8 ms·

Coffea stenophylla: A forgotten bean that could save coffee from extinction

170 points by derbOac 2y ago

dbetteridge 2y ago
https://youtu.be/iGL7LtgC_0I?si=V8vXK4QzF_lAfRjB https://youtu.be/iGL7LtgC_0I?si=V8vXK4QzF_lAfRjB James Hoffman did an interesting episode on this bean a few years ago, very cool the work being done.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
What puzzles me about the reported birth of coffee is that I wouldn't expect that just eating the cherries would give you that much of a caffeine kick to be noticeable. Yes, there's a little bit of caffeine in them, but far more in the "beans" (seeds).
- loloquwowndueo 2y ago
  We’re probably used to higher levels of caffeine now, but if we weren’t, maybe chewing the berries would give a noticeable boost. Kinda like ok you can eat a poppy but then there’s a reason morphine exists. (Sorry for the stupid analogy ;)
- zdragnar 2y ago
  Tea also has noticeably less caffeine than coffee, yet it has been treated as an energizing drink since it was first discovered. When you don't have any adrenal stimulants in your diet at all, even a small amount is noticable. Caffeine also has a metabolic half life of roughly 5 hours in the body, if I remember correctly. A few berries might not do much, but surely a handful will be enough.
  - jessekv 2y ago
    Tea leaves usually have more caffeine than coffee beans, but tea itself is usually more diluted than coffee. If you want a jolt, make a matcha shot with the same mass of matcha as you would normally do for coffee ;)
    - fashion-at-cost 2y ago
      Or a traditional Maté
      - rwyinuse 2y ago
        Somehow caffeine from Maté feels different though. To me coffee gives a fast spike and then comedown, while Maté's effect is more balanced, and lasts longer. And I don't think it's just caffeine content, because tea is nothing like that for me. For staying productive for hours, nothing beats Maté for me (except stimulant medication).
  - Projectiboga 2y ago
    Tea bushes use an entirely different metabolic pathway to produce caffeine than coffee bushes. Here is an article that further describes how we believe caffeine synthesis evolved in multiple land plant lineages. https://www.pnas.org/content/113/38/10613 https://www.pnas.org/content/113/38/10613 Caffeine synthesis involves several enzymes, but the enzyme family (called the SABATH family) involved in the final stages of its synthesis can trace its origins back to the first land plants. These first enzymes are thought to have been very promiscuous (capable of having activity with several molecules), partially contributing to how caffeine synthesis managed to evolve independently multiple times throughout the evolutionary history of land plants.
  - hermitShell 2y ago
    This is why I routinely wean myself from coffee by drinking tea on most holiday weekends. I feel it helps me to dissociate less while I should be present with family, plus when I return to work I have much less residual caffeine and can hit peak productivity, crank out some code. Props to devs who don’t rely on drugs!
- iteria 2y ago
  If you truly detox from caffeine even extremely small amounts will be noticeable. I knew a woman who couldn't eat chocolate because she found the amount of caffeine to be too high. I didn't even know there was caffeine in chocolate.
  - recursive 2y ago
    > I knew a woman who couldn't eat chocolate because she found the amount of caffeine to be too high. I think the causality went the other way in that case. I've been roughly caffeine free at certain intervals. Never felt anything from chocolate.
    - bryanlarsen 2y ago
      I went almost caffeine free at one point. I once got a good buzz from 300g of 90% chocolate. I say "almost" caffeine free because I still regularly ate chocolate. So I still had a little tolerance. Yet the difference between 50g of milk chocolate and 300g of 90% was very noticeable.
      - isoprophlex 2y ago
        Not judging but to me 300 grams of chocolate, dark or otherwise, is an outright obscene amount
        bryanlarsen 2y ago
        Go ahead and judge. It was an obscene amount.
    - garciasn 2y ago
      Depends on the chocolate type and how much you're eating. Milk chocolate has very low levels (~2mg per 28oz), but dark chocolate is ~15mg per 28oz. Coffee, at 24oz, would be around 275mg, depending. I find it hard to believe that some folks would feel the caffeine in chocolate unless they ate an entire dark chocolate bar in one sitting, but I suppose it's possible.
- pzs 2y ago
  They call the cherries cascara, and I have come across them in some specialty coffee shops packaged just like the beans. You can pour hot (not boiling) water over them and prepare a tea-like infusion. It tastes sweet-ish without adding anything else. It gives a pretty noticeable kick to me when I drink it, even though I am a regular coffee drinker. I think it is worth a try, if you haven't done so yet.
- inetknght 2y ago
  > I wouldn't expect that just eating the cherries would give you that much of a caffeine kick to be noticeable If you're paying attention to your body and you're not addicted to stimulants, then a small kick of caffeine would absolutely be noticeable.
djha-skin 2y ago
Caffeine production is likely difficult in the face of a drier climate. Caffeine is present in the plant as a pesticide. Insects are a much bigger problem in wet climates over dry. Having grown up in a wet climate (Chicago) but now living in a dry one (Utah) I can say that finding a droubt tolerant species which concerns itself with pesticide production may be difficult. The same water which coffee relies on is the same stuff pests rely on to reproduce. My mother was from Utah, and she always lamented at the small size of her flowers growing up in Chicago. They are much larger in Utah because they can get big without insects eating them. (I say all this as a point of interest, but I don't drink coffee myself.)
- mortos 2y ago
  That's interesting, it's something I haven't really thought about. There is some desire for less caffeine as it adds bitterness. Eugenioides, a parent species to arabica the commonly cultivated species, inherently has less caffeine and is said to have a remarkably sweet cup. It's had some attention in barista competitions in the last few years.
  - klausa 2y ago
    Eugenioides is sweet in a way that no other coffee I ever had is sweet. You sometimes see "sweet" as an axis of flavor of coffee, or as a tasting note on a bag of fancy beans; but eugenioides is very different. It's _the_ dominant note in that cup, and it is much less fruity or floral, it's just... sweet. You taste the sweetness, and then the rest of the "typical" coffee notes come in the background, but much less pronounced than usual. I've seen people describe it as a "cereal-like", and while I don't think I fully agree with that description, I do get where they're coming from. If you're a coffee person and ever see a bag of it on offer (and can afford it), I definitely recommend grabbing it — it's really, really unique (and quite rare!). (And I do not think this is in any way related to the caffeine content — otherwise most of decafs would be very sweet, and they obviously aren't).
    - shepherdjerred 2y ago
      When you say sweet, is that because the coffee has more sugar, or are there just other compounds? I guess what I’m asking is what’s the difference between what you’re describing and making a regular good cup of coffee and adding a teaspoon of sugar?
jessekv 2y ago
> In Asia and Australia, people tend to prefer tea. Maybe, but Taiwan and Australia have some of the best coffee these days.
- AnotherGoodName 2y ago
  As an Australian i thought that was weird since we clearly favor coffee and have a very proud coffee culture so i looked it up. Turns out that statement is completely false. We drink more coffee than tea which matches my anecdotal experience. https://www.statista.com/forecasts/1399769/australia-regularly-consumed-beverages https://www.statista.com/forecasts/1399769/australia-regular...
  - diob 2y ago
    Yeah, given you bump into a different coffee shop every 100ft in Melbourne, I'd be surprised if tea was winning.
  - unwind 2y ago
    Yeah, the 'flat white' espresso/milk drink which is now sold all over the world is from Australia. I guess coming up with a new drink that appeals to people enough to go global happens easier in a place with a coffee culture. As a Swede who enjoys the occasional flat white: thanks, Australia! :)
- sampullman 2y ago
  Not to mention Vietnam and Indonesia, which are the second and third largest coffee producers in the world.
- m3kw9 2y ago
  They all import same coffee from south america/africa regions
FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
Robusta is doing just fine... https://www.anthropocenemagazine.org/2024/08/coffee-is-threatened-by-climate-change-the-solution-may-be-closer-at-hand-than-we-thought/ https://www.anthropocenemagazine.org/2024/08/coffee-is-threa...
- jtbayly 2y ago
  If, as the article says, you like instant coffee, then great.
  - FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
    Vietnam seems to like it, fine. Pretty popular in France and Germany, too. If you have ever had Bustelo, then you've had it.
  - 6177c40f 2y ago
    Robusta is great if you don't go with the low quality stuff. Good quality Vietnamese Robusta is very enjoyable (and much higher in caffeine than Arabica, which I think is a nice bonus). There's also the possibility of hybridizing Robusta and Arabica to get the best traits of both. A few hybrid varieties, such as Catimor, have existed on the market for a while. AFAIK Catimor has some of the hardiness of its parent Robusta. As always, you'll have the best experience if you buy whole beans and grind them yourself (or at least find a supermarket that lets you grind beans fresh). No instant coffee that currently exists will be able to compete with that.
chris_va 2y ago
It is amazing how inefficient water use seems to be in plants. Dry biomass growth is ~1kg/m^2/year, wet maybe 4-5x that. But they see ~1m of rainfall, so 1000kg/m^2/year of water. The roots fail to take up some, but the rest seems to be ~99% lost due to transpiration (some of which is necessary for heat stress and/or pump up nutrients). Maybe after C4 rice we can get C4/CAM coffee?
- foundart 2y ago
  Transpiration by plants, especially in large forested areas like the Amazon, plays an important role in creating future rainfall
briandear 2y ago
Coffee crop failures have been around as long as there have been coffee crops, this idea that current coffee could go extinct is silly. Ideal locations for growing coffee can change and evolve over time, but an extinction event? C’mon. If that were to happen, there would be any people left to care. Literally everything is blamed on climate change these days. Too much snow? Climate change. Too little snow? Also climate change. A few years ago I was climbing Mont Blanc and the rockfall due to a warmer winter was blamed on climate change, then a few years later: near-record snow. It’s taking on religious overtones: rather than things happening because it’s God’s will — now it’s “climate.” I am not denying that the climate changes, I am only calling out that literally every mishap in the natural world is being blamed on it. There is a lot of money in that business.
- jpalawaga 2y ago
  So you're not denying climate change, just the effects of it. I'm not sure that's any better. We call it climate change because warmer weather produces higher variance in weather patterns--you're adding entropy into the system. Overall warmer, but more rain (and mud/rockslides), more wind, more lightning, etc etc.
  - rmah 2y ago
    As I read it, he's not denying the effects either. He's just saying that not everything bad that happens wrt climate and weather is due to "climate change". Sometimes, it's just variations, which have always happened.
    - ars 2y ago
      These days everything is blamed on climate change. And when people point out natural variation, they get bashed. A recent example is the CA fires, there is zero evidence linking them to climate change - they did a study and found no effect - which of course was reported as "climate change to blame".
      - inetknght 2y ago
doodlebugging 2y ago
Maybe the answer is for someone to work on boosting natural caffeine levels in yaupon holly tea. It grows wild all over the SE US and can withstand multi-year drought or regular floods though it does best in a situation where it gets regular rainfall. You may have some in your own yard used as a hedge plant. I have several large trees on my place. It spreads underground by suckers and will take over an area if you do nothing to contain it. It is very strong once it forms a thicket. I have driven across a yaupon thicket in a seismic buggy and been in a situation where none of the tires were touching the ground as I drove because I was crossing a thick tangle of yaupon that supported the vehicle. Caffeine levels are lower than coffee beans (40-60 mg versus >150 mg I think). Yaupon does also have theobromines, vasodilators, that are supposed to help it prevent the caffeine crash. I have some leaves dried and drink it make a tea occasionally when I want a boost but not a cup of coffee level boost. It tastes great and is easy to prepare at home. [0]https://yauponbrothers.com/blogs/news/is-yaupon-better-than-coffee-yes https://yauponbrothers.com/blogs/news/is-yaupon-better-than-... There are other sources of information about yaupon holly. It is proposed that the British naturalist who discovered Native Americans using it in their own ceremonies and drinking it casually decided to name it ilex vomitoria not because it was dangerous or poisonous to consume but because since it grew wild in the colonies, it could be a serious competitor to English tea so he used the name to make it less attractive.
- sriacha 2y ago
  There are so many interesting native plants that provide alternatives to our extremely rigid globalized food systems. Also to note Ilex vomitoria is in the same genus as yerba mate, Ilex paraguariensis.
  - jfarina 2y ago
    Can you rebrand a species? Drinking vomitoria sounds less than appetizing.
    - WrongAssumption 2y ago
      Yes you can. See Patagonian Toothfish -> Chilean Seabass.
awaymazdacx5 2y ago
Caffeine mgs for various brewed extracts can be lower than a cup of coffee. Even decaf still contains <.002mg, remain static over the designated beverage half-life. For third-wave, light roast blooms, containing more acid, the caffeine content is punctuated.
Henchman21 2y ago
The world is addicted to stimulants. It is very disheartening.
- connicpu 2y ago
  Some people just like the flavor, personally I drink a cup of decaf every evening. Of course, a LOT are addicted to caffeine. The most normalized addiction in the world ahead of alcohol and nicotine, although those are becoming more stigmatized over time.
  - joquarky 2y ago
    Internet addiction is so normalized that you didn't even include it.
- histriosum 2y ago
  I personally love the taste of coffee. If decaffeinated were able to achieve the same flavors, I'd be quite happy with it. Unfortunately, it doesn't taste at all the same.
  - Henchman21 2y ago
    I will not consume caffeine and tbh the rest of you need to slow down. Modern life runs on stimulants and caffeine is a whip at the back of the worker. I know this forum doesn’t give a damn about worker’s rights, but I do, and man I am tired of all this.
    - histriosum 2y ago
      Your personal choice is fine for you. My personal choice is to enjoy a cup or two of coffee per day, because I love the way it tastes, not because I want or need the caffeine. I currently don't have regular employment, as I am attempting a career change, but my coffee consumption doesn't change when I'm on a job. With respect, I think your worldview needs to widen out a bit. Just because there are lots of worker exploitation issues going on the world doesn't mean that everything fits in that lens. Some of us like coffee, and that doesn't mean it's because we like or accept a "whip at the back".
vmwareuser-020 2y ago
Liberica, which is already popularized in Malaysia, is another type of coffee that’s resistant to heat and droughts. I’m introducing some plants to a rural community in Panama that had its Robusta crops ruined by the harsh summers we’ve experienced over the past couple of years.
- lycopodiopsida 2y ago
  I've had some bags of liberica recently and it is very interesting. A lot of vanilla, overshadowing all other flavors. I prefer arabica, but I am also 100% for ending the arabica/robusta monocrop in favor of more coffee species. It certainly enriches coffee culture!
more_corn 2y ago
What a refreshing piece of long form journalism.
saunved_42 2y ago
This is a beautiful read into the history and novelties of coffee. I'd love to taste stenophylla some day
sgt 2y ago
Other coffee beans is intriguing. Often it's very obvious as to why Arabica won our hearts, though! A while back I tried a coffee bean called Racemosa. The beans are like tiny little pellets, and when you drink it your eyes will widen and go.. "WOW. HGRRRGH. EW. HMM.. INTERESTING. OK, NOT COFFEE AS WE KNOW IT."

170 points by derbOac 2y ago

https://youtu.be/iGL7LtgC_0I?si=V8vXK4QzF_lAfRjB https://youtu.be/iGL7LtgC_0I?si=V8vXK4QzF_lAfRjB James Hoffman did an interesting episode on this bean a few years ago, very cool the work being done.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

ndsipa_pomu 2y ago

What puzzles me about the reported birth of coffee is that I wouldn't expect that just eating the cherries would give you that much of a caffeine kick to be noticeable. Yes, there's a little bit of caffeine in them, but far more in the "beans" (seeds).

loloquwowndueo 2y ago
We’re probably used to higher levels of caffeine now, but if we weren’t, maybe chewing the berries would give a noticeable boost. Kinda like ok you can eat a poppy but then there’s a reason morphine exists. (Sorry for the stupid analogy ;)
zdragnar 2y ago
Tea also has noticeably less caffeine than coffee, yet it has been treated as an energizing drink since it was first discovered. When you don't have any adrenal stimulants in your diet at all, even a small amount is noticable. Caffeine also has a metabolic half life of roughly 5 hours in the body, if I remember correctly. A few berries might not do much, but surely a handful will be enough.
- jessekv 2y ago
  Tea leaves usually have more caffeine than coffee beans, but tea itself is usually more diluted than coffee. If you want a jolt, make a matcha shot with the same mass of matcha as you would normally do for coffee ;)
  - fashion-at-cost 2y ago
    Or a traditional Maté
    - rwyinuse 2y ago
      Somehow caffeine from Maté feels different though. To me coffee gives a fast spike and then comedown, while Maté's effect is more balanced, and lasts longer. And I don't think it's just caffeine content, because tea is nothing like that for me. For staying productive for hours, nothing beats Maté for me (except stimulant medication).
- Projectiboga 2y ago
  Tea bushes use an entirely different metabolic pathway to produce caffeine than coffee bushes. Here is an article that further describes how we believe caffeine synthesis evolved in multiple land plant lineages. https://www.pnas.org/content/113/38/10613 https://www.pnas.org/content/113/38/10613 Caffeine synthesis involves several enzymes, but the enzyme family (called the SABATH family) involved in the final stages of its synthesis can trace its origins back to the first land plants. These first enzymes are thought to have been very promiscuous (capable of having activity with several molecules), partially contributing to how caffeine synthesis managed to evolve independently multiple times throughout the evolutionary history of land plants.
- hermitShell 2y ago
  This is why I routinely wean myself from coffee by drinking tea on most holiday weekends. I feel it helps me to dissociate less while I should be present with family, plus when I return to work I have much less residual caffeine and can hit peak productivity, crank out some code. Props to devs who don’t rely on drugs!
iteria 2y ago
If you truly detox from caffeine even extremely small amounts will be noticeable. I knew a woman who couldn't eat chocolate because she found the amount of caffeine to be too high. I didn't even know there was caffeine in chocolate.
- recursive 2y ago
  > I knew a woman who couldn't eat chocolate because she found the amount of caffeine to be too high. I think the causality went the other way in that case. I've been roughly caffeine free at certain intervals. Never felt anything from chocolate.
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    I went almost caffeine free at one point. I once got a good buzz from 300g of 90% chocolate. I say "almost" caffeine free because I still regularly ate chocolate. So I still had a little tolerance. Yet the difference between 50g of milk chocolate and 300g of 90% was very noticeable.
    - isoprophlex 2y ago
      Not judging but to me 300 grams of chocolate, dark or otherwise, is an outright obscene amount
      - bryanlarsen 2y ago
        Go ahead and judge. It was an obscene amount.
  - garciasn 2y ago
    Depends on the chocolate type and how much you're eating. Milk chocolate has very low levels (~2mg per 28oz), but dark chocolate is ~15mg per 28oz. Coffee, at 24oz, would be around 275mg, depending. I find it hard to believe that some folks would feel the caffeine in chocolate unless they ate an entire dark chocolate bar in one sitting, but I suppose it's possible.
pzs 2y ago
They call the cherries cascara, and I have come across them in some specialty coffee shops packaged just like the beans. You can pour hot (not boiling) water over them and prepare a tea-like infusion. It tastes sweet-ish without adding anything else. It gives a pretty noticeable kick to me when I drink it, even though I am a regular coffee drinker. I think it is worth a try, if you haven't done so yet.
inetknght 2y ago
> I wouldn't expect that just eating the cherries would give you that much of a caffeine kick to be noticeable If you're paying attention to your body and you're not addicted to stimulants, then a small kick of caffeine would absolutely be noticeable.

djha-skin 2y ago

Caffeine production is likely difficult in the face of a drier climate. Caffeine is present in the plant as a pesticide. Insects are a much bigger problem in wet climates over dry. Having grown up in a wet climate (Chicago) but now living in a dry one (Utah) I can say that finding a droubt tolerant species which concerns itself with pesticide production may be difficult. The same water which coffee relies on is the same stuff pests rely on to reproduce. My mother was from Utah, and she always lamented at the small size of her flowers growing up in Chicago. They are much larger in Utah because they can get big without insects eating them. (I say all this as a point of interest, but I don't drink coffee myself.)

mortos 2y ago
That's interesting, it's something I haven't really thought about. There is some desire for less caffeine as it adds bitterness. Eugenioides, a parent species to arabica the commonly cultivated species, inherently has less caffeine and is said to have a remarkably sweet cup. It's had some attention in barista competitions in the last few years.
- klausa 2y ago
  Eugenioides is sweet in a way that no other coffee I ever had is sweet. You sometimes see "sweet" as an axis of flavor of coffee, or as a tasting note on a bag of fancy beans; but eugenioides is very different. It's _the_ dominant note in that cup, and it is much less fruity or floral, it's just... sweet. You taste the sweetness, and then the rest of the "typical" coffee notes come in the background, but much less pronounced than usual. I've seen people describe it as a "cereal-like", and while I don't think I fully agree with that description, I do get where they're coming from. If you're a coffee person and ever see a bag of it on offer (and can afford it), I definitely recommend grabbing it — it's really, really unique (and quite rare!). (And I do not think this is in any way related to the caffeine content — otherwise most of decafs would be very sweet, and they obviously aren't).
  - shepherdjerred 2y ago
    When you say sweet, is that because the coffee has more sugar, or are there just other compounds? I guess what I’m asking is what’s the difference between what you’re describing and making a regular good cup of coffee and adding a teaspoon of sugar?

jessekv 2y ago

> In Asia and Australia, people tend to prefer tea. Maybe, but Taiwan and Australia have some of the best coffee these days.

AnotherGoodName 2y ago
As an Australian i thought that was weird since we clearly favor coffee and have a very proud coffee culture so i looked it up. Turns out that statement is completely false. We drink more coffee than tea which matches my anecdotal experience. https://www.statista.com/forecasts/1399769/australia-regularly-consumed-beverages https://www.statista.com/forecasts/1399769/australia-regular...
- diob 2y ago
  Yeah, given you bump into a different coffee shop every 100ft in Melbourne, I'd be surprised if tea was winning.
- unwind 2y ago
  Yeah, the 'flat white' espresso/milk drink which is now sold all over the world is from Australia. I guess coming up with a new drink that appeals to people enough to go global happens easier in a place with a coffee culture. As a Swede who enjoys the occasional flat white: thanks, Australia! :)
sampullman 2y ago
Not to mention Vietnam and Indonesia, which are the second and third largest coffee producers in the world.
m3kw9 2y ago
They all import same coffee from south america/africa regions

FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago

Robusta is doing just fine... https://www.anthropocenemagazine.org/2024/08/coffee-is-threatened-by-climate-change-the-solution-may-be-closer-at-hand-than-we-thought/ https://www.anthropocenemagazine.org/2024/08/coffee-is-threa...

jtbayly 2y ago
If, as the article says, you like instant coffee, then great.
- FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
  Vietnam seems to like it, fine. Pretty popular in France and Germany, too. If you have ever had Bustelo, then you've had it.
- 6177c40f 2y ago
  Robusta is great if you don't go with the low quality stuff. Good quality Vietnamese Robusta is very enjoyable (and much higher in caffeine than Arabica, which I think is a nice bonus). There's also the possibility of hybridizing Robusta and Arabica to get the best traits of both. A few hybrid varieties, such as Catimor, have existed on the market for a while. AFAIK Catimor has some of the hardiness of its parent Robusta. As always, you'll have the best experience if you buy whole beans and grind them yourself (or at least find a supermarket that lets you grind beans fresh). No instant coffee that currently exists will be able to compete with that.

chris_va 2y ago

It is amazing how inefficient water use seems to be in plants. Dry biomass growth is ~1kg/m^2/year, wet maybe 4-5x that. But they see ~1m of rainfall, so 1000kg/m^2/year of water. The roots fail to take up some, but the rest seems to be ~99% lost due to transpiration (some of which is necessary for heat stress and/or pump up nutrients). Maybe after C4 rice we can get C4/CAM coffee?

foundart 2y ago
Transpiration by plants, especially in large forested areas like the Amazon, plays an important role in creating future rainfall

briandear 2y ago

Coffee crop failures have been around as long as there have been coffee crops, this idea that current coffee could go extinct is silly. Ideal locations for growing coffee can change and evolve over time, but an extinction event? C’mon. If that were to happen, there would be any people left to care. Literally everything is blamed on climate change these days. Too much snow? Climate change. Too little snow? Also climate change. A few years ago I was climbing Mont Blanc and the rockfall due to a warmer winter was blamed on climate change, then a few years later: near-record snow. It’s taking on religious overtones: rather than things happening because it’s God’s will — now it’s “climate.” I am not denying that the climate changes, I am only calling out that literally every mishap in the natural world is being blamed on it. There is a lot of money in that business.

jpalawaga 2y ago
So you're not denying climate change, just the effects of it. I'm not sure that's any better. We call it climate change because warmer weather produces higher variance in weather patterns--you're adding entropy into the system. Overall warmer, but more rain (and mud/rockslides), more wind, more lightning, etc etc.
- rmah 2y ago
  As I read it, he's not denying the effects either. He's just saying that not everything bad that happens wrt climate and weather is due to "climate change". Sometimes, it's just variations, which have always happened.
  - ars 2y ago
    These days everything is blamed on climate change. And when people point out natural variation, they get bashed. A recent example is the CA fires, there is zero evidence linking them to climate change - they did a study and found no effect - which of course was reported as "climate change to blame".
    - inetknght 2y ago

doodlebugging 2y ago

Maybe the answer is for someone to work on boosting natural caffeine levels in yaupon holly tea. It grows wild all over the SE US and can withstand multi-year drought or regular floods though it does best in a situation where it gets regular rainfall. You may have some in your own yard used as a hedge plant. I have several large trees on my place. It spreads underground by suckers and will take over an area if you do nothing to contain it. It is very strong once it forms a thicket. I have driven across a yaupon thicket in a seismic buggy and been in a situation where none of the tires were touching the ground as I drove because I was crossing a thick tangle of yaupon that supported the vehicle. Caffeine levels are lower than coffee beans (40-60 mg versus >150 mg I think). Yaupon does also have theobromines, vasodilators, that are supposed to help it prevent the caffeine crash. I have some leaves dried and drink it make a tea occasionally when I want a boost but not a cup of coffee level boost. It tastes great and is easy to prepare at home. [0]https://yauponbrothers.com/blogs/news/is-yaupon-better-than-coffee-yes https://yauponbrothers.com/blogs/news/is-yaupon-better-than-... There are other sources of information about yaupon holly. It is proposed that the British naturalist who discovered Native Americans using it in their own ceremonies and drinking it casually decided to name it ilex vomitoria not because it was dangerous or poisonous to consume but because since it grew wild in the colonies, it could be a serious competitor to English tea so he used the name to make it less attractive.

sriacha 2y ago
There are so many interesting native plants that provide alternatives to our extremely rigid globalized food systems. Also to note Ilex vomitoria is in the same genus as yerba mate, Ilex paraguariensis.
- jfarina 2y ago
  Can you rebrand a species? Drinking vomitoria sounds less than appetizing.
  - WrongAssumption 2y ago
    Yes you can. See Patagonian Toothfish -> Chilean Seabass.

awaymazdacx5 2y ago

Caffeine mgs for various brewed extracts can be lower than a cup of coffee. Even decaf still contains <.002mg, remain static over the designated beverage half-life. For third-wave, light roast blooms, containing more acid, the caffeine content is punctuated.

Henchman21 2y ago

The world is addicted to stimulants. It is very disheartening.

connicpu 2y ago
Some people just like the flavor, personally I drink a cup of decaf every evening. Of course, a LOT are addicted to caffeine. The most normalized addiction in the world ahead of alcohol and nicotine, although those are becoming more stigmatized over time.
- joquarky 2y ago
  Internet addiction is so normalized that you didn't even include it.
histriosum 2y ago
I personally love the taste of coffee. If decaffeinated were able to achieve the same flavors, I'd be quite happy with it. Unfortunately, it doesn't taste at all the same.
- Henchman21 2y ago
  I will not consume caffeine and tbh the rest of you need to slow down. Modern life runs on stimulants and caffeine is a whip at the back of the worker. I know this forum doesn’t give a damn about worker’s rights, but I do, and man I am tired of all this.
  - histriosum 2y ago
    Your personal choice is fine for you. My personal choice is to enjoy a cup or two of coffee per day, because I love the way it tastes, not because I want or need the caffeine. I currently don't have regular employment, as I am attempting a career change, but my coffee consumption doesn't change when I'm on a job. With respect, I think your worldview needs to widen out a bit. Just because there are lots of worker exploitation issues going on the world doesn't mean that everything fits in that lens. Some of us like coffee, and that doesn't mean it's because we like or accept a "whip at the back".

vmwareuser-020 2y ago

Liberica, which is already popularized in Malaysia, is another type of coffee that’s resistant to heat and droughts. I’m introducing some plants to a rural community in Panama that had its Robusta crops ruined by the harsh summers we’ve experienced over the past couple of years.

lycopodiopsida 2y ago
I've had some bags of liberica recently and it is very interesting. A lot of vanilla, overshadowing all other flavors. I prefer arabica, but I am also 100% for ending the arabica/robusta monocrop in favor of more coffee species. It certainly enriches coffee culture!

more_corn 2y ago

What a refreshing piece of long form journalism.

saunved_42 2y ago

This is a beautiful read into the history and novelties of coffee. I'd love to taste stenophylla some day

sgt 2y ago

Other coffee beans is intriguing. Often it's very obvious as to why Arabica won our hearts, though! A while back I tried a coffee bean called Racemosa. The beans are like tiny little pellets, and when you drink it your eyes will widen and go.. "WOW. HGRRRGH. EW. HMM.. INTERESTING. OK, NOT COFFEE AS WE KNOW IT."