3 ms·

If you're not prepared to listen to an expert, and that's what your dentist is on this topic, then nothing I, or anyone else can say, makes any difference to yo

If you're not prepared to listen to an expert, and that's what your dentist is on this topic, then nothing I, or anyone else can say, makes any difference to you. At some point, you have to accept that your random wikipedia page and 5 minutes on google is not a convincing argument. This is right up there in the conspiracy theory territory. Rational discussion means listening to experts and admitting that you are not an expert. What do you want me to say? You aren't a qualified expert on this topic. If you want an expert opinion, talk to an expert, not some dubious fucking provenance wikipedia page.

like_any_other 2y ago
> If you're not prepared to listen to an expert Who do you think conducted those peer-reviewed systematic reviews? I'm sorry if I don't take the word of some random guy's dentist over multiple meta analyses in major medical journals. And I don't need an expert to tell me people should have the right to make their own medical decisions. And finally, I live in a country where public health experts have decided against water fluoridation. This is represents the vast majority of countries. What now? Should I pick some other experts to listen to?
- wokwokwok 2y ago
  You are not an expert in this field, and cherry-picking random articles in random journals does not make you an expert. > Should I pick some other experts to listen to? I think it's reasonably clear that you haven't spoken to an expert in this field. > I'm sorry if I don't take the word of some random guy's dentist over multiple meta analyses in major medical journals. Are you certain you're competent to review and understand the literature on the topic? It takes a lot of time and effort; that's what dentists do as a job. That's why they have to go to school. That's why random people on the internet do not do dentistry. If you don't trust my dentist, then talk to your dentist. This is literally my point: I'm not telling you how it is; I'm telling you, talk to someone who knows what they're talking about; and, don't believe that you are an expert because you put some trivial amount of effort into investigating it yourself. You can't be an expert at everything. No one can. As some point, you have to trust other people.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    I'm also not convinced that a dentist is credibly an expert here. Sure, I would absolutely expect my dentist to understand what benefits fluoridated water might provide to my teeth. I would not, for example, expect my dentist to be an expert in whether or not fluoridated water could cause damage to other parts of my body. My previous dentist pushed these $80 (not covered by insurance) fluoride treatments on every cleaning visit. There's no research that shows much of anything about their effectiveness (good or bad). Yet they push them anyway, because it (their words) might help and probably won't harm. That doesn't give me a good feeling about their competence to have an expert opinion on this sort of thing. I would, however, trust the opinion of someone who is doing medical/dental research, and holds a doctorate in a relevant field.
- robbiep 2y ago
  Who do you think conducted those peer-reviewed systematic reviews? I'm sorry if I don't take the word of some random guy's dentist over multiple meta analyses in major medical journals. I don’t understand what you mean here. Are you just wholly rejecting the concept of expert knowledge, trials, meta analyses, basically the foundations of science, just because in order to participate in it you have to have tainted yourself by rigorously studying it?
  - like_any_other 2y ago
    > Are you just wholly rejecting the concept of expert knowledge I am embracing expert knowledge in trusting meta-analyses and the decisions of EU health experts.
nostrebored 2y ago
Your dentist is not an expert in this — that’s like saying the guy implementing your frontend is an expert in design. Yes, they’re working in the space, but their job isn’t understanding the whole system. If you’re this deep on the appeal to authority train, the NIH released a report in the last year linking fluoride exposure to moderate drops in IQ with moderate confidence. It’s probably not the worst thing in the world, but is definitely not inert.
- noodletheworld 2y ago
  Dentists have to spend 8 years at school right? …and do various annual training to stay licensed? I’d say that’s a reasonable sign of someone qualified to have an opinion. I think you’re getting confused with a dental technician.
  - petesergeant 2y ago
    You don’t seem to understand the difference between public and private health. Your dentist is well qualified to have an opinion on the effects of fluoride on your teeth. They are poorly qualified to have an opinion on whether it should be added to the water supply at source.
    - noodletheworld 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - petesergeant 2y ago
        Getting increasingly snarky when you're apparently unaware that Public Health is a thing is not a good look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_health https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_health Generally it's multi-discipline, but a good start here would be an epidemiologist with a focus on dental issues.
        noodletheworld 2y ago
Ajedi32 2y ago
Dentists are experts on neurology now? I don't think the debate here has anything to do with the effects of fluoride on teeth.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

like_any_other 2y ago

> If you're not prepared to listen to an expert Who do you think conducted those peer-reviewed systematic reviews? I'm sorry if I don't take the word of some random guy's dentist over multiple meta analyses in major medical journals. And I don't need an expert to tell me people should have the right to make their own medical decisions. And finally, I live in a country where public health experts have decided against water fluoridation. This is represents the vast majority of countries. What now? Should I pick some other experts to listen to?

wokwokwok 2y ago
You are not an expert in this field, and cherry-picking random articles in random journals does not make you an expert. > Should I pick some other experts to listen to? I think it's reasonably clear that you haven't spoken to an expert in this field. > I'm sorry if I don't take the word of some random guy's dentist over multiple meta analyses in major medical journals. Are you certain you're competent to review and understand the literature on the topic? It takes a lot of time and effort; that's what dentists do as a job. That's why they have to go to school. That's why random people on the internet do not do dentistry. If you don't trust my dentist, then talk to your dentist. This is literally my point: I'm not telling you how it is; I'm telling you, talk to someone who knows what they're talking about; and, don't believe that you are an expert because you put some trivial amount of effort into investigating it yourself. You can't be an expert at everything. No one can. As some point, you have to trust other people.
- kelnos 2y ago
  I'm also not convinced that a dentist is credibly an expert here. Sure, I would absolutely expect my dentist to understand what benefits fluoridated water might provide to my teeth. I would not, for example, expect my dentist to be an expert in whether or not fluoridated water could cause damage to other parts of my body. My previous dentist pushed these $80 (not covered by insurance) fluoride treatments on every cleaning visit. There's no research that shows much of anything about their effectiveness (good or bad). Yet they push them anyway, because it (their words) might help and probably won't harm. That doesn't give me a good feeling about their competence to have an expert opinion on this sort of thing. I would, however, trust the opinion of someone who is doing medical/dental research, and holds a doctorate in a relevant field.
robbiep 2y ago
Who do you think conducted those peer-reviewed systematic reviews? I'm sorry if I don't take the word of some random guy's dentist over multiple meta analyses in major medical journals. I don’t understand what you mean here. Are you just wholly rejecting the concept of expert knowledge, trials, meta analyses, basically the foundations of science, just because in order to participate in it you have to have tainted yourself by rigorously studying it?
- like_any_other 2y ago
  > Are you just wholly rejecting the concept of expert knowledge I am embracing expert knowledge in trusting meta-analyses and the decisions of EU health experts.

nostrebored 2y ago

Your dentist is not an expert in this — that’s like saying the guy implementing your frontend is an expert in design. Yes, they’re working in the space, but their job isn’t understanding the whole system. If you’re this deep on the appeal to authority train, the NIH released a report in the last year linking fluoride exposure to moderate drops in IQ with moderate confidence. It’s probably not the worst thing in the world, but is definitely not inert.

noodletheworld 2y ago
Dentists have to spend 8 years at school right? …and do various annual training to stay licensed? I’d say that’s a reasonable sign of someone qualified to have an opinion. I think you’re getting confused with a dental technician.
- petesergeant 2y ago
  You don’t seem to understand the difference between public and private health. Your dentist is well qualified to have an opinion on the effects of fluoride on your teeth. They are poorly qualified to have an opinion on whether it should be added to the water supply at source.
  - noodletheworld 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - petesergeant 2y ago
      Getting increasingly snarky when you're apparently unaware that Public Health is a thing is not a good look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_health https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_health Generally it's multi-discipline, but a good start here would be an epidemiologist with a focus on dental issues.
      - noodletheworld 2y ago

Ajedi32 2y ago

Dentists are experts on neurology now? I don't think the debate here has anything to do with the effects of fluoride on teeth.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]