3 ms·

> no way, test-only code paths should never reach prod, and code that ships should never even know that testing is a thing that happens. What's your reasoning

> no way, test-only code paths should never reach prod, and code that ships should never even know that testing is a thing that happens. What's your reasoning for this? As a counter-example, the hardware you are using right now almost certainly has test points throughout the circuitry. Beyond all the uses the test points get during development and manufacturing, they are essential for repair and re-calibration after being sold to the customer and put into production.

sitkack 2y ago
So much needless discussion because someone makes an ill thought out hot take. Most engineered objects of any substantial complexity include built in test systems. They would be impossible to build without them.
- bulatb 2y ago
  If civil engineers could launch their dams in debug mode instead of flying out and crawling through a tube, I think they would. They just can't. Though some would still prefer the tube. That's up to them. Service tubes and jack points and JTAG and whatever ship in physically assembled artifacts because they have to, not because they should.
  - sitkack 2y ago
    No, you are wrong. In-situ fault testing and isolation is an engineering principle that per pervasive across many domains. You want your auto manufacturer to rip anything related to tell you why it doesn't work? You are just trying to defend a previous opinion by throwing out some acronyms to dress up your argument. They should spin two boards, one with jtag and one without and then how would they debug the board they just removed the jtag on? All systems are dynamic, all reliable dynamic systems use feedback, but you are arguing that engineers would rather remove those feedback mechanisms? The fallacy meter just cracked.
    - bulatb 2y ago
      The answer to your needlessly aggressive questions is, no, of course not. None of that is anything I'm saying. I'm genuinely sorry if it's frustrating, hopefully not, but I'm exiting this conversation now.

sitkack 2y ago

So much needless discussion because someone makes an ill thought out hot take. Most engineered objects of any substantial complexity include built in test systems. They would be impossible to build without them.

bulatb 2y ago
If civil engineers could launch their dams in debug mode instead of flying out and crawling through a tube, I think they would. They just can't. Though some would still prefer the tube. That's up to them. Service tubes and jack points and JTAG and whatever ship in physically assembled artifacts because they have to, not because they should.
- sitkack 2y ago
  No, you are wrong. In-situ fault testing and isolation is an engineering principle that per pervasive across many domains. You want your auto manufacturer to rip anything related to tell you why it doesn't work? You are just trying to defend a previous opinion by throwing out some acronyms to dress up your argument. They should spin two boards, one with jtag and one without and then how would they debug the board they just removed the jtag on? All systems are dynamic, all reliable dynamic systems use feedback, but you are arguing that engineers would rather remove those feedback mechanisms? The fallacy meter just cracked.
  - bulatb 2y ago
    The answer to your needlessly aggressive questions is, no, of course not. None of that is anything I'm saying. I'm genuinely sorry if it's frustrating, hopefully not, but I'm exiting this conversation now.