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The C++ people were kind of ignoring the safety problems and Rust, but when Microsoft suddenly announced that all new code will try using Rust first, it's like

The C++ people were kind of ignoring the safety problems and Rust, but when Microsoft suddenly announced that all new code will try using Rust first, it's like suddenly they woke up and realized this is not a fad and that the gun is pointing at their heads.

like_any_other 2y ago
As amusing as it is to imagine language developers getting executed when their language falls out of favor, I think most C++ people are happy about Rust. The problem are large codebases already in C++ that won't get rewritten, so we have to do the best we can, within the constraints of C++.
- IshKebab 2y ago
  Depends what you mean by "C++ people". I think most of those C++ people who are happy about Rust would say they are now Rust people who may be forced to use C++ sometimes.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    No, I'm still a C++ person because while Rust is intriguing I have so much existing C++ it would be billions of dollars to rewrite to rust and it will take years to get more than a trivial amount of Rust. For the vast majority of new features the cost to implementing it in Rust is far higher than the cost of doing it in C++.
otabdeveloper4 2y ago
Pretty much everything Microsoft does is guaranteed to be a fad. They announce a new language paradigm shift every 10 years. (And then abandon it 10 years later.)
gpderetta 2y ago
MS is a large contributor to the C++ standardization effort.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  It is, while at the same time they have changed their point of view on allowing C++ for new projects at Microsoft. I also think Herb Sutter leaving his role at Microsoft might have been related with this. From "Microsoft Azure security evolution: Embrace secure multitenancy, Confidential Compute, and Rust" https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/microsoft-azure-security-evolution-embrace-secure-multitenancy-confidential-compute-and-rust https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/microsoft-azure-secur... "Decades of vulnerabilities have proven how difficult it is to prevent memory-corrupting bugs when using C/C++. While garbage-collected languages like C# or Java have proven more resilient to these issues, there are scenarios where they cannot be used. For such cases, we’re betting on Rust as the alternative to C/C++. Rust is a modern language designed to compete with the performance C/C++, but with memory safety and thread safety guarantees built into the language. While we are not able to rewrite everything in Rust overnight, we’ve already adopted Rust in some of the most critical components of Azure’s infrastructure. We expect our adoption of Rust to expand substantially over time." From "Windows security and resiliency: Protecting your business" https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2024/11/19/windows-security-and-resiliency-protecting-your-business/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2024/11/19/windo... "And, in alignment with the Secure Future Initiative, we are adopting safer programming languages, gradually moving functionality from C++ implementation to Rust." Finally, "Microsoft is Getting Rusty: A Review of Successes and Challenges - Mark Russinovich" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VgptLwP588 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VgptLwP588
  - ladyanita22 2y ago
    I was about to reply to you saying that it was just Azure moving to Rust, but I can see I was wrong. Good job MS! I hope Apple follows suit soon.

like_any_other 2y ago

As amusing as it is to imagine language developers getting executed when their language falls out of favor, I think most C++ people are happy about Rust. The problem are large codebases already in C++ that won't get rewritten, so we have to do the best we can, within the constraints of C++.

IshKebab 2y ago
Depends what you mean by "C++ people". I think most of those C++ people who are happy about Rust would say they are now Rust people who may be forced to use C++ sometimes.
- bluGill 2y ago
  No, I'm still a C++ person because while Rust is intriguing I have so much existing C++ it would be billions of dollars to rewrite to rust and it will take years to get more than a trivial amount of Rust. For the vast majority of new features the cost to implementing it in Rust is far higher than the cost of doing it in C++.

otabdeveloper4 2y ago

Pretty much everything Microsoft does is guaranteed to be a fad. They announce a new language paradigm shift every 10 years. (And then abandon it 10 years later.)

gpderetta 2y ago

MS is a large contributor to the C++ standardization effort.

pjmlp 2y ago
It is, while at the same time they have changed their point of view on allowing C++ for new projects at Microsoft. I also think Herb Sutter leaving his role at Microsoft might have been related with this. From "Microsoft Azure security evolution: Embrace secure multitenancy, Confidential Compute, and Rust" https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/microsoft-azure-security-evolution-embrace-secure-multitenancy-confidential-compute-and-rust https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/microsoft-azure-secur... "Decades of vulnerabilities have proven how difficult it is to prevent memory-corrupting bugs when using C/C++. While garbage-collected languages like C# or Java have proven more resilient to these issues, there are scenarios where they cannot be used. For such cases, we’re betting on Rust as the alternative to C/C++. Rust is a modern language designed to compete with the performance C/C++, but with memory safety and thread safety guarantees built into the language. While we are not able to rewrite everything in Rust overnight, we’ve already adopted Rust in some of the most critical components of Azure’s infrastructure. We expect our adoption of Rust to expand substantially over time." From "Windows security and resiliency: Protecting your business" https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2024/11/19/windows-security-and-resiliency-protecting-your-business/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2024/11/19/windo... "And, in alignment with the Secure Future Initiative, we are adopting safer programming languages, gradually moving functionality from C++ implementation to Rust." Finally, "Microsoft is Getting Rusty: A Review of Successes and Challenges - Mark Russinovich" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VgptLwP588 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VgptLwP588
- ladyanita22 2y ago
  I was about to reply to you saying that it was just Azure moving to Rust, but I can see I was wrong. Good job MS! I hope Apple follows suit soon.