. But yes, I agree, it is a pathetic problem for a 1st world country to have - just sort it out.

ryzvonusef 2y ago
> they can reasonably assume that everyone in that remote village is a Pakistani citizen absolutely not! we have had massive migrations both from India (after independence) and Afghanistan (after the russian occupation). This is NOT a given. Things have NOT been easy... and in fact dare I say, our ID department is rather dumb and stupid. I personally have had MULTIPLE issues with them. But we have been doing SOMETHING, and the fact that the US doesn't... is insane.
- gambiting 2y ago
  Alright, how do these mobile offices confirm who they are issuing the documents to then?
  - ryzvonusef 2y ago
    iirc, they use other people as verification. When a child is born, the parent has to get them registered at the local council office. And then when my first card was made at 18, my dad went with me as verification, he attested that I was child #X as per the family tree, they confirmed someone with my name was in that family tree in their records, and used that as verification for me. If parents are not available they can use relatives, as long as there is a family tree link. Not sure how they do it otherwise, but there is some system for refugees etc too.

theGeatZhopa 2y ago

I think it's on purpose to rather limit the voters than empower them.

ryzvonusef 2y ago
No, I think that's just a republican boogie-man. I think democrats started out with good intentions, helping enfranchise black voters a part of the civil rights act .... but somehow they have made it their morality point and refuse to accept that it is no longer fit for purpose. They should made no voter-ID a temporary measure and created proper voter-IS systems in the meanwhile.
- theGeatZhopa 2y ago
  lets see where this whole thing heads to. May be in the end we will see the birth of a true democracy, which is social and where the strong ones will take care of weak ones. At least it should be .. in a dream :)

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

amanaplanacanal 2y ago

The US doesn't have a national id card, and the people who want to force ID for voting are the strongest block against having one, for religious reasons. What you suggest is impossible in the US.

naijaboiler 2y ago

That’s a government that’s interested and motivated in getting people an ID. Now imagine the opposite. A government that’s not interested but rather is motivated in denying some people an ID. Why it increases that’s party likelihood of staying in power.