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Hawaii does not add fluoride to their water. Utah may be the first to out-right ban it, but there are quite a few local communities and cities that opt-out of a

Hawaii does not add fluoride to their water. Utah may be the first to out-right ban it, but there are quite a few local communities and cities that opt-out of adding it to their drinking water. https://chatgpt.com/share/67e8572d-c5f4-8000-9393-c2e894c922a4 https://chatgpt.com/share/67e8572d-c5f4-8000-9393-c2e894c922...

TMWNN 2y ago
The US is, according to Wikipedia, among a small minority of countries in which a majority of people drink fluoridated water. Various European countries have discontinued doing so. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation>
- lolinder 2y ago
  Yeah, this is one of those places where because RFK Jr took the anti- stand there's an understandable assumption that it's more nutty anti-science stuff, but it's much less clear cut when it comes to fluoridation. Europe has much lower rates than the US, which is an outlier on these stats only approached by Australia, and before Utah the major high profile anti-fluoride stance was made by Portland: https://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-30229-portland-voters-soundly-reject-fluoride.html https://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-30229-portland-voters-so... To the extent this is a polarized left-right issue, it's only recently and only because everything is polarized right now.
  - ics 2y ago
    Using certain family members as a personal rubric, fluoridated water has been a right-left issue for at least 2.5 decades. I think it’s been pretty polarized for longer, though it may have taken a long time to gain steam in mainstream “discourse”.
    - lolinder 2y ago
      I'm not sure you can use personal anecdotes to come to any conclusions about broad trends. To look at some actual data, I took the 2008 and 2024 election results and compared them with fluoridation rates. The split is pretty even: The top 10 most fluoridated states went 5/5 Rep/Dem in 2008 and 6/4 Rep/Dem in 2024. These were Kentucky, Minnesota, Illinois, North Dakota, Virginia, Georgia, South Dakota, Maryland, Ohio, and South Carolina. Hardly a blue wall. The bottom 10 least fluoridated states with 6/4 Rep/Dem in 2008 and 6/4 Rep/Dem in 2024. These were Hawaii, New Jersey, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Louisiana, Alaska, Utah, New Hampshire, and Mississippi. Hardly a red wall. The bottom three least fluoridated states are all hardcore blue: Hawaii, New Jersey, and Oregon. I just don't see any evidence here that this has been a left-right polarized issue until this year. The distribution of fluoride by political leanings is just too random.
    - nerdponx 2y ago
      It's a great demonstration of the granola-to-libertarian pipeline. Jumping the gap in the horseshoe, so to speak.
  - Maken 2y ago
    Fluoridated water was already a plot point in Kubrick's Strangelove from 1964.
  - mjevans 2y ago
    I'd be happier if that broken-but-correct-2x-a-day guy banned HFCS (High Fructose Corn Syrup) instead. It is my personal hypothesis that it is the cause of 'sugar cancer' (general cases of bad sugars / imbalances of sugars in the body), including Diabetes.
    - hattar 2y ago
      Interesting hypothesis, is it based on anything specific? I think refined/added sugars in general are probably something best avoided, but admittedly still eat plenty. The idea that one sugar is materially worse than another feels off, but I can't quite put my finger on why.
      - EmuAGR 2y ago
        Some sugars ingress faster than others to the bloodstream, causing higher insulin spikes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index AFAIK, HFCS is one of the worst offenders.
        llm_nerd 2y ago
        The GI of sugar (sucrose) and HFCS is largely the same. Indeed, the HFCS-55 used in colas actually has less glucose and more fructose, and fructose actually doesn't lead to a blood sugar spike (or, more correctly, a much lower impact), leading to HFCS-55 having a lower glycemic index. HFCS and sugar are both just combinations of glucose and fructose molecules. HFCS is not worse than sugar unless you're consuming such an outrageous amount that the fructose leads to a fatty liver (which does happen). But if you're consuming that much HFCS, it's only a small amount more of sucrose to yield the same outcome, as of course both have loads of fructose. The one viable argument to vilify HFCS is simply that it's so convenient and inexpensive (courtesy of massively subsidized corn production) that it led to many more products having added sugars. But people who carefully pour over ingredients looking for HFCS, but treat sugar as wholesome, are usually operating on ignorance.
    - fashion-at-cost 2y ago
- jemmyw 2y ago
  I was surprised to learn this. "Worldwide, the Irish Republic, Singapore and New Zealand are the only countries which implement mandatory water fluoridation." I live in New Zealand and my town doesn't put fluoride in the water but it seems like they'll be made to do so fairly soon. I don't really care one way or the other from the point of view of ingesting the stuff, but I do consider it a bit of a waste of money. People who brush with toothpaste don't need this and people who don't are probably drinking too much soda. A more useful thing to do might be to subsidize toothpaste for people who can't / won't buy it for their kids.
  - fao_ 2y ago
    > People who brush with toothpaste don't need this and people who don't are probably drinking too much soda I think every person in my social circles with any kind of illness or disability would be incredibly grateful for fluoridation, and it's not because of drinking too much soda
    - jemmyw 2y ago
      Yeah fair call. There's always some edge cases which is why I'm not the one making public policy. Although I don't think they sell the policy very well. There would be other ways to spend money for better dental health, NZ really doesn't subsidize dental care much compared to European countries.
- elif 2y ago
  Fluoridation, imperial measurement, 20% tips, taxes added at the register, and circumcision are the weirdest things Americans think everyone does.
  - timeon 2y ago
    > 20% tips Is this real?
    - osigurdson 2y ago
      In Canada, these days, even Subway expects a tip. It is insane.
    - kevingadd 2y ago
      Yeah the lowest option on some point of sale systems now is 20.
    - NortySpock 2y ago
      Yes, for nearly any restaurant this is the unspoken recommendation, and sometimes enforced automatically if your group is larger than 6-8. Source: I am an American.
    - boringg 2y ago
      When i read it now it is ridiculous how high the tip rate is. Yes 18-25% a lot of them tip on the taxed total bill which is bananas
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - bruckie 2y ago
      Yes, it's pretty common. It's also common for businesses where customers tip to underpay their employees on the expectation that they'll make it up with tips. It's legal to do this in many jurisdictions. As an American, I wish we didn't do this, but it's a collective action problem that's very hard to solve.
- habosa 2y ago
  Many other places fluoridate salt. There’s many ways to get flourish (toothpaste being the best if you can get people to use it correctly) but the evidence that mass fluoridation of some kind is good for dental health is enormous.
EasyMark 2y ago
It seems like they could compare states/countries/cities while controlling for other factors (age, income level, etc) to see how well fluoridation works. I'm pretty sure you'll find that fluoridation helps lower the number of cavities, but it's not going to be a slam dunk.

TMWNN 2y ago

The US is, according to Wikipedia, among a small minority of countries in which a majority of people drink fluoridated water. Various European countries have discontinued doing so. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation>

lolinder 2y ago
Yeah, this is one of those places where because RFK Jr took the anti- stand there's an understandable assumption that it's more nutty anti-science stuff, but it's much less clear cut when it comes to fluoridation. Europe has much lower rates than the US, which is an outlier on these stats only approached by Australia, and before Utah the major high profile anti-fluoride stance was made by Portland: https://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-30229-portland-voters-soundly-reject-fluoride.html https://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-30229-portland-voters-so... To the extent this is a polarized left-right issue, it's only recently and only because everything is polarized right now.
- ics 2y ago
  Using certain family members as a personal rubric, fluoridated water has been a right-left issue for at least 2.5 decades. I think it’s been pretty polarized for longer, though it may have taken a long time to gain steam in mainstream “discourse”.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    I'm not sure you can use personal anecdotes to come to any conclusions about broad trends. To look at some actual data, I took the 2008 and 2024 election results and compared them with fluoridation rates. The split is pretty even: The top 10 most fluoridated states went 5/5 Rep/Dem in 2008 and 6/4 Rep/Dem in 2024. These were Kentucky, Minnesota, Illinois, North Dakota, Virginia, Georgia, South Dakota, Maryland, Ohio, and South Carolina. Hardly a blue wall. The bottom 10 least fluoridated states with 6/4 Rep/Dem in 2008 and 6/4 Rep/Dem in 2024. These were Hawaii, New Jersey, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Louisiana, Alaska, Utah, New Hampshire, and Mississippi. Hardly a red wall. The bottom three least fluoridated states are all hardcore blue: Hawaii, New Jersey, and Oregon. I just don't see any evidence here that this has been a left-right polarized issue until this year. The distribution of fluoride by political leanings is just too random.
  - nerdponx 2y ago
    It's a great demonstration of the granola-to-libertarian pipeline. Jumping the gap in the horseshoe, so to speak.
- Maken 2y ago
  Fluoridated water was already a plot point in Kubrick's Strangelove from 1964.
- mjevans 2y ago
  I'd be happier if that broken-but-correct-2x-a-day guy banned HFCS (High Fructose Corn Syrup) instead. It is my personal hypothesis that it is the cause of 'sugar cancer' (general cases of bad sugars / imbalances of sugars in the body), including Diabetes.
  - hattar 2y ago
    Interesting hypothesis, is it based on anything specific? I think refined/added sugars in general are probably something best avoided, but admittedly still eat plenty. The idea that one sugar is materially worse than another feels off, but I can't quite put my finger on why.
    - EmuAGR 2y ago
      Some sugars ingress faster than others to the bloodstream, causing higher insulin spikes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index AFAIK, HFCS is one of the worst offenders.
      - llm_nerd 2y ago
        The GI of sugar (sucrose) and HFCS is largely the same. Indeed, the HFCS-55 used in colas actually has less glucose and more fructose, and fructose actually doesn't lead to a blood sugar spike (or, more correctly, a much lower impact), leading to HFCS-55 having a lower glycemic index. HFCS and sugar are both just combinations of glucose and fructose molecules. HFCS is not worse than sugar unless you're consuming such an outrageous amount that the fructose leads to a fatty liver (which does happen). But if you're consuming that much HFCS, it's only a small amount more of sucrose to yield the same outcome, as of course both have loads of fructose. The one viable argument to vilify HFCS is simply that it's so convenient and inexpensive (courtesy of massively subsidized corn production) that it led to many more products having added sugars. But people who carefully pour over ingredients looking for HFCS, but treat sugar as wholesome, are usually operating on ignorance.
  - fashion-at-cost 2y ago
jemmyw 2y ago
I was surprised to learn this. "Worldwide, the Irish Republic, Singapore and New Zealand are the only countries which implement mandatory water fluoridation." I live in New Zealand and my town doesn't put fluoride in the water but it seems like they'll be made to do so fairly soon. I don't really care one way or the other from the point of view of ingesting the stuff, but I do consider it a bit of a waste of money. People who brush with toothpaste don't need this and people who don't are probably drinking too much soda. A more useful thing to do might be to subsidize toothpaste for people who can't / won't buy it for their kids.
- fao_ 2y ago
  > People who brush with toothpaste don't need this and people who don't are probably drinking too much soda I think every person in my social circles with any kind of illness or disability would be incredibly grateful for fluoridation, and it's not because of drinking too much soda
  - jemmyw 2y ago
    Yeah fair call. There's always some edge cases which is why I'm not the one making public policy. Although I don't think they sell the policy very well. There would be other ways to spend money for better dental health, NZ really doesn't subsidize dental care much compared to European countries.
elif 2y ago
Fluoridation, imperial measurement, 20% tips, taxes added at the register, and circumcision are the weirdest things Americans think everyone does.
- timeon 2y ago
  > 20% tips Is this real?
  - osigurdson 2y ago
    In Canada, these days, even Subway expects a tip. It is insane.
  - kevingadd 2y ago
    Yeah the lowest option on some point of sale systems now is 20.
  - NortySpock 2y ago
    Yes, for nearly any restaurant this is the unspoken recommendation, and sometimes enforced automatically if your group is larger than 6-8. Source: I am an American.
  - boringg 2y ago
    When i read it now it is ridiculous how high the tip rate is. Yes 18-25% a lot of them tip on the taxed total bill which is bananas
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - bruckie 2y ago
    Yes, it's pretty common. It's also common for businesses where customers tip to underpay their employees on the expectation that they'll make it up with tips. It's legal to do this in many jurisdictions. As an American, I wish we didn't do this, but it's a collective action problem that's very hard to solve.
habosa 2y ago
Many other places fluoridate salt. There’s many ways to get flourish (toothpaste being the best if you can get people to use it correctly) but the evidence that mass fluoridation of some kind is good for dental health is enormous.

EasyMark 2y ago

It seems like they could compare states/countries/cities while controlling for other factors (age, income level, etc) to see how well fluoridation works. I'm pretty sure you'll find that fluoridation helps lower the number of cavities, but it's not going to be a slam dunk.