3 ms·

A 17 year old ThinkPad is going to have extremely limited utility for today's applications. You can browse the web****, sure. You can replace parts, yes. But it

by p_ing 2y ago

A 17 year old ThinkPad is going to have extremely limited utility for today's applications. You can browse the web****, sure. You can replace parts, yes. But it still performs like dogshit for today's applications. That said, I maintain a G4 Cube running an outdated OS to play Sim City and Sim Tower. And it's "upgraded" as much as possible. ****JavaScript not included

willjp 2y ago
It doesn’t have to be 17 years old though. I think the point he’s making is that it’s still solving problems for him. I have one that’s 12 years old. It just does what I need to. Parts are easily replaceable. I keep doing the cost/benefit of upgrading but I just don’t need it.
ekianjo 2y ago
> But it still performs like dogshit for today's applications That says more about how unoptimized are today's applications than the capabilities of the machine
neilv 2y ago
Web, including JavaScript, should work fine on that laptop. Until recently, my daily driver was the T500 (the larger screen version of the T400 in the article), and it worked fine for everything except GPU. (I actually downgraded to the T500 years ago, because I was pissed off about the Intel Management Engine.) Recently, I upgraded from the T500 to the T520, which is the last ThinkPad with a non-chiclet keyboard. It works fine for everything except GPU and fitting inside many backpacks. With ThinkPads of this era, you want to get a high-spec variant of the model (e.g., top-res IPS display), and then make the following upgrades: * SSD * run Linux * run uBlock Origin (and block most of the third-party surveillance, which hurts performance) (JS runs fine, so long as you're not running multiple dueling adtech slimeballs' intimate mouse trackers) * max out the RAM (you don't need that much for Linux, unless you're using an exceptionally bloated desktop option, but it's cheap, and you can use it to keep filesystems like ~/.cache off your SSD ) * (optional) replace the CPU with a more optimal one for power draw or heat, or maybe for compute (these are socketed in most models) * (optional, not for the faint of heart) install Coreboot, and then you have more WiFi upgrade options
- RavSS 2y ago
  You can use the T420/T520's keyboard in a T430/T530 with modifications to the firmware, some plastic around the keyboard part itself, and the ribbon cable (just pin isolation with tape). It lets you go with Ivy Bridge over Sandy Bridge. I have a T430 with the T420's keyboard and it lasted me 7 years of daily use before battery life became too big of an issue for me (even with a single DDR3L RAM module and a slice battery), so I put it aside. The typing experience was really excellent. Upgrading the CPU to a quad-core model (ideally one that consumes 35W over 45W) is one of the best upgrades to make for anyone still using these machines.
  - neilv 2y ago
    Do you know an exceedingly credible source for the firmware modifications? (Last time I looked, it had the air of the XDA-style culture: "To root your phone, download this package from a `.ru` piracy site, run the `.exe` on your PC, then install and run the closed blobs on your phone, including rooting and replacing your bootloader with one, we know you will trust us." Though, in their defense, if they were organized crime, they would probably make an effort to look more legitimate, rather than gratuitously suspicious. And all the forum comments were always lapping it up, appearing to be doing reckless things, while removing much of the demand and contributors for more-credible efforts.)
    - RavSS 2y ago
      That is the general nature of reverse engineering efforts, but this one has been documented enough that you don't need to blindly trust completely random executables or code from strange places. You can manually recreate the process of building a patch for the embedded controller instead of just following instructions: https://github.com/hamishcoleman/thinkpad-ec https://github.com/hamishcoleman/thinkpad-ec. Here's the presentation by the author himself at linux.conf.au (what used to be the biggest local Linux conference for those of us in Australia and NZ): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzmm87oVQ6c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzmm87oVQ6c. This is of course not supported by Lenovo. Unlocking the BIOS is definitely more like what you described. It's the price to pay for freely playing around with processor power limits, getting AES-NI instruction set support, etc. I have not checked since 2019, so there might be a clearer way.
boneitis 2y ago
This is the asterisk that always stands out to me with the raving posts about how great people's dinosaur Thinkpads are. Yes, if I don't have to keep multiple browser windows, video calls, Slack, and whathaveyou open, then I too can get by with an ancient Thinkpad. If it is enough for you, then all the power to you. I am sincerely supportive of the fact that you can stick it to today's consumerist, disposable tech industry. Here I am on my T480s with 40 GB memory (8 is soldered) and the highest tier CPU for the Thinkpad gen (apparently these are soldered on too), and it's a drag. I'm trying to scrape by until I can start thinking about saving up for a new Framework.
- gabegm 2y ago
  Out of curiosity, what is your ThinkPad struggling with?

by p_ing 2y ago

willjp 2y ago

It doesn’t have to be 17 years old though. I think the point he’s making is that it’s still solving problems for him. I have one that’s 12 years old. It just does what I need to. Parts are easily replaceable. I keep doing the cost/benefit of upgrading but I just don’t need it.

ekianjo 2y ago

> But it still performs like dogshit for today's applications That says more about how unoptimized are today's applications than the capabilities of the machine

neilv 2y ago

Web, including JavaScript, should work fine on that laptop. Until recently, my daily driver was the T500 (the larger screen version of the T400 in the article), and it worked fine for everything except GPU. (I actually downgraded to the T500 years ago, because I was pissed off about the Intel Management Engine.) Recently, I upgraded from the T500 to the T520, which is the last ThinkPad with a non-chiclet keyboard. It works fine for everything except GPU and fitting inside many backpacks. With ThinkPads of this era, you want to get a high-spec variant of the model (e.g., top-res IPS display), and then make the following upgrades: * SSD * run Linux * run uBlock Origin (and block most of the third-party surveillance, which hurts performance) (JS runs fine, so long as you're not running multiple dueling adtech slimeballs' intimate mouse trackers) * max out the RAM (you don't need that much for Linux, unless you're using an exceptionally bloated desktop option, but it's cheap, and you can use it to keep filesystems like ~/.cache off your SSD ) * (optional) replace the CPU with a more optimal one for power draw or heat, or maybe for compute (these are socketed in most models) * (optional, not for the faint of heart) install Coreboot, and then you have more WiFi upgrade options

RavSS 2y ago
You can use the T420/T520's keyboard in a T430/T530 with modifications to the firmware, some plastic around the keyboard part itself, and the ribbon cable (just pin isolation with tape). It lets you go with Ivy Bridge over Sandy Bridge. I have a T430 with the T420's keyboard and it lasted me 7 years of daily use before battery life became too big of an issue for me (even with a single DDR3L RAM module and a slice battery), so I put it aside. The typing experience was really excellent. Upgrading the CPU to a quad-core model (ideally one that consumes 35W over 45W) is one of the best upgrades to make for anyone still using these machines.
- neilv 2y ago
  Do you know an exceedingly credible source for the firmware modifications? (Last time I looked, it had the air of the XDA-style culture: "To root your phone, download this package from a `.ru` piracy site, run the `.exe` on your PC, then install and run the closed blobs on your phone, including rooting and replacing your bootloader with one, we know you will trust us." Though, in their defense, if they were organized crime, they would probably make an effort to look more legitimate, rather than gratuitously suspicious. And all the forum comments were always lapping it up, appearing to be doing reckless things, while removing much of the demand and contributors for more-credible efforts.)
  - RavSS 2y ago
    That is the general nature of reverse engineering efforts, but this one has been documented enough that you don't need to blindly trust completely random executables or code from strange places. You can manually recreate the process of building a patch for the embedded controller instead of just following instructions: https://github.com/hamishcoleman/thinkpad-ec https://github.com/hamishcoleman/thinkpad-ec. Here's the presentation by the author himself at linux.conf.au (what used to be the biggest local Linux conference for those of us in Australia and NZ): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzmm87oVQ6c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzmm87oVQ6c. This is of course not supported by Lenovo. Unlocking the BIOS is definitely more like what you described. It's the price to pay for freely playing around with processor power limits, getting AES-NI instruction set support, etc. I have not checked since 2019, so there might be a clearer way.

boneitis 2y ago

This is the asterisk that always stands out to me with the raving posts about how great people's dinosaur Thinkpads are. Yes, if I don't have to keep multiple browser windows, video calls, Slack, and whathaveyou open, then I too can get by with an ancient Thinkpad. If it is enough for you, then all the power to you. I am sincerely supportive of the fact that you can stick it to today's consumerist, disposable tech industry. Here I am on my T480s with 40 GB memory (8 is soldered) and the highest tier CPU for the Thinkpad gen (apparently these are soldered on too), and it's a drag. I'm trying to scrape by until I can start thinking about saving up for a new Framework.

gabegm 2y ago
Out of curiosity, what is your ThinkPad struggling with?