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US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back
- onemoresoop 2y agoTrump admin looks closer and closer to nazi germany.
- actionfromafar 2y agoOr maybe, more like Mao. The culture war going IRL. ("Make China great again" already occurred, in the 1960s.)
- nroets 2y agoPlease go read up what happened outside Krakow, Poland in the 1940s. I did. I actually visited. Trump is still very very far away from that. Assuming this man is innocent, we should rather blame El Salvador for actually imprisoning him.
- thiht 2y agoNazis came in power in 1933, not 1940. Give it time, MAGA has only been in power for 3 months. There's 4 more years (at least) of more and more unhinged Trumpisms to come.
- BLKNSLVR 2y ago> Assuming this man is innocent, we should rather blame El Salvador for actually imprisoning him. No! Trump bypassed due process intentionally and quickly (and illegally) so that the courts, which ruled it illegal, couldn't pass the ruling in time to stop the flights. We should blame Trump and all of the chain of command beneath him that took part in it.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- jahnu 2y agoA lesson that is supposed to be learned is not to wait until the camps have been built.
- croes 2y agoWhat happened in Germany 1933? Its only 3 month since Trump became president.
- nroets 2y ago1933 isn't what the Nazis were known for. Many countries had coups or abandoned democracy or rule of law. Calling someone a Nazi is saying he's a mass murderer. Don't cry wolf!
- croes 2y agoHitler wrote Mein Kampf 1924, they weren’t called Nazi back then because they hadn’t committed the mass murders yet, but they already had the mindset. A Nazi isn’t already a murderer but someone who sees himself as a superior race and others as Untermensch. Many Nazis didn’t kill anyone but were ok with it.
- boroboro4 2y agoIf you’re planning to start protesting only when something similar to 1940s Germany would happen I have very bad news for you. I, personally, will try to leave the country around 1936, and will try to keep protesting until then.
- lynx97 2y ago[flagged]
- andxor 2y agoLuckily some other countries have free speech.
- croes 2y agoNot the US, there everything has a price tag.
- fabian2k 2y agoAn inappropriate comparison to Nazis would not be illegal even in Germany. Those laws are by far not as broad as you imply here.
- anigbrowl 2y agoQuite - the German press has made the same association in text and on magazine covers multiple times in recent years, and it would be smart to take their perspective into account. GP seems to be rhetorical brinksmanship though.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- bananapub 2y agoit's not an "accident" if you randomly round up people based on nothing, then exile them to a foreign slave prison, it was a deliberate series of steps to terrify these people and everyone else.
- pjc50 2y agoYup. The whole setup is built around taking away legal recourse from people so they can be mistreated. It's Guantanamo squared. Also derived from the UK's failed Rwanda scheme (failed because they couldn't bypass the courts enough!), Windrush errors, and the Australian government's use of immigration detention on Nauru. Sooner or later it's going to happen to someone who's a full US national. (mind you this is going to get flagged off by Trump supporters and politics avoiders)
- rbanffy 2y agoI don't think avoiding politics is much of an option.
- RandomBacon 2y ago> mind you this is going to get flagged off by If you get flagged, it might just be because you're violating the HN guidelines with the part of your comment I replied to.
- nroets 2y ago[flagged]
- fabian2k 2y agoThis is more like driving at very high speeds, closing your eyes and then being surprised you caused an accident. They are ignoring all the usual checks safety mechanisms and the legal rights of the people they are sending to a prison in El Salvador that would usually apply.
- amarcheschi 2y agoThat's... why there should be a due process with thorough checks before something like this happens - it might as well happen with tough checks, but up until now we've seen scenes of people being detained by masked officers not willing to identify or to explain the situation
- GasKikes88 2y ago[dead]
- actionfromafar 2y ago"Can't" = "makes no effort at all, not even a mail or a phone call". Be aware though - as soon as anyone ends up in El Salvador (or wherever), it apparently doesn't matter if any "accidents" were had. What's done, is done. This is incredibly convenient if you want to trim the opposition a little.
- Terr_ 2y ago> The Trump administration argues that because the man is no longer in U.S. custody, a U.S. court lacks jurisdiction to issue orders regarding his detention and release. That's evil and stupid. By that twisted logic, the President can ship all the gold in Fort Knox to a Russian bank under his own name, and US courts "won't have jurisdiction" to rule that it must be returned.
- mcv 2y agoThat's also how the US used to justify torture in Guantanamo Bay. It wasn't US soil, so the prisoners there didn't have the rights and protections that US law and constitution would otherwise give them.
- ZeroGravitas 2y agoEven then I believe they avoided even transiting via US soil to maintain this thin figleaf of legal protection for torture.
- pjc50 2y agoGuantanamo Bay is the real bipartisan moral stain here. It was set up exactly to cause this kind of situation, for the extralegal punishment of people deemed to be terrorists. People claim that Obama "couldn't" close it, but I think DOGE have demonstrated with USAID that the President absolutely could have closed it by executive order and simply cutting off the pay of everyone there.
- krapp 2y ago>but I think DOGE have demonstrated with USAID that the President absolutely could have closed it by executive order and simply cutting off the pay of everyone there You're assuming the system would have been as compliant with Obama as they are with Trump, but I doubt that would have been the case. Congress passed a law to make it illegal for Obama to close Gitmo and simply refused to allow it, but their hands are mysteriously tied WRT Trump and DOGE.
- lores 2y agoImplement Lex Talionis for gross misconduct in public office. Did an official, through gross negligence, cause irreparable harm to innocents? Mete the same harm upon them; then empathy may stop being a weakness. /s, but I became less sure of it as I typed.
- occamrazor 2y agoFYI: Lex, not Rex. But a Rex Talionis is an interesting concept too.
- memtet 2y ago[dead]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- memtet 2y ago[dead]
- fabian2k 2y agoIt's not an accident if the government intentionally circumvents all checks that usually would apply to cases like this and denies them due process. It's also intentional that they send these people to a prison in a different country (and for most of them not the country they are originally from) with conditions that would certainly be illegal in the US itself. This is also about more than just this single case. From the little we know so far it seems that being from Venezuela and having any kind of tattoo is sufficient to be targeted.
- facile3232 2y ago> with conditions that would certainly be illegal in the US itself. Why would you assume this? We're also under investigation for human rights abuses in our prisons. AFAIK most of the rights you have as a prisoner are civil rights.
- BLKNSLVR 2y agoThe US seems to treat its successful citizens incredibly well, but punish its failures incredibly harshly. Your point is valid.
- bestouff 2y agoI wouldn't be so sure about the successful citizens. You probably have to be WASP cis male to maximize your chances.
- throw310822 2y agoYeah, wasp cis males such as Sam Altman or Peter Thiel or Brin, Page, Zuckerberg, Cook, Nadella, Pichai, Huang...
- facile3232 2y ago[flagged]
- BLKNSLVR 2y agoAccidents like this are required in order to demonstrate the scale of the "will" behind the power. This should be a un-ignorable reminder of the value of due process. Better a guilty person go free than an innocent person sent to their long, slow, undignified death.
- ReptileMan 2y ago>This should be a un-ignorable reminder of the value of due process I agree with you. Now explain how can we scale the due process to deport everyone that entered here illegally in a reasonable timeframe. 15-30 million hearings will take a century to be resolved. The system is not designed for such massive load in mind.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- BLKNSLVR 2y agoIf it's so important to get done quickly, hire more people to do it. Move resources to solve the most pressing problems first. Otherwise let law/justice take as long as law/justice takes.
- ReptileMan 2y ago>Otherwise let law/justice take as long as law/justice takes. Once again I agree with you. Let's deport them first and make remote immigration courts in every US embassy. This way they have remedy for false positives, and let law/justice take as long as law/justice takes
- BLKNSLVR 2y agoBut how do you know who to deport without due process? Papers please? (you answered above: Papers Please it is.)
- 2y ago
- mcv 2y agoThis is why due process is essential for everybody. The moment you deny it to one group, you can deny it to anyone by claiming they're in that one group.
- jrs235 2y agoI do believe the whole concept of beyond A reasonable doubt was based upon the belief that it is better for 10 guilty men to go free than for one innocent man to suffer. What is happening is a slap in the face of our foundational principles and justice system.
- timeon 2y ago> I do believe the whole concept of beyond A reasonable doubt was based upon the belief that it is better for 10 guilty men to go free than for one innocent man to suffer. Societies that do believe in this do not have capital punishment. It seems to me from the outside that US have different priorities. Like with school-shootings - apparently that is worth it there.
- xracy 2y agoAt the very least this has been a hotly contested conversation for a while in the US. I do still believe it's a founding principle of the US' legal system.
- mcv 2y agoIt is, but as with many founding principles of the US, they don't always live up to them. I mean, Thomas Jefferson said it was self-evident that every man was created equal and had the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, yet he kept people as property in slavery. That just about sums up American theory vs practice. Same with the legal system: plenty of innocent people have been executed despite it being pretty clear they were innocent, simply because the legal system didn't allow the case to be reopened to handle the new evidence.
- defrost 2y agoSee also: An 'Administrative Error' Sends a Maryland Father to a Salvadoran Prison (theatlantic.com) 90 points | 6 hours ago | 24 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43542333 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43542333
- ravenstine 2y agoMy first thought seeing this headline: "Please don't tell me he got sent to CECOT." > Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) admitted to mistakenly sending Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia to El Salvador’s notoriously brutal CECOT prison. :O If you haven't heard of CECOT, go watch one of the recent YouTube videos on it. I'm glad that El Salvador has taken control over gang activity but, man, CECOT is one of the last places on earth you want to end up.
- forinti 2y agoI just hope that the images we get are for show and that normally they let human beings actually walk upright and don't slap them around willy-nilly.
- spacemadness 2y agoSounds like the perfect place to send people when you want to scare people into feigning support for you and to fear you. You know, like a fascist dictator would do.
- tastyface 2y ago> I'm glad that El Salvador has taken control over gang activity > Abrego Garcia’s family has had no contact with him since he was sent to the megaprison in El Salvador, known as the CECOT. His wife spotted her husband in news photographs released by Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele on the morning of March 16, after a U.S. District Judge had told the Trump administration to halt the flights. “Oopsie,” Bukele wrote on social media, taunting the judge. The man is nothing more than a tyrant with a smile, and now his concentration camp will be used to house whoever pays him or gets in his way, not just alleged gang members. He's already in power unconstitutionally: https://apnews.com/article/el-salvador-elections-bukele-democracy-cdd844130585ff5baa0b5c828ffc2541 https://apnews.com/article/el-salvador-elections-bukele-demo... Now it may take decades for Salvadorans to rid themselves of this dictatorship.
- jmpman 2y agoIf the person was an actual US citizen, they wouldn’t be able to get them back? Now they were able to exchange an arms dealer for a pot smoking basketball player in Russia. Why can’t they do the same in Salvador?
- decremental 2y ago[dead]
- namaria 2y ago> ICE maintains that a confidential informant told the agency the man was a member of MS-13 Well this is horrifying.
- ninjin 2y agoIndeed. If only there was some sort of process where there would be fact finding and ultimately be put beyond all reasonable doubt whether a claim like this is true before sending someone off to prison. Even better, there ought to be a constitution or maybe even universal declaration guaranteeing such a process.
- croes 2y agoThe same kind of informants who identified the prisoners for Guantanamo.
- BLKNSLVR 2y agoThere are growing numbers of informants, admittedly though these are off-current-topic: Canary Mission: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/rumeysa-ozturk-tufts-canary-mission.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/rumeysa-ozturk-tufts... Betar US: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/3/25/what-is-betar-us-the-group-pushing-to-deport-pro-palestinian-students https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/3/25/what-is-betar-us-th... It's a low bar, just so long as you're informing on a group that's not in lock-step with Trump's agenda.
- SauciestGNU 2y agoCanary and Betar need to be held socially and legally responsible for the harms they are causing. And if they do have links to Israeli intelligence, they should be criminally tried for espionage and violating FARA.
- sebazzz 2y agoThe “foreign agent” card.
- OutOfHere 2y agoIt doesn't make any sense that he can't be brought back. Even if he's an illegal immigrant, at least he should be released as conditions in El Salvador have improved for civilians since when he was last in it.
- BLKNSLVR 2y agoThought bubble only, so maybe this doesn't belong on HN. There's a possibility he's dead already, and so the current administration or El Salvador or both are stalling for time long enough that the media cycle moves on to something else.
- ahoka 2y agoBetter source: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69777799/1/abrego-garcia-v-noem/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69777799/1/abrego-garci...
- croes 2y agoThat’s the most vicious part > sent a Salvadorian immigrant to a notorious Salvadorian prison >the man had protected immigration status in the U.S., specifically barring him from being sent back to that country for fear of persecution.
- disqard 2y agoThe cruelty is the point.
- bufferoverflow 2y agoNo sympathy for MS-13 gang members.
- UncleMeat 2y agoYeah, throw all the people who like the Chicago Bulls into a pit for the rest of their lives /s.
- croes 2y agoStrange how tariffs and sanctions are suddenly not an option, especially because the US pays El Salvador to imprison the Venezuelan „gang members“
- Gasser8 2y ago[flagged]
- llm_nerd 2y agoOf course they can get him back. If you've looked on Twitter at the account of the president of El Salvador, the guy is a lickspittle fanboy of Trump and Musk and is absolutely desperate to have their attention. If they tell him to jump he'll ask how high and thank them for the command. I mean, he's running a slave prison for human trafficking victims charged with no crime and given no process, surrounded by such pathetic theatre it is banana republic levels of farce, so ultimately he should be captured by the ICC, and it will likely end up there. What the government means is that they don't want to get him back.
- Gud 2y agoWhoops!
- k3vinw 2y agoThe headline only tells half the story. This guy had previously been scheduled for deportation due to sufficient evidence that linked him to MS-13. It was an administrative error that he was deported to the wrong country. Here’s a link to the court case: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69777799/abrego-garcia-v-noem/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69777799/abrego-garcia-...
- boroboro4 2y agoThe man was (at this particular moment) protected from being deported, the deportation was completely unlawful. And if you care to read court fillings the proof of the man being gang member is: - Plaintiff Abrego Garcia was wearing a Chicago Bulls hat and a hoodie. - A confidential informant claimed he was an active member of MS-13 with the "Westerns" clique (which operates in New York, where Garcia never lived).
- k3vinw 2y agoExcept he was here illegally. So that protection was meaningless.
- anigbrowl 2y ago'Sufficient evidence' in this case being an allegation from a confidential informant. If you settle for low standards you will get lower and lower quality outcomes.
- fastusdt 2y ago[dead]
- tastyface 2y agoThe Trump administration wants summary execution of undesirables, but there's currently no political will for that. So they dump their dragnet detainees into a hole in another country and pretend it's not possible for them to come out anymore. That's why they won't deport to countries of origin or try to get the innocent ones back. They need to maintain the illusion of an irreversible process. It's sickening.
- bernhart 2y agoI would like to remind the people in the us that at some point they will come for you too.
- slater 2y agoI voted for the "Leopards eating faces" party, so I'm pretty sure I'm good. But thank you for your concern!
- aoeusnth1 2y agoOf course, this is flagged by the reactionary contingent on this site.