6 ms·

This anti-DEI push is really ridiculous. If you want to elevate merit, go elevate merit. Find someone who is successful, uplift it. If they're a woman, or black

This anti-DEI push is really ridiculous. If you want to elevate merit, go elevate merit. Find someone who is successful, uplift it. If they're a woman, or black, or gay, or whatever, they get to write their story because they have merit. Instead we're in the "undoing work" environment that frankly reminds me of Soviet Russia or Maoist China. Hopefully we can emerge from this in a sort of "Deng Xiaoping moment".

fnordian_slip 2y ago
I think we don't have to continue to pretend it was ever about merit. If it was, the current government would not look like it does.
knighthack 2y ago
Somehow an anti-DEI push is "ridiculous", but the prior pro-DEI push isn't? There are those who were successful without merit, achieved renown/success only because they were DEI tokens. Therefore if they didn't deserve their 'achievements' by the merits in the first place, there's nothing wrong with taking their stories down once the political climates have changed (especially a climate that encourages truth and merits over the political advantage that got those DEI tokens in in the first place).
- filoeleven 2y ago
  > There are those who were successful without merit, achieved renown/success only because they were DEI tokens Can you cite some examples?
  - _mlbt 2y ago
    Kamala Harris
- John23832 2y ago
  I don't think that you're genuine in your response. > Therefore if they didn't deserve their 'achievements' by the merits in the first place, there's nothing wrong with taking their stories down once the political climates have changed (especially a climate that encourages truth and merits over the political advantage that got those DEI tokens in in the first place). Who hasn't earned what? You tell me. The majority of the current administration are people who were put into positions of power with no merit. I can say pretty much all of the Trump administration cabinet nominees have no experience in the positions they are in. They're receiving sycophantic rewards. I'm arguing to reward merit genuinely and that undoing work is regressive. You respond with "what about" (and no evidence).
  - TylerLives 2y ago
    I don't think years of experience is a good measure of merit. If you believe they're worse at their jobs, you should demonstrate that in some other way.
    - John23832 2y ago
      > I don't think years of experience is a good measure of merit. I didn't point out years, you did. Any relevant experience. Though, merit is effectively a function of years of experience baring extreme circumstances. > If you believe they're worse at their jobs, you should demonstrate that in some other way. While I do think that they are effectively worse at their jobs, you're asserting that I said something that I didn't. I said they in the positions without merit. Which they all are. Linda McMahon has no education experience. RFK has no health experience. Kash Patel has no law enforcement experience. Hegseth has no DOD experience. You can't say meritless those guys (dei) bad, but meritless our guys (Maga) good with any sort of consistency. And that's assuming that all of the dei guys are meritless. I can point to many who were of merit, but not sychopants, thus removed.
      - TylerLives 2y ago
        >Any relevant experience I think it comes down to how well you think the government functioned prior to Trump. If you believe that it was terrible, then having experience in the old system can be seen as a negative. Btw I don't think you're entirely wrong in your concerns. I dislike both DEI and RFK's ideas. Unfortunately the question still remains, how can we find the best people for the job? I think the medical industry is incredibly corrupt and at the same time don't believe Joe Rogan will find a solution to this problem. Imo, the only solution is to fix the existing institutions, but I'm not sure how that can be done.
      - _mlbt 2y ago
        > Hegseth has no DOD experience. He was an Army officer that served in combat missions during the Global War on Terror, how is that not DOD experience?
- yokoprime 2y ago
  Please provide sources
TylerLives 2y ago
The two are incompatible. You're either hiring based on race, gender, sexual identity etc. or based on merit. Firing people who got hired because of racist and sexist DEI practices increases merit.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  I don’t think you fully understand what DEI means and what organisations do to improve in that regard. For instance, masking name (sometimes a good proxy for race) and gender in candidate assessments is a DEI measure and increases representation of marginalised groups. Did you know telescope time for minorities improved when reviewers couldn’t see the name of the scientist in the proposal? That’s DEI. DEI means to work in removing biases that limit access of minorities to opportunities. When it works, being a white male doesn’t get confused with merit, as it usually is. Lots of people think this is discrimination, because their group isn’t being hired as much as before when, in fact, it’s just the removal of discrimination against others.
  - TylerLives 2y ago
    That's maybe 1% of DEI. The other 99% is stuff like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33165844 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33165844 and making characters in video games ugly
    - filoeleven 2y ago
      > and making characters in video games ugly. In what way?
      - TylerLives 2y ago
        This is a good video on the topic https://youtu.be/F7-18qCOfJo https://youtu.be/F7-18qCOfJo You can skip the first 13:40.
        rbanffy 2y ago

fnordian_slip 2y ago

I think we don't have to continue to pretend it was ever about merit. If it was, the current government would not look like it does.

knighthack 2y ago

Somehow an anti-DEI push is "ridiculous", but the prior pro-DEI push isn't? There are those who were successful without merit, achieved renown/success only because they were DEI tokens. Therefore if they didn't deserve their 'achievements' by the merits in the first place, there's nothing wrong with taking their stories down once the political climates have changed (especially a climate that encourages truth and merits over the political advantage that got those DEI tokens in in the first place).

filoeleven 2y ago
> There are those who were successful without merit, achieved renown/success only because they were DEI tokens Can you cite some examples?
- _mlbt 2y ago
  Kamala Harris
John23832 2y ago
I don't think that you're genuine in your response. > Therefore if they didn't deserve their 'achievements' by the merits in the first place, there's nothing wrong with taking their stories down once the political climates have changed (especially a climate that encourages truth and merits over the political advantage that got those DEI tokens in in the first place). Who hasn't earned what? You tell me. The majority of the current administration are people who were put into positions of power with no merit. I can say pretty much all of the Trump administration cabinet nominees have no experience in the positions they are in. They're receiving sycophantic rewards. I'm arguing to reward merit genuinely and that undoing work is regressive. You respond with "what about" (and no evidence).
- TylerLives 2y ago
  I don't think years of experience is a good measure of merit. If you believe they're worse at their jobs, you should demonstrate that in some other way.
  - John23832 2y ago
    > I don't think years of experience is a good measure of merit. I didn't point out years, you did. Any relevant experience. Though, merit is effectively a function of years of experience baring extreme circumstances. > If you believe they're worse at their jobs, you should demonstrate that in some other way. While I do think that they are effectively worse at their jobs, you're asserting that I said something that I didn't. I said they in the positions without merit. Which they all are. Linda McMahon has no education experience. RFK has no health experience. Kash Patel has no law enforcement experience. Hegseth has no DOD experience. You can't say meritless those guys (dei) bad, but meritless our guys (Maga) good with any sort of consistency. And that's assuming that all of the dei guys are meritless. I can point to many who were of merit, but not sychopants, thus removed.
    - TylerLives 2y ago
      >Any relevant experience I think it comes down to how well you think the government functioned prior to Trump. If you believe that it was terrible, then having experience in the old system can be seen as a negative. Btw I don't think you're entirely wrong in your concerns. I dislike both DEI and RFK's ideas. Unfortunately the question still remains, how can we find the best people for the job? I think the medical industry is incredibly corrupt and at the same time don't believe Joe Rogan will find a solution to this problem. Imo, the only solution is to fix the existing institutions, but I'm not sure how that can be done.
    - _mlbt 2y ago
      > Hegseth has no DOD experience. He was an Army officer that served in combat missions during the Global War on Terror, how is that not DOD experience?
yokoprime 2y ago
Please provide sources

TylerLives 2y ago

The two are incompatible. You're either hiring based on race, gender, sexual identity etc. or based on merit. Firing people who got hired because of racist and sexist DEI practices increases merit.

rbanffy 2y ago
I don’t think you fully understand what DEI means and what organisations do to improve in that regard. For instance, masking name (sometimes a good proxy for race) and gender in candidate assessments is a DEI measure and increases representation of marginalised groups. Did you know telescope time for minorities improved when reviewers couldn’t see the name of the scientist in the proposal? That’s DEI. DEI means to work in removing biases that limit access of minorities to opportunities. When it works, being a white male doesn’t get confused with merit, as it usually is. Lots of people think this is discrimination, because their group isn’t being hired as much as before when, in fact, it’s just the removal of discrimination against others.
- TylerLives 2y ago
  That's maybe 1% of DEI. The other 99% is stuff like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33165844 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33165844 and making characters in video games ugly
  - filoeleven 2y ago
    > and making characters in video games ugly. In what way?
    - TylerLives 2y ago
      This is a good video on the topic https://youtu.be/F7-18qCOfJo https://youtu.be/F7-18qCOfJo You can skip the first 13:40.
      - rbanffy 2y ago