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> A lot of the Bible is tales of what incredibly evil people do, not an endorsement of those actions. Mostly agree, though not completely. There are actions t

> A lot of the Bible is tales of what incredibly evil people do, not an endorsement of those actions. Mostly agree, though not completely. There are actions that are kind of deemed "moral" that I don't think are good, e.g. Abraham being super willing to murder his son to make God happy. Or Moses killing all the first-born children of Egypt with the Angel of Death. That's pretty evil, and Abraham and Moses are kind of the "heroes" of those stories. I agree that there is wisdom to be found in there, and that it requires a level of maturity and literary understanding to parse that sometimes. It's a book written over the course of several hundred (thousands?) of years with hundreds of stories, it's not weird to think that there would be some good stuff in there. > The Bible is absolutely not suitable for children, except for choice parts. Yeah, I agree with that. The "do unto others" stuff is perfectly fine to teach to small children, and even stuff with slightly more nebulous but ultimately clever themes like the Prodigal Son are fine. I think I'd save the stuff about murdering and mutilating concubines until you're comfortable with them watching R-rated movies. That's not a dig in itself, though. My favorite movie of all time is Ghost in the Shell (1995). It's got lots of wisdom and cleverness and to me it's nearly perfect, but if I had kids I don't think I'd let them watch it until they were 13 or 14, even though I don't think that the themes in it are harmful or endorsing bad behavior.

thaumasiotes 2y ago
> I think I'd save the stuff about murdering and mutilating concubines until you're comfortable with them watching R-rated movies. Really? Do you feel the same way about Bluebeard? Cinderella? This isn't a rare motif in children's stories.
- tombert 2y ago
  I'm not sure I know what Bluebeard is, so I can't comment on that. The original somewhat gory Cinderella stories? I might wait until they're a bit older. I don't have kids, so this is all hypothetical, of course.
  - tmtvl 2y ago
    Bluebeard is a fairy tale about a lass who marries a guy called Bluebeard and he gives her the keys to his house and tells her not to go into one specific room and that room contains the bodies of his former wives. I might be misremembering it somewhat, but I believe that's the gist.
carlosjobim 2y ago
> Abraham being super willing to murder his son to make God happy. Sacrificing your own children is a human behaviour so common through history and with different cultures, that it's basically a biological instinct. Even today parents send their sons to die in industrialized war to prove their faith for the government, as well as sacrifice their children in ways that are less explicit than that - always to prove their faith and loyalty to the entity they worship religiously, whether that's a man worshipped as a god, or a disembodied concept that they worship, such as "the state". The story of Abraham is a way to break that spell. The primitive human instinct is to worship by giving gifts, and then naturally giving the greatest gift you can give to prove your faith, which is your child. I interpret the story of Abraham as a clever way to break one of the most evil and persistent traditions of humanity, which is child sacrifice. And the story is much more efficient than simply saying "You shouldn't sacrifice your own children". Put yourself in his shoes (there have probably been thousands of Abrahams through time). If he says "I'm not going to sacrifice my child", the tribespeople will say that his God is weak because Abraham dares to give less of a sacrifice than the best, or that Abraham puts his own desires in front of what's good for the tribe (pleasing God or any god). If God told him to sacrifice his son and God later changed his mind, that's another thing. The story puts an effective limit on the level of worship. Sacrifice animals sure, but don't sacrifice your own children. Human sacrifice and ritual cannibalistic wars of genocide is the natural condition of humans as a species. That is the simple answer to why humans existed for hundreds of thousands of years without making any progress before something strange happened and we became enlightened. Seeing as the Bible is a collection of stories that where told for thousands of years before being written down, I would think that there are entire generations and cultures who have live by those stories and commands for longer than the Bible has existed in any form. Pre-civilization tribes that we know nothing about. The Bible is our deepest probe into deep time, and absolutely fascinating.
- Capricorn2481 2y ago
  > The story of Abraham is a way to break that spell That's an extremely generous interpretation. You say the story is about breaking the cycle of pernicious child sacrifice. But there's nothing in the story that supports that view, you just said it because it's the most palatable interpretation of a straightforward story: Obey God, and he may give you mercy (not having to kill your kid). And you conveniently ignore Moses killing all the first-borns. > Human sacrifice and ritual cannibalistic wars of genocide is the natural condition of humans as a species There is no "ritual" wars without religion. Religion is what is natural to humanity, as it develops in every culture without fail. Whether you worship Jesus or the Sun, the belief in an afterlife if you follow the rules the last generation handled to you is what leads to terrible deeds, because you can justify anything. > The story puts an effective limit on the level of worship No, it doesn't. Many innocent people are sacrificed or ordered to be killed throughout the verses. Jephthah sacrifices his daughter. Saul is asked to kill women and children. > Seeing as the Bible is a collection of stories that where told for thousands of years before being written down If by told for a thousand years before being written down, you mean edited, distorted, and mistranslated to the convenience of whoever was in power at the time, yes.

thaumasiotes 2y ago

> I think I'd save the stuff about murdering and mutilating concubines until you're comfortable with them watching R-rated movies. Really? Do you feel the same way about Bluebeard? Cinderella? This isn't a rare motif in children's stories.

tombert 2y ago
I'm not sure I know what Bluebeard is, so I can't comment on that. The original somewhat gory Cinderella stories? I might wait until they're a bit older. I don't have kids, so this is all hypothetical, of course.
- tmtvl 2y ago
  Bluebeard is a fairy tale about a lass who marries a guy called Bluebeard and he gives her the keys to his house and tells her not to go into one specific room and that room contains the bodies of his former wives. I might be misremembering it somewhat, but I believe that's the gist.

carlosjobim 2y ago

> Abraham being super willing to murder his son to make God happy. Sacrificing your own children is a human behaviour so common through history and with different cultures, that it's basically a biological instinct. Even today parents send their sons to die in industrialized war to prove their faith for the government, as well as sacrifice their children in ways that are less explicit than that - always to prove their faith and loyalty to the entity they worship religiously, whether that's a man worshipped as a god, or a disembodied concept that they worship, such as "the state". The story of Abraham is a way to break that spell. The primitive human instinct is to worship by giving gifts, and then naturally giving the greatest gift you can give to prove your faith, which is your child. I interpret the story of Abraham as a clever way to break one of the most evil and persistent traditions of humanity, which is child sacrifice. And the story is much more efficient than simply saying "You shouldn't sacrifice your own children". Put yourself in his shoes (there have probably been thousands of Abrahams through time). If he says "I'm not going to sacrifice my child", the tribespeople will say that his God is weak because Abraham dares to give less of a sacrifice than the best, or that Abraham puts his own desires in front of what's good for the tribe (pleasing God or any god). If God told him to sacrifice his son and God later changed his mind, that's another thing. The story puts an effective limit on the level of worship. Sacrifice animals sure, but don't sacrifice your own children. Human sacrifice and ritual cannibalistic wars of genocide is the natural condition of humans as a species. That is the simple answer to why humans existed for hundreds of thousands of years without making any progress before something strange happened and we became enlightened. Seeing as the Bible is a collection of stories that where told for thousands of years before being written down, I would think that there are entire generations and cultures who have live by those stories and commands for longer than the Bible has existed in any form. Pre-civilization tribes that we know nothing about. The Bible is our deepest probe into deep time, and absolutely fascinating.

Capricorn2481 2y ago
> The story of Abraham is a way to break that spell That's an extremely generous interpretation. You say the story is about breaking the cycle of pernicious child sacrifice. But there's nothing in the story that supports that view, you just said it because it's the most palatable interpretation of a straightforward story: Obey God, and he may give you mercy (not having to kill your kid). And you conveniently ignore Moses killing all the first-borns. > Human sacrifice and ritual cannibalistic wars of genocide is the natural condition of humans as a species There is no "ritual" wars without religion. Religion is what is natural to humanity, as it develops in every culture without fail. Whether you worship Jesus or the Sun, the belief in an afterlife if you follow the rules the last generation handled to you is what leads to terrible deeds, because you can justify anything. > The story puts an effective limit on the level of worship No, it doesn't. Many innocent people are sacrificed or ordered to be killed throughout the verses. Jephthah sacrifices his daughter. Saul is asked to kill women and children. > Seeing as the Bible is a collection of stories that where told for thousands of years before being written down If by told for a thousand years before being written down, you mean edited, distorted, and mistranslated to the convenience of whoever was in power at the time, yes.