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What puzzles me about the reported birth of coffee is that I wouldn't expect that just eating the cherries would give you that much of a caffeine kick to be not

What puzzles me about the reported birth of coffee is that I wouldn't expect that just eating the cherries would give you that much of a caffeine kick to be noticeable. Yes, there's a little bit of caffeine in them, but far more in the "beans" (seeds).

loloquwowndueo 2y ago
We’re probably used to higher levels of caffeine now, but if we weren’t, maybe chewing the berries would give a noticeable boost. Kinda like ok you can eat a poppy but then there’s a reason morphine exists. (Sorry for the stupid analogy ;)
zdragnar 2y ago
Tea also has noticeably less caffeine than coffee, yet it has been treated as an energizing drink since it was first discovered. When you don't have any adrenal stimulants in your diet at all, even a small amount is noticable. Caffeine also has a metabolic half life of roughly 5 hours in the body, if I remember correctly. A few berries might not do much, but surely a handful will be enough.
- jessekv 2y ago
  Tea leaves usually have more caffeine than coffee beans, but tea itself is usually more diluted than coffee. If you want a jolt, make a matcha shot with the same mass of matcha as you would normally do for coffee ;)
  - fashion-at-cost 2y ago
    Or a traditional Maté
    - rwyinuse 2y ago
      Somehow caffeine from Maté feels different though. To me coffee gives a fast spike and then comedown, while Maté's effect is more balanced, and lasts longer. And I don't think it's just caffeine content, because tea is nothing like that for me. For staying productive for hours, nothing beats Maté for me (except stimulant medication).
- Projectiboga 2y ago
  Tea bushes use an entirely different metabolic pathway to produce caffeine than coffee bushes. Here is an article that further describes how we believe caffeine synthesis evolved in multiple land plant lineages. https://www.pnas.org/content/113/38/10613 https://www.pnas.org/content/113/38/10613 Caffeine synthesis involves several enzymes, but the enzyme family (called the SABATH family) involved in the final stages of its synthesis can trace its origins back to the first land plants. These first enzymes are thought to have been very promiscuous (capable of having activity with several molecules), partially contributing to how caffeine synthesis managed to evolve independently multiple times throughout the evolutionary history of land plants.
- hermitShell 2y ago
  This is why I routinely wean myself from coffee by drinking tea on most holiday weekends. I feel it helps me to dissociate less while I should be present with family, plus when I return to work I have much less residual caffeine and can hit peak productivity, crank out some code. Props to devs who don’t rely on drugs!
iteria 2y ago
If you truly detox from caffeine even extremely small amounts will be noticeable. I knew a woman who couldn't eat chocolate because she found the amount of caffeine to be too high. I didn't even know there was caffeine in chocolate.
- recursive 2y ago
  > I knew a woman who couldn't eat chocolate because she found the amount of caffeine to be too high. I think the causality went the other way in that case. I've been roughly caffeine free at certain intervals. Never felt anything from chocolate.
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    I went almost caffeine free at one point. I once got a good buzz from 300g of 90% chocolate. I say "almost" caffeine free because I still regularly ate chocolate. So I still had a little tolerance. Yet the difference between 50g of milk chocolate and 300g of 90% was very noticeable.
    - isoprophlex 2y ago
      Not judging but to me 300 grams of chocolate, dark or otherwise, is an outright obscene amount
      - bryanlarsen 2y ago
        Go ahead and judge. It was an obscene amount.
  - garciasn 2y ago
    Depends on the chocolate type and how much you're eating. Milk chocolate has very low levels (~2mg per 28oz), but dark chocolate is ~15mg per 28oz. Coffee, at 24oz, would be around 275mg, depending. I find it hard to believe that some folks would feel the caffeine in chocolate unless they ate an entire dark chocolate bar in one sitting, but I suppose it's possible.
pzs 2y ago
They call the cherries cascara, and I have come across them in some specialty coffee shops packaged just like the beans. You can pour hot (not boiling) water over them and prepare a tea-like infusion. It tastes sweet-ish without adding anything else. It gives a pretty noticeable kick to me when I drink it, even though I am a regular coffee drinker. I think it is worth a try, if you haven't done so yet.
inetknght 2y ago
> I wouldn't expect that just eating the cherries would give you that much of a caffeine kick to be noticeable If you're paying attention to your body and you're not addicted to stimulants, then a small kick of caffeine would absolutely be noticeable.

loloquwowndueo 2y ago

We’re probably used to higher levels of caffeine now, but if we weren’t, maybe chewing the berries would give a noticeable boost. Kinda like ok you can eat a poppy but then there’s a reason morphine exists. (Sorry for the stupid analogy ;)

zdragnar 2y ago

Tea also has noticeably less caffeine than coffee, yet it has been treated as an energizing drink since it was first discovered. When you don't have any adrenal stimulants in your diet at all, even a small amount is noticable. Caffeine also has a metabolic half life of roughly 5 hours in the body, if I remember correctly. A few berries might not do much, but surely a handful will be enough.

jessekv 2y ago
Tea leaves usually have more caffeine than coffee beans, but tea itself is usually more diluted than coffee. If you want a jolt, make a matcha shot with the same mass of matcha as you would normally do for coffee ;)
- fashion-at-cost 2y ago
  Or a traditional Maté
  - rwyinuse 2y ago
    Somehow caffeine from Maté feels different though. To me coffee gives a fast spike and then comedown, while Maté's effect is more balanced, and lasts longer. And I don't think it's just caffeine content, because tea is nothing like that for me. For staying productive for hours, nothing beats Maté for me (except stimulant medication).
Projectiboga 2y ago
Tea bushes use an entirely different metabolic pathway to produce caffeine than coffee bushes. Here is an article that further describes how we believe caffeine synthesis evolved in multiple land plant lineages. https://www.pnas.org/content/113/38/10613 https://www.pnas.org/content/113/38/10613 Caffeine synthesis involves several enzymes, but the enzyme family (called the SABATH family) involved in the final stages of its synthesis can trace its origins back to the first land plants. These first enzymes are thought to have been very promiscuous (capable of having activity with several molecules), partially contributing to how caffeine synthesis managed to evolve independently multiple times throughout the evolutionary history of land plants.
hermitShell 2y ago
This is why I routinely wean myself from coffee by drinking tea on most holiday weekends. I feel it helps me to dissociate less while I should be present with family, plus when I return to work I have much less residual caffeine and can hit peak productivity, crank out some code. Props to devs who don’t rely on drugs!

iteria 2y ago

If you truly detox from caffeine even extremely small amounts will be noticeable. I knew a woman who couldn't eat chocolate because she found the amount of caffeine to be too high. I didn't even know there was caffeine in chocolate.

recursive 2y ago
> I knew a woman who couldn't eat chocolate because she found the amount of caffeine to be too high. I think the causality went the other way in that case. I've been roughly caffeine free at certain intervals. Never felt anything from chocolate.
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  I went almost caffeine free at one point. I once got a good buzz from 300g of 90% chocolate. I say "almost" caffeine free because I still regularly ate chocolate. So I still had a little tolerance. Yet the difference between 50g of milk chocolate and 300g of 90% was very noticeable.
  - isoprophlex 2y ago
    Not judging but to me 300 grams of chocolate, dark or otherwise, is an outright obscene amount
    - bryanlarsen 2y ago
      Go ahead and judge. It was an obscene amount.
- garciasn 2y ago
  Depends on the chocolate type and how much you're eating. Milk chocolate has very low levels (~2mg per 28oz), but dark chocolate is ~15mg per 28oz. Coffee, at 24oz, would be around 275mg, depending. I find it hard to believe that some folks would feel the caffeine in chocolate unless they ate an entire dark chocolate bar in one sitting, but I suppose it's possible.

pzs 2y ago

They call the cherries cascara, and I have come across them in some specialty coffee shops packaged just like the beans. You can pour hot (not boiling) water over them and prepare a tea-like infusion. It tastes sweet-ish without adding anything else. It gives a pretty noticeable kick to me when I drink it, even though I am a regular coffee drinker. I think it is worth a try, if you haven't done so yet.

inetknght 2y ago

> I wouldn't expect that just eating the cherries would give you that much of a caffeine kick to be noticeable If you're paying attention to your body and you're not addicted to stimulants, then a small kick of caffeine would absolutely be noticeable.