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Aptera's First Solar Road Trip. 300 Miles, One Charge
- dscottboggs 2y agoYeah, 545 watts on an Arizona afternoon in that ugly spaceship-ass lookin thing is exactly what I picture when someone says "solar car". It'll extend your range by a tiny bit and look like shit in the process. I bet 545W doesn't even sustain it at highway speeds, let alone acceleration and deceleration that would be needed on a busy road etc (gee I wonder why they took "the road not travelled"). It's just not a good idea. Sure, put a panel on the roof of a car to power the accessories system and get a little bit back in your range, but if you go into it thinking you can drive a *real* car on the solar power that strikes the surface of the vehicle you're just gonna make yourself look silly.
- zeroping 2y agoYou and I start from the same base information: the power from the solar in real-time isn't enough to drive a "real car", immediately. But we come to totally different conclusions. The solar hitting the roof of this thing over the course of a day is enough to make my average commute in that thing. That's what batteries are for. I'm not driving from sun-up to sun-down. (And you can plug it in anytime you want.) Yes there are some huge trade-offs to make it work: It's not a 3-row minivan, it's not a 4-door sedan, it's a bizzare-looking car-like thing that moves only two people, but does so in the comfort that I desire for my daily use. And the solar part is only going to work out in a sunny place, if you park it in the sun. That happens to be exactly what I'm looking for. Even if it didn't have solar, it's a ridiculously efficient EV, which I'd prefer over a ridiculously fast car or very large SUV. I would understand "That seems like a small market" or "that's too many trade-offs for me", but "It's just not a good idea" seems like harsh judgement for a vehicle because it doesn't appeal to your visual preferences or usage.
- travisporter 2y agoAgreed, I'd make the same argument as parent for a Harley. It's not my cup of tea, loud, impractical, and a gas guzzler, but it clearly appeals to a bunch of people. Give things a chance for goodness sake. Aptera never claimed you don't need to charge.
- audunw 2y agoI think the car looks excellent for what it is. It’s not like there’s a lot of choice in stunning micro EVs. My friend drove a Buddy for a few years. Really neat car, but that’s definitely one that nobody would call beautiful. I’ve seen many people who thinks the Aptera looks great. It has some very good design qualities (sleek and elegant IMO), even if I can see why others wouldn’t like it. Like others have said, you’re objectively wrong about the solar panels. If you live in a sunny area, if you don’t have off-street parking, and you just need something to commute to work and do errands, the Aptera is technically an excellent choice. You would rarely have to visit a charging station. There’s no denying that the Aptera js efficient enough that the roof solar actually has a meaningful impact for people with median daily use. The solar panels aren’t meant to make a huge impact on long road trips. So your criticism just doesn’t make any sense. I can kinda understand the confusion considering we’re commenting on this story in particular. But this test is more about demonstrating what the excellent aerodynamics brings to the table. So maybe read a bit more into the intention of the design choices before critiquing it?
- johnea 2y agoThese guys are based here in San Diego county. I've been watching them for years. It's good to see some new news, and I think the road trip and report are an interesting update. But I do think they could have avoided criticism like what we're replying to above, if they had stated clearly how much of the 300 mile day was powered by the photovoltaic, and how much relied on plug-in charging. I'm not critical at all, and I still want to know those details 8-/ Solar powered daily errands and even a modest commute are totally viable here in the southwest. I work from home, and plug my Nissan Leaf in about twice a week. So that's about 300 miles per week. I could almost certainly do my driving in the aptera without plugging in at all. The look is strictly "form follows function", it's not intended to be a fashion statement, it's intended to be maximally efficient. Clearly trying to attract Kunk Daddy and the thug crowd away from giant blacked-out escalades with gold wheels, isn't the demographic addressed by this vehicle.
- arrakark 2y agoI think Aptera's vision is fantastic. People are quick to judge the looks or three-wheelness of the car, but I think that's just a symptom of cars being marketed as status symbols nowadays. I am worried about production. With all of the years it's taking them to get there, they can run out of money at any time it seems. It's unknown if they can raise enough money on their terms to get this thing to production.
- russdill 2y agoIf you're traveling 300 miles, cargo capacity is pretty important. I feel like this is sacrificing a great deal of what people actually need for a "feature" that is a bit of a solution in search of a problem.
- skykooler 2y agoThe trunk in the Aptera is actually pretty huge, it's like six feet deep. What's mainly sacrificed is passenger capacity since it's only a 2-seater.
- ccnjfkggkkcj 2y agoIt isn't just the amount of space but the weight of what you plan on hauling that will impact your battery range as well.
- russdill 2y agoIt claims 25 cubit feet which is large but not certainly not huge. It's shaped in such a way that much of that isn't as useful as you'd hope. A fair amount of that area is at or below 12 inches in depth.
- tecleandor 2y agoWell, it's not "remodeling your house" big, but in 25 cubic feet you can fit 15-20 cabin size suitcases. That sounds like "family vacations" big.
- underseacables 2y agoI have always adored Aptera, but BYD and Tesla will always eat their lunch. I've been out to the factory in San Diego and driven Luna. It was awesome, but sadly I just don't think it will get funding. The government REALLY screwed them over, not once, but twice with the vehicle loan program. Really wonderful people and an amazing car.
- mlsu 2y agoI love these things. Sadly, it’s like an Elven artifact: a beautiful elegant thing, built for people who just aren’t quite like us. Us (the mass market, 99% of car buyers) are orcs. We look at a thing like this and can’t see the beauty or utility of being efficient and having a light footprint.
- ZeroGravitas 2y agoI don't really get what Aptera are aiming for, but solar panels on electric vehicles are a good call in niches already (refrigerated trucks being a low hanging fruit, golf carts) and only set to grow from there.
- pinkmuffinere 2y ago> Even on an overcast day, the team saw over 545 watts of solar input Let’s (generously) assume that was the minimum they saw, and let’s (generously) say they charged for 14 hours. That’s 7.63 kWh gained over the day, in almost ideal conditions. Flagstaff’s high altitude means stronger sunlight, and they can do regenerative braking as they come down the mountain. In my Nissan leaf, 6 kWh would get me about 20 miles. If they are much more efficient, they maybe got 50 miles from the charging on that day, and the other 250 from the charge they started with. I’d love to be wrong about any of the above! Solar panels on cars would be so cool! It just doesn’t seem useful. Please correct me if I’m mistaken.
- gpm 2y agoFor roadtrips, you're absolutely right. The average car travels less than 50 miles on the average day though (more like 30 I believe). This means you don't have to charge except on roadtrips (provided you can park outside in the sun, and don't drive more than average. The battery can provide some smoothing out of day-to-day variability though). Whether not having to plug in at home is particularly useful... hard to know if it's something consumers want.
- NewJazz 2y agoIf you are parked outside in the sun, you'll need to spend some amount of energy keeping the battery at a healthy operating temperature.
- LeoPanthera 2y ago50 miles of free driving a day sounds incredible, but you're implying that's a bad thing? I'm confused.
- nindalf 2y agoWith how cheap solar panels are getting, why not slap a few of them on the roof of every EV? Some days they get you 10 free miles, other days 20 or 30. If you’re a commuter, you’re basically driving for free at that point. Sure it’s not enough on road trips, but why is that a problem?
- trhway 2y ago300-545 watts. Aptera gets 8 miles/KWh (to compare - my Prius and other EV cars get about 3+ miles/KWh). So they get 2.5-4.5 miles from an hour under the Sun. So 20-40 miles during the time of commute and while parked at work. So, yes, that Trump's idea he expressed in the interview to Musk back then to plaster cars with solar panels isn't totally meaningless, at least in theory - you can have 2-3x solar panels on regular car compare to Aptera, so it would have made sense for daily commute if that plastering of the cars cost close to nothing, and unfortunately putting such thing in production would add thousands to the car cost, and given that even Musk/Tesla with their pile of cash available to dump into engineering of such a new feature haven't yet ventured into it it suggests that at least near future isn't bright for it.
- NewJazz 2y agoWhere does the 8mi/kWh number come from?
- nindalf 2y agoThe price of solar panels isn’t static though. It might not have made sense in 2015 or 2020 or even 2025. But solar panels continue to get cheaper, so it might eventually get to a point where it’s a serious idea. Even if it costs a couple thousand extra, the panels will pay for themselves by giving you basically free commutes forever.
- quailfarmer 2y agoWhat's new here? College kids have been doing this since the 90s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Solar_Challenge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Solar_Challenge
- trhway 2y agoSome look close to like a real car, that one EV + solar, 25miles/KWh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNSW_Sunswift#/media/File:Sunswift_7.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNSW_Sunswift#/media/File:Suns... I'd venture a guess - Aptera went for 3 wheeler because certification as a motorcycle is much easier than as a 4-wheel car. Unfortunately 3 wheels - 3 vertical columns resisting the upcoming air - may be less aerodynamic than 4 wheels which are only 2 vertical columns resisting the upcoming air. Add to that that for the same stability you generally need the paired wheels in a 3 wheeler wider than the paired wheels in a 4 wheeler - that again worsens the 3-wheeler aerodynamics.
- rcxdude 2y agoThere's two different classes in the WSC - one is basically 'make a race car' with very little view to practicality, most of the rules are about limiting the competitive speed to be below the speed limit and having some semblance of safety. Entries to this one are almost always 3 wheeled because it's optimal from an efficiency point of view (aerodynamics and rolling resistance). (Two-wheeled designs are not allowed). The other class (which the car you linked entered under) is meant to be a bit closer to a practical vehicle, and one of the rules is that it needs to have four wheels. It also is allowed a larger battery, which can be charged at certain points during the race (the other class starts with a fully charged battery but it's nowhere near enough for the race, and only solar power is allowed from that point on).
- tromp 2y agoOptimal aerodynamic efficiency on a 4 wheel car still requires a narrower rear, with a corresponding shorter rear axle to make the rear wheels roll in the slipstream of the front wheels. This can be seen on two of the most aerodynamic cars of all time, the GM EV1 and Mercedes EQXX.
- dontlaugh 2y agoFocusing on efficiency is a good idea, but why is it so big? It’s silly that it’s over 4m long.
- adrianN 2y agoMore room for panels.
- _ph_ 2y agoBecause it needs to be that long to have a low air resistance. There are two determining factors for air resistance. First, the cross section A, which determines the amount of air to be moved and second the drag coefficient c, which describes how well the air flows around an object. This gets lower the more "round" a shape is, but the sphere isn't actually the best one, you want the form of a falling raindrop. For that the shape needs to be quite a bit longer than it is wide. So if your car is e.g. 2m across, it needs to be something like 4m long to approach best efficiency. See also the empty "tails" attached to some racing cars for drag reduction.
- dontlaugh 2y agoThey could either make it narrower or slightly less efficient. That length makes it too big in many countries, especially for just two seats.
- _ph_ 2y agoI think it is already as narrow as you can put 2 seats side by side. But then indeed it becomes a tradeoff between size and efficiency. They went for maximum efficiency. And it is still 26cm shorter than a Model 3. So while not an compact car, not overly large either.
- dontlaugh 2y agoYou’re comparing against a car that is difficult to use on UK roads due to its length and (to a lesser extent) width. Perhaps in the US it’s not that big, but here it is.
- jore 2y agothere was a German startup (Sono Sion) some years ago that had a very similar idea and had even prototypes [0], but they filed for insolvency 2-3 years ago. Now I think they pivoted to something more boring and practical - putting solar panels on vehicles. I hope aptera gets to production though [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sono_Motors_Sion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sono_Motors_Sion
- masklinn 2y agoThere’s also Lightyear. But so far the Zero (formerly One) ran into the ground after a barely existent production run, and the Two I’m not sure exists in any way.
- xnx 2y agoA more effective design might be to tow a very thin and light 20 foot trailer of panels. That could work with any EV.
- torginus 2y agoHonestly, putting solar panels on EVs/plug-ins is one of those ideas that seems out there but is actually really practical even on production cars. You can fit a solar panels that can produce at least a couple hundred watts peak on most cars, to as much as 1kW on larger ones, and they are dirt cheap. Those produce enough energy to power your daily commute without ever having to plug them in (something most people either can't or won't bother doing).
- erelong 2y agoseems like an interesting and financially viable concept, just taking a while to get to market