5 ms·

Conservative leaning newspapers weren't always total dogshit and good reporting is good reporting, regardless of ideology. This is a belief that you don't seem

Conservative leaning newspapers weren't always total dogshit and good reporting is good reporting, regardless of ideology. This is a belief that you don't seem to share, given you make out ideology to be the problem as opposed to the quality of the journalism itself. Very shallow thinking and it's a perfect exemplification of poor media literacy.

DeathArrow 2y ago
Good reporting is not skewed by ideology. Good reporting is presenting facts about all sides. Good reporting is not about demonizing your perceived enemies while excessively praising your idols.
- bigbacaloa 2y ago
  "Good reporting is presenting facts about all sides." Nonsense. Good reporting is about carefully filtering the evidence and reporting the essential stuff. Sometimes that's heavily skewed to one "side" or the other. What's suspicious is when it's always the same side.
  - raxxorraxor 2y ago
    This is more precise but you probably mean the same thing. Just that discussion has degraded toward the idea that there are always political sides to every fact, the "everything is political" crowd.
- thesumofall 2y ago
  Unfortunately, in today‘s world facts are interpreted as ideology. Take climate change: with the given scientific consensus you don’t need to „present all sides.“ A factually correct report will present the consensus. And still, some people will take this as „ideological.“
  - mojuba 2y ago
    There is no "scientific consensus" on things like the Israel-Palestine war. It's incredibly difficult to be impartial on some of this type of issues. You could say humanism is the absolute variable good journalists could stick to, but the Guardian seems to be going beyond that, deeper into the left ideology. I'm still a big fan, regular reader and supporter of the Guardian, but I do at times skip over some of their more openly leftist pieces.
- chgs 2y ago
  Journalism isn’t getting one person to say it’s raining and one person to say it’s not raining. It’s to look out the window and report reality.
  - thworp 2y ago
    You look out the window and see rain. I see light drizzle. A journalist writes about meeting a subject of his article in a "raging autumn storm".
  - hk__2 2y ago
    "Reality" is subjective and not always so easy to observe. What about political debates, economy, social issues? I don’t want to read a journal that tell me "this politician said that", but one that tells me _why_ they said it, in which context, if this is "right" or wrong, why, what does the other side says, etc. (all of this thread resonates well with my last HN submission btw: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43538847 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43538847 )
    - raxxorraxor 2y ago
      If reality is subjective it must be objective too.
- lordnacho 2y ago
  With all due respect, this strikes me as a middle school opinion on how media should work. > Good reporting is not skewed by ideology. You can't not have a perspective. You can be upfront about what your perspective is, while giving reasonable time to other perspectives. > Good reporting is presenting facts about all sides. Here I think the school-age lessons about what is fact and what is opinion does us all a massive disservice. > Good reporting is not about demonizing your perceived enemies while excessively praising your idols. If you can make a good argument supporting your demonization or praise, why not?
  - raxxorraxor 2y ago
    I believe you are wrong about what quality reporting is about. Journalism degraded because of the economic situation they find themselves in, but also because the school of journalism degraded. Maybe as a reaction to economic woes, but it certainly didn't not revolutionize the craft and instead did away with some quality aspects. > school-age lessons You could elaborate on this "argument", but we would probably disagree about the problems of modern journalism. > If you can make a good argument supporting your demonization or praise, why not? Because this is a more or less proof you didn't write an article to inform the reader and that you had other aspirations. You also lose the trust of your readers, but of course you always can work from the minima some papers find themselves in. Boulevard can be economically viable. Be that as it may, to be a successful journalist is difficult today. And if you are too successful, you probably have a lot of enemies in your own trade.
concordDance 2y ago
I'd put the Telegraph as the right wing equivalent of the Guardian. Biased in the opposite direction but relatively reliable too.
- te_chris 2y ago
  The telegraph is split brained where the reportage is excellent and the comment and opinion is the worst, shrill, reactionary.
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    The Guardian can have that tendency as well.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  It _used_ to be, possibly, but it really went off the rails a bit during Brexit.
- graemep 2y ago
  and what they do have in common (although the guardian has become less so recently) is that they both do publish some opinions that greatly dissent from their editorial line.
- WickyNilliams 2y ago
  The Telegraph pumps out a lot of culture war trash now. You could argue the guardian pumps out a lot of socially liberal stuff, but I'm not sure it actively engages in culture war stoking.
- pjc50 2y ago
  The Telegraph has long been compromised: https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/peter-oborne-resignation-senior-writer-quits-telegraph-dramatically-over-hsbc-allegations/ https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/peter-ob... Having James Delingpole as climate change denial columnnist also is really unimpressive.
- lores 2y ago

DeathArrow 2y ago

Good reporting is not skewed by ideology. Good reporting is presenting facts about all sides. Good reporting is not about demonizing your perceived enemies while excessively praising your idols.

bigbacaloa 2y ago
"Good reporting is presenting facts about all sides." Nonsense. Good reporting is about carefully filtering the evidence and reporting the essential stuff. Sometimes that's heavily skewed to one "side" or the other. What's suspicious is when it's always the same side.
- raxxorraxor 2y ago
  This is more precise but you probably mean the same thing. Just that discussion has degraded toward the idea that there are always political sides to every fact, the "everything is political" crowd.
thesumofall 2y ago
Unfortunately, in today‘s world facts are interpreted as ideology. Take climate change: with the given scientific consensus you don’t need to „present all sides.“ A factually correct report will present the consensus. And still, some people will take this as „ideological.“
- mojuba 2y ago
  There is no "scientific consensus" on things like the Israel-Palestine war. It's incredibly difficult to be impartial on some of this type of issues. You could say humanism is the absolute variable good journalists could stick to, but the Guardian seems to be going beyond that, deeper into the left ideology. I'm still a big fan, regular reader and supporter of the Guardian, but I do at times skip over some of their more openly leftist pieces.
chgs 2y ago
Journalism isn’t getting one person to say it’s raining and one person to say it’s not raining. It’s to look out the window and report reality.
- thworp 2y ago
  You look out the window and see rain. I see light drizzle. A journalist writes about meeting a subject of his article in a "raging autumn storm".
- hk__2 2y ago
  "Reality" is subjective and not always so easy to observe. What about political debates, economy, social issues? I don’t want to read a journal that tell me "this politician said that", but one that tells me _why_ they said it, in which context, if this is "right" or wrong, why, what does the other side says, etc. (all of this thread resonates well with my last HN submission btw: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43538847 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43538847 )
  - raxxorraxor 2y ago
    If reality is subjective it must be objective too.
lordnacho 2y ago
With all due respect, this strikes me as a middle school opinion on how media should work. > Good reporting is not skewed by ideology. You can't not have a perspective. You can be upfront about what your perspective is, while giving reasonable time to other perspectives. > Good reporting is presenting facts about all sides. Here I think the school-age lessons about what is fact and what is opinion does us all a massive disservice. > Good reporting is not about demonizing your perceived enemies while excessively praising your idols. If you can make a good argument supporting your demonization or praise, why not?
- raxxorraxor 2y ago
  I believe you are wrong about what quality reporting is about. Journalism degraded because of the economic situation they find themselves in, but also because the school of journalism degraded. Maybe as a reaction to economic woes, but it certainly didn't not revolutionize the craft and instead did away with some quality aspects. > school-age lessons You could elaborate on this "argument", but we would probably disagree about the problems of modern journalism. > If you can make a good argument supporting your demonization or praise, why not? Because this is a more or less proof you didn't write an article to inform the reader and that you had other aspirations. You also lose the trust of your readers, but of course you always can work from the minima some papers find themselves in. Boulevard can be economically viable. Be that as it may, to be a successful journalist is difficult today. And if you are too successful, you probably have a lot of enemies in your own trade.

concordDance 2y ago

I'd put the Telegraph as the right wing equivalent of the Guardian. Biased in the opposite direction but relatively reliable too.

te_chris 2y ago
The telegraph is split brained where the reportage is excellent and the comment and opinion is the worst, shrill, reactionary.
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  The Guardian can have that tendency as well.
rsynnott 2y ago
It _used_ to be, possibly, but it really went off the rails a bit during Brexit.
graemep 2y ago
and what they do have in common (although the guardian has become less so recently) is that they both do publish some opinions that greatly dissent from their editorial line.
WickyNilliams 2y ago
The Telegraph pumps out a lot of culture war trash now. You could argue the guardian pumps out a lot of socially liberal stuff, but I'm not sure it actively engages in culture war stoking.
pjc50 2y ago
The Telegraph has long been compromised: https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/peter-oborne-resignation-senior-writer-quits-telegraph-dramatically-over-hsbc-allegations/ https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/peter-ob... Having James Delingpole as climate change denial columnnist also is really unimpressive.
lores 2y ago