9 ms·

Trump's attacks on universities get darker, with shadows reaching our shores

235 points by nickcotter 2y ago

oldpersonintx 2y ago
[dead]
labster 2y ago
Another related article, three Yale professors are leaving for Canada: https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/28/us/yale-university-scholars-toronto-trump/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/28/us/yale-university-scholars-t... Brain drain is happening in real time.
- dmazin 2y ago
  Related: "as part of the Brains for Brussels initiative, VUB aims to actively attract American professors looking to relocate" https://www.brusselstimes.com/1490737/brussels-university-vub-opens-doors-to-censored-american-researchers-tbtb https://www.brusselstimes.com/1490737/brussels-university-vu...
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  The three professors: https://history.yale.edu/people/timothy-snyder https://history.yale.edu/people/timothy-snyder https://history.yale.edu/people/marci-shore https://history.yale.edu/people/marci-shore https://philosophy.yale.edu/profile/jason-stanley https://philosophy.yale.edu/profile/jason-stanley
  - bigfudge 2y ago
    Surely a brain drain of liberal arts professors is part of the plan though? Will be interesting to see engineers/pharma/mathematicians also leave. US doesn’t look like a nice place to be in the next few years so perhaps they will.
    - 2muchcoffeeman 2y ago
      Those are history professors though. I don't want to disparage other lib arts, but the historians are at least looking at what has happened when countries become fascist states. Could they have recognised all the warning signs?
      - perihelions 2y ago
        Snyder was regularly posted on HN on his subject matter. HN used to consider him someone worth reading. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10210327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10210327 ("Understanding Hitler’s Anti-Semitism (theatlantic.com)" (2015), 59 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41583725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41583725 ("Timothy Snyder on How the Collapse of the Soviet Union Took America by Surprise (lithub.com)" (2024), 87 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33104723 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33104723 ("How does the Russo-Ukrainian War end? (snyder.substack.com)" (2022), 88 comments) https://hn.algolia.com/?q=timothy%20snyder https://hn.algolia.com/?q=timothy%20snyder And a few more here (Algolia search censors things that were flagged), https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=snyder.substack.com https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=snyder.substack.com
    - hjgjhyuhy 2y ago
      Yep, it’s an interesting social experiment. USA is becoming like Russia, with fake democracy and robber baron oligarchy that does whatever it wants. Many people are going to be OK with it, as long as they think it benefits them personally. But I’m not sure many in academia will be among those. I bet China, India and EU will soon overtake America in sciences. Made in America may yet become the new made in Bangladesh.
- bhouston 2y ago
  If Trump and his intellectual descendants stay in power, it is very likely they take Canada eventually, probably starting with Alberta. Fun fact, the leader of Alberta is hanging around Trump and others in his orbit a ton and having a generally great time. That isn't a coincidence: https://www.ctvnews.ca/edmonton/article/danielle-smith-has-great-time-with-ben-shapiro-at-controversial-far-right-fundraiser/ https://www.ctvnews.ca/edmonton/article/danielle-smith-has-g...
  - 2muchcoffeeman 2y ago
    Are you following events and making highly speculative judgements or can you see evidence this is the direction Trump is headed? Its just crazy. Are they seriously going to bully current allies and start wars with them?
    - bhouston 2y ago
      > Are you following events and making highly speculative judgements or can you see evidence this is the direction Trump is headed? Here is a recent New York Times major article titled: "How Trump’s ‘51st State’ Canada Talk Came to Be Seen as Deadly Serious" https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/07/world/canada/trump-trudeau-canada-51st-state.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/07/world/canada/trump-trudea... Here is NBC News headline: "Trump's quest to conquer Canada is confusing everyone: President Donald Trump increasingly links a trade war to his push to annex America's northern neighbor." https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-quest-conquer-canada-confusing-everyone-rcna195657 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-quest-co... The underlying issue is that it makes sense from a long-term economic standpoint if you ignore everything else. Canada has tons of resources and even more land which will get more valuable as the world warms. Argicultural regions may shift northward if there is significant warming and that could hurt the US and benefit Canada. So strategically there is logic. The main complicating factor is that Trump can be quite erratic in his views, so it may just shift off of his plate and he focuses on something else if we are lucky.
  - CalRobert 2y ago
    Come to Europe and join your local army reserve! Hard for non citizens though.
- pandemic_region 2y ago
  Next up: Trump signing an executive order forbidding top level academics to leave US soil ? Or maybe Russian style: we'll see an increase of mysterious accidents and suicides amongst high profile dissidents?
mesk 2y ago
USA, the land of unlimited possibilities...of how to get detained without a process...for expressing opinions...by the government repating that we have finally free speach and the dark ages are gone...while revisiting history to avoid dangerous words such as a 'women'... And I've thought our wana-be-authorian politicians are greates idiots of all, but there seems to be running some kind of global world competion to find them and let them ruin their countries.
- vkou 2y ago
  The politicians aren't idiots, they don't actually believe anything they say. The idiots are the people whose support they politicians are courting.
  - yapyap 2y ago
    whether you pretend to be an idiot and do idiotic things or are an idiot and do idiotic things doesn’t matter, the outcome is the same. Matter of fact pretending to be an idiot and doing idiotic things might be worse cause you know better, an idiot’s excuse would be that that’s all they know to do.
  - atoav 2y ago
    This was true 8 years ago. Now I wouldn't be so sure about it anymore. I wouldn't make a bet that there isn't a single Republican out there who truly believes in some of the crazy stuff they are saying. But of course the survival of crazy policies hinges on people willing to elect politicians who will implement them. And that in turn hinges on how well you disinform them.
  - hapticmonkey 2y ago
    The recent signal leak shows that they really do believe this stuff. insert american flag and prayer emojis
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      The vice president writing they were going to pray makes me think the editor of the Atlantic was intentionally added to the chat. I don’t see how it could be believable that Vance is actually religious and isn’t just using it as a way to get votes.
BigglesB 2y ago
Anyone who might dismiss this as being just a few isolated cases — or who think it is desirable to just remove political opponents from the equation — should think long and hard about what it will actually take to maintain this kind of “criminalisation of dissent” over the long term… escalation is inevitable. There is clearly an intentional narrative being pushed that defines anyone who disagrees with the current administration’s ideology as an enemy who should be punished. Even if the risk to any one person is currently relatively small, just the threat itself will have profound effects on individual’s decisions. A massive brain drain seems inevitable but such a war on free speech will also radicalise people, even if it starts only in whispers. That will likely necessitate further oppressive measures to “stamp it out” and so forth, creating a vicious cycle. With each iteration the stakes increase, justifying increasingly violent measures & countermeasures on both sides, further increasing the consequences of — and the need avoid — actually being held accountable for those actions…
- throwfree 2y ago
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- yyyk 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - freehorse 2y ago
    Whatever one may think about them, "protests, cancellation or boycotts" are not anywhere close to being governmental actions as those discussed here, so I would not call that "already happened" with "slightly different means".
  - davidgrenier 2y ago
    There's only one "other side" in this, it's the American people.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - bhouston 2y ago
ailong 2y ago
[flagged]
- cjk 2y ago
  Give me a break. Supporting a free Palestinean state is not the same thing as supporting Hamas. See all of the folks in Gaza protesting Hamas over the last few days, for example.
  - mdhb 2y ago
    [flagged]
- zawaideh 2y ago
  [flagged]
- cogman10 2y ago
  Let me grant you your premise. Let's say that these are all actually terrorists with imminent plans to commit terror attacks. This still is not how you do things. For starters, if they are terrorists, then they should be locked up in our jails, not deported where they can continue to plan attacks. But before we do that, shouldn't we have a trial? You know, the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing? How do we know, for example, that this isn't just a case of mistaken identity? Or a zealous ICE agent? Heck, how do we know that this isn't some agent getting back at his girlfriend? That's why we have courts and trials.
  - lucasRW 2y ago
    They are not terrorists. They are public supporters. When you are welcomed at someone's house, you don't start going around by lecturing them on how to run their house. They are free to support Hamas, just not in the US as students.
    - sorcerer-mar 2y ago
      > They are free to support Hamas, just not in the US as students. They absolutely are free to support Hamas (with words and assembly, not with financing). The 1st Amendment has no exemption for "except if it's pro-bad-guy" nor for "except if you're a student" nor for "except if you're not a US citizen." > When you are welcomed at someone's house, you don't start going around by lecturing them on how to run their house. We're not talking about a guest in a house. We're talking about a person in the US's jurisdiction. Our Constitution explicitly protects their right to do this. The 1st Amendment's Free Speech protection is not limited to citizens, nor is the 5th Amendment's Due Process protection. The 14th Amendment's Equal Protection Clause makes that totally unambiguous: if you are within US jurisdiction, you have Constitutional rights.
Havoc 2y ago
US in general seems to be getting real dark real fast. Definitely preferred the old somewhat comical "We're the only country with freedom" vibe they had going.
- khaledh 2y ago
  Right? What happened to "they hate us for our freedom"?
  - throw0101d 2y ago
    > What happened to "they hate us for our freedom"? The hate is still there, but the "they" is now Trump/GOP and friends. Lots of politically-right folks in the US have been a fan Hungary's Orban for a while now: * https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-donald-trump-dallas-marjorie-taylor-greene-3c5a43ea6cd3a3472a05f48d3b527a76 https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-donald-tru... * https://newrepublic.com/article/175368/why-republicans-love-hungary-orban https://newrepublic.com/article/175368/why-republicans-love-... * https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/10/hungary-viktor-orban-republicans-ukraine-aid https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/10/hungary-vikt... * https://time.com/6993483/budapest-playbook-orban-trump/ https://time.com/6993483/budapest-playbook-orban-trump/
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
bhouston 2y ago
I look at Trump's popularity and it is still quite high. So while it may seem dark to some, generally it isn't bothering most Americans that much. Thus it is likely to continue and progress. What is next? - Maybe punish citizens for their views that do not align with the state sanctioned perspective, rather than just Green Card and immigrants. In this case, I expect some type of black list that deals economic damage to those on it. I can imagine some type of wide ranging social media bans for those on the list. - Further erode the rule of law and empower the president as a unity power. Or alternatively marketed, deal with corrupt judges who want to upend the will of a democratically elected leader. This play book has happened so many times recently, Putin in Russia, Netanyahu is doing it in Israel right now, Erdoğan in Turkey. It seems this is where the US is headed and I do not see any off ramps in the need term.
- Loughla 2y ago
  > Thus it is likely to continue and progress. Legitimately people are asking for a King. Right wing, supposed to be ultra-Americans are asking for a king. As long as he promises to make their bank accounts grow, and make their perceived enemies suffer, they want a king. I am absolutely astounded by what's going on around me right now
  - brettermeier 2y ago
    Is there a chance of a civil war, or are the royalists in the majority and will win anyway, so no one will dare?
    - Loughla 2y ago
      There is zero chance of a civil war. That would require entire states, not just citizens. Republican state governors and legislators have drank the Trump Kool aid, Democrats need trump to run against to stay in office. The people are fat and lazy and either comfortable or uncomfortable enough not to have spare time. It's a fucking train wreck. Nothing means anything and everything is bullshit.
  - cogman10 2y ago
DeathArrow 2y ago
[flagged]
- SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
  Could you perhaps supply an example of this? It's hard to tell where you're coming from. Are you referring for instance to Claudine Gay? It seems to fit, IMHO.
- cogman10 2y ago
  Like who? Jordan Peterson? Here's an issue I have, it's that if you dig into the backstory of 90% of the people claiming this narrative, it's not what happened. They aren't "cancelled for their opinions" but instead they are making decisions that lead to their blackball. Consider the case of Judy Mikovits. She likes to claim that she was fired for her wild ideas. But that's not why. She was fired because she was stealing a colleagues mail, got put on probation, and then had her understudy steal her laptop (which she never returned). Her firing has nothing to do with bad thought. I encourage you to point out other examples because they all tend to end like this. It's compelling to have a "I was cancelled" story. But also, this just isn't the same. These "cancelled" people are pretty much all on the podcast/media train. Some of them making a decent chunk of change. That's completely different from having a van with masked strangers pull up, grab you off the street, and then ultimately imprison you who knows where with no access to a lawyer. Potentially ending with you being sent to an El Salvadoran death camp. These are not the same thing.
- Loughla 2y ago
  I need you to point out one person who was fired at a university with no reason. They simply don't exist. What does exist are people using their 15 minutes to play the victim and spin a new career in media.
kwar13 2y ago
And he was already president once. It's not like he was a champion of free speech the first time around...
- relistan 2y ago
  And he was convicted of 34 felonies...
  - whatthesmack 2y ago
    ... in a kangaroo court in New York that is under appeal where Trump is certain to win.
    - csa 2y ago
      > in a kangaroo court You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
- UncleMeat 2y ago
  The first time he was president his administration was staffed mostly with legacy GOP leadership. He also hadn't yet stuffed the federal courts with goons. This meant that he got pushback for some of his worst authoritarian impulses (certainly not all of them, but some). Now the administration is staffed entirely with maga loyalists and Trump has appointed a substantial portion of the entire federal judiciary, up to creating a supermajority in the supreme court. The barriers are gone. So now we get the white house deliberately messaging the suffering of others. Kristi Noem in front of prisoners in El Salvador. Tweets of people in shackles or AI images of people weeping while being arrested, presented to the glee of adoring fans. "We love hurting these people" is the message.
gizmo 2y ago
Meanwhile frauds like Trevor Milton get pardoned. Milton donated 1.5 million to the Trump campaign and his lawyer is the brother of the Attorney General, which I'm sure was not a coincidence. Milton was on Team Trump. I don't care that much about Milton -- he's just one of many fraudsters who got away with it -- but it's the contrast here that's so shocking: if you support Trump he will bail you out even if you're a criminal but if you're critical of Trump he will try to destroy you. In earlier biographies Trump bragged about his vengeful nature. How he would gladly bear a grudge for a decade if that would allow him to finally get even. To Trump winning is justice. He fantasizes about destroying any FBI agent that had the audacity to investigate him. And any judge that found him guilty. Or any politician that voted for his impeachment. Canada and Europe have mocked Trump for decades, but who's laughing now? Vengeance seem so old-fashioned. Most of us don't seek vengeance or bear grudges. But to Trump getting even -- winning -- is everything.
throw0101d 2y ago
And if you're on a foreign student on visa, you better not write anything critical of federal policy, as otherwise you might be arrested on the street; surveillance video: * https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/federal-immigration-authorities-detain-international-tufts-graduate-st-rcna198158 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/federal-immigration-aut...
- cheema33 2y ago
  We are in an extremely shameful state.
  - hypeatei 2y ago
    No, this is winning and completely fine if you go down a path of mental and legal gymnastics. The argument now is that non-citizens (even permanent residents) are a different class of people that the bill of rights doesn't apply to.
gherkinnn 2y ago
ACOUP was right it seems. Not only can Bret dissect siege warfare in popular culture, he was capable of seeing the obvious. https://acoup.blog/2024/10/25/new-acquisitions-1933-and-the-definition-of-fascism/ https://acoup.blog/2024/10/25/new-acquisitions-1933-and-the-...
throw0101d 2y ago
Three professors from Yale who study fascism are leaving to go to the University of Toronto (Canada): * https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2025/03/27/three-prominent-yale-professors-depart-for-canadian-university-citing-trump-fears/ https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2025/03/27/three-prominent-ya...
SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
> Even a 1% chance of being denied entry or shipped to a detention centre is too high. Yes. As someone else remarked online, there is a world of difference between an effectively zero chance of this terrible outcome, and a non-zero chance. It's a change in kind not in degree, and people will react to that.
crest 2y ago
[flagged]
jmyeet 2y ago
I say without any hyperbole that what we're witnessing is the end of American empire. So-called "accelerationists" are excited about this. But empires take a long time to die and go out with a bang rather than just fading peacefully into history. What we're witnessing with universities and the illegal black-bagging of legal visitors and permanent residents is an unprecedented assault on the First Amendment. Only the McCarthy era probably comes close. We are very much in the era of thoughtcrime [1]. Fascism flames out because when loyalty is the only thing that matters, the administration turns into sycophantic morons. The courts won't save us. They've long since been subverted, a key pillar of the 50+ year Republican Project. There is no serious opposition to any of this. There is no safe haven from this either. It's not Europe. Just look at the elections and political momentum in the UK, France, Germany and Hungary. What's sad is the number of people who champion this as if it's going to make their lives any better. But cruelty, revenge and repression is the point. There are an awful lot of people who have legitimate grievances about the destruction of their standard of living, their material conditions. Yet nobody has done anything to address those concerns. Things are going to get very, very bad. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtcrime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtcrime
- twixfel 2y ago
  The US is in a far worse state than those countries you listed sans Hungary. What doesn’t help of course is that the US seems determined to export American fascism back over the Atlantic.
RajT88 2y ago
If they are doing this to non-citizens, it is a matter of time until they start doing it to citizens as well. Soon it will be stripping naturalized citizenship (which they have floated already). After that, they will just lock up native born citizens for frivolous reasons.
- matwood 2y ago
  Exactly. Once due process is removed from non-citizens, they can arrest whoever they want, claim they are non-citizens, then prevent them the due process to prove otherwise.
  - RajT88 2y ago
    Or really, there is very little difference between trampling the constitutional rights of naturalized citizens vs. natural born citizens. If the judicial branch chooses not to check that power for partisan reasons, they will continue not to check that power as they exercise it more.
    - matwood 2y ago
      Sounds like they are testing an argument about jurisdiction now. US citizens are likely next. The Trump administration acknowledged in a court filing Monday that it had grabbed a Maryland father with protected legal status and mistakenly deported him to El Salvador, but said that U.S. courts lack jurisdiction to order his return from the megaprison where he’s now locked up. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/03/an-administrative-error-sends-a-man-to-a-salvadoran-prison/682254/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/03/an-admi...
- preommr 2y ago
  > which they have floated already I would say it's well past 'floating'. He's already signed the EO to end it, and now it's up to SCOTUS. This is like saying someone is floating the idea of getting a pizza, when they're in the store, pie in hand, waiting for the payment to clear.
lucasRW 2y ago
[flagged]
JojoFatsani 2y ago
The first amendment is worth fighting for.
- brandensilva 2y ago
  The constitution is worth fighting for. All of it. Protests need to be taking place. This isn't a bi partisan issue but a constitutional crisis that will destroy our country if we do not overturn these illegal EOs. April 5th come support the national protest.
danny_codes 2y ago
It’s a sad time to be American.
- RickJWagner 2y ago
  Not for everyone. Some were tired of the media ignoring stories like the Biden laptop story. Others wanted more details on Hunters $500k no show Ukrainian job. Or disliked that Trump was tried on novel charges. Personally, I think the way Hollywood has been weaponized is worth overthrowing. That’s a giant propaganda machine. Institutions like NPR, which had 87 directors that are Democrats and no Republicans. Doesn’t seem right, does it? So not everybody is alarmed. It’s only dark if you’re on one side of the political spectrum.
  - hypeatei 2y ago
    > Some were tired of the media ignoring stories like the Biden laptop story. The endless litigation in the laptop case against Hunter Biden wasn't enough? Every media company must also cover it if MAGA says so? > Others wanted more details on Hunters $500k no show Ukrainian job Hunter Biden does not and has not held any position in public office, but regardless a House Republican investigation into the Biden family found no wrongdoing[0]. I'm sorry that you feel persecuted when your side just got control of all three branches of government, had the richest man in the world buy Twitter to help you win, and also controls the largest cable news network in the country. [0]: https://archive.is/SAkcs https://archive.is/SAkcs
    - Izkata 2y ago
      > The endless litigation in the laptop case against Hunter Biden wasn't enough? Every media company must also cover it if MAGA says so? The story was suppressed at the FBI's insistence until after the election. They were spreading that it was Russian disinformation to ensure it wouldn't harm the Democrats, including getting social media sites to remove posts about it.
      - hypeatei 2y ago
nineplay 2y ago
flagged. hackernews continues to submit to censorship

235 points by nickcotter 2y ago

[dead]

Another related article, three Yale professors are leaving for Canada: https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/28/us/yale-university-scholars-toronto-trump/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/28/us/yale-university-scholars-t... Brain drain is happening in real time.

dmazin 2y ago
Related: "as part of the Brains for Brussels initiative, VUB aims to actively attract American professors looking to relocate" https://www.brusselstimes.com/1490737/brussels-university-vub-opens-doors-to-censored-american-researchers-tbtb https://www.brusselstimes.com/1490737/brussels-university-vu...
thaumasiotes 2y ago
The three professors: https://history.yale.edu/people/timothy-snyder https://history.yale.edu/people/timothy-snyder https://history.yale.edu/people/marci-shore https://history.yale.edu/people/marci-shore https://philosophy.yale.edu/profile/jason-stanley https://philosophy.yale.edu/profile/jason-stanley
- bigfudge 2y ago
  Surely a brain drain of liberal arts professors is part of the plan though? Will be interesting to see engineers/pharma/mathematicians also leave. US doesn’t look like a nice place to be in the next few years so perhaps they will.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 2y ago
    Those are history professors though. I don't want to disparage other lib arts, but the historians are at least looking at what has happened when countries become fascist states. Could they have recognised all the warning signs?
    - perihelions 2y ago
      Snyder was regularly posted on HN on his subject matter. HN used to consider him someone worth reading. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10210327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10210327 ("Understanding Hitler’s Anti-Semitism (theatlantic.com)" (2015), 59 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41583725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41583725 ("Timothy Snyder on How the Collapse of the Soviet Union Took America by Surprise (lithub.com)" (2024), 87 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33104723 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33104723 ("How does the Russo-Ukrainian War end? (snyder.substack.com)" (2022), 88 comments) https://hn.algolia.com/?q=timothy%20snyder https://hn.algolia.com/?q=timothy%20snyder And a few more here (Algolia search censors things that were flagged), https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=snyder.substack.com https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=snyder.substack.com
  - hjgjhyuhy 2y ago
    Yep, it’s an interesting social experiment. USA is becoming like Russia, with fake democracy and robber baron oligarchy that does whatever it wants. Many people are going to be OK with it, as long as they think it benefits them personally. But I’m not sure many in academia will be among those. I bet China, India and EU will soon overtake America in sciences. Made in America may yet become the new made in Bangladesh.
bhouston 2y ago
If Trump and his intellectual descendants stay in power, it is very likely they take Canada eventually, probably starting with Alberta. Fun fact, the leader of Alberta is hanging around Trump and others in his orbit a ton and having a generally great time. That isn't a coincidence: https://www.ctvnews.ca/edmonton/article/danielle-smith-has-great-time-with-ben-shapiro-at-controversial-far-right-fundraiser/ https://www.ctvnews.ca/edmonton/article/danielle-smith-has-g...
- 2muchcoffeeman 2y ago
  Are you following events and making highly speculative judgements or can you see evidence this is the direction Trump is headed? Its just crazy. Are they seriously going to bully current allies and start wars with them?
  - bhouston 2y ago
    > Are you following events and making highly speculative judgements or can you see evidence this is the direction Trump is headed? Here is a recent New York Times major article titled: "How Trump’s ‘51st State’ Canada Talk Came to Be Seen as Deadly Serious" https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/07/world/canada/trump-trudeau-canada-51st-state.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/07/world/canada/trump-trudea... Here is NBC News headline: "Trump's quest to conquer Canada is confusing everyone: President Donald Trump increasingly links a trade war to his push to annex America's northern neighbor." https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-quest-conquer-canada-confusing-everyone-rcna195657 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-quest-co... The underlying issue is that it makes sense from a long-term economic standpoint if you ignore everything else. Canada has tons of resources and even more land which will get more valuable as the world warms. Argicultural regions may shift northward if there is significant warming and that could hurt the US and benefit Canada. So strategically there is logic. The main complicating factor is that Trump can be quite erratic in his views, so it may just shift off of his plate and he focuses on something else if we are lucky.
- CalRobert 2y ago
  Come to Europe and join your local army reserve! Hard for non citizens though.
pandemic_region 2y ago
Next up: Trump signing an executive order forbidding top level academics to leave US soil ? Or maybe Russian style: we'll see an increase of mysterious accidents and suicides amongst high profile dissidents?

mesk 2y ago

USA, the land of unlimited possibilities...of how to get detained without a process...for expressing opinions...by the government repating that we have finally free speach and the dark ages are gone...while revisiting history to avoid dangerous words such as a 'women'... And I've thought our wana-be-authorian politicians are greates idiots of all, but there seems to be running some kind of global world competion to find them and let them ruin their countries.

vkou 2y ago
The politicians aren't idiots, they don't actually believe anything they say. The idiots are the people whose support they politicians are courting.
- yapyap 2y ago
  whether you pretend to be an idiot and do idiotic things or are an idiot and do idiotic things doesn’t matter, the outcome is the same. Matter of fact pretending to be an idiot and doing idiotic things might be worse cause you know better, an idiot’s excuse would be that that’s all they know to do.
- atoav 2y ago
  This was true 8 years ago. Now I wouldn't be so sure about it anymore. I wouldn't make a bet that there isn't a single Republican out there who truly believes in some of the crazy stuff they are saying. But of course the survival of crazy policies hinges on people willing to elect politicians who will implement them. And that in turn hinges on how well you disinform them.
- hapticmonkey 2y ago
  The recent signal leak shows that they really do believe this stuff. insert american flag and prayer emojis
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    The vice president writing they were going to pray makes me think the editor of the Atlantic was intentionally added to the chat. I don’t see how it could be believable that Vance is actually religious and isn’t just using it as a way to get votes.

BigglesB 2y ago

Anyone who might dismiss this as being just a few isolated cases — or who think it is desirable to just remove political opponents from the equation — should think long and hard about what it will actually take to maintain this kind of “criminalisation of dissent” over the long term… escalation is inevitable. There is clearly an intentional narrative being pushed that defines anyone who disagrees with the current administration’s ideology as an enemy who should be punished. Even if the risk to any one person is currently relatively small, just the threat itself will have profound effects on individual’s decisions. A massive brain drain seems inevitable but such a war on free speech will also radicalise people, even if it starts only in whispers. That will likely necessitate further oppressive measures to “stamp it out” and so forth, creating a vicious cycle. With each iteration the stakes increase, justifying increasingly violent measures & countermeasures on both sides, further increasing the consequences of — and the need avoid — actually being held accountable for those actions…

throwfree 2y ago
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yyyk 2y ago
[flagged]
- freehorse 2y ago
  Whatever one may think about them, "protests, cancellation or boycotts" are not anywhere close to being governmental actions as those discussed here, so I would not call that "already happened" with "slightly different means".
- davidgrenier 2y ago
  There's only one "other side" in this, it's the American people.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- bhouston 2y ago

ailong 2y ago

[flagged]

cjk 2y ago
Give me a break. Supporting a free Palestinean state is not the same thing as supporting Hamas. See all of the folks in Gaza protesting Hamas over the last few days, for example.
- mdhb 2y ago
  [flagged]
zawaideh 2y ago
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cogman10 2y ago
Let me grant you your premise. Let's say that these are all actually terrorists with imminent plans to commit terror attacks. This still is not how you do things. For starters, if they are terrorists, then they should be locked up in our jails, not deported where they can continue to plan attacks. But before we do that, shouldn't we have a trial? You know, the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing? How do we know, for example, that this isn't just a case of mistaken identity? Or a zealous ICE agent? Heck, how do we know that this isn't some agent getting back at his girlfriend? That's why we have courts and trials.
- lucasRW 2y ago
  They are not terrorists. They are public supporters. When you are welcomed at someone's house, you don't start going around by lecturing them on how to run their house. They are free to support Hamas, just not in the US as students.
  - sorcerer-mar 2y ago
    > They are free to support Hamas, just not in the US as students. They absolutely are free to support Hamas (with words and assembly, not with financing). The 1st Amendment has no exemption for "except if it's pro-bad-guy" nor for "except if you're a student" nor for "except if you're not a US citizen." > When you are welcomed at someone's house, you don't start going around by lecturing them on how to run their house. We're not talking about a guest in a house. We're talking about a person in the US's jurisdiction. Our Constitution explicitly protects their right to do this. The 1st Amendment's Free Speech protection is not limited to citizens, nor is the 5th Amendment's Due Process protection. The 14th Amendment's Equal Protection Clause makes that totally unambiguous: if you are within US jurisdiction, you have Constitutional rights.

Havoc 2y ago

US in general seems to be getting real dark real fast. Definitely preferred the old somewhat comical "We're the only country with freedom" vibe they had going.

khaledh 2y ago
Right? What happened to "they hate us for our freedom"?
- throw0101d 2y ago
  > What happened to "they hate us for our freedom"? The hate is still there, but the "they" is now Trump/GOP and friends. Lots of politically-right folks in the US have been a fan Hungary's Orban for a while now: * https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-donald-trump-dallas-marjorie-taylor-greene-3c5a43ea6cd3a3472a05f48d3b527a76 https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-donald-tru... * https://newrepublic.com/article/175368/why-republicans-love-hungary-orban https://newrepublic.com/article/175368/why-republicans-love-... * https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/10/hungary-viktor-orban-republicans-ukraine-aid https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/10/hungary-vikt... * https://time.com/6993483/budapest-playbook-orban-trump/ https://time.com/6993483/budapest-playbook-orban-trump/
deleted 2y ago
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bhouston 2y ago

I look at Trump's popularity and it is still quite high. So while it may seem dark to some, generally it isn't bothering most Americans that much. Thus it is likely to continue and progress. What is next? - Maybe punish citizens for their views that do not align with the state sanctioned perspective, rather than just Green Card and immigrants. In this case, I expect some type of black list that deals economic damage to those on it. I can imagine some type of wide ranging social media bans for those on the list. - Further erode the rule of law and empower the president as a unity power. Or alternatively marketed, deal with corrupt judges who want to upend the will of a democratically elected leader. This play book has happened so many times recently, Putin in Russia, Netanyahu is doing it in Israel right now, Erdoğan in Turkey. It seems this is where the US is headed and I do not see any off ramps in the need term.

Loughla 2y ago
> Thus it is likely to continue and progress. Legitimately people are asking for a King. Right wing, supposed to be ultra-Americans are asking for a king. As long as he promises to make their bank accounts grow, and make their perceived enemies suffer, they want a king. I am absolutely astounded by what's going on around me right now
- brettermeier 2y ago
  Is there a chance of a civil war, or are the royalists in the majority and will win anyway, so no one will dare?
  - Loughla 2y ago
    There is zero chance of a civil war. That would require entire states, not just citizens. Republican state governors and legislators have drank the Trump Kool aid, Democrats need trump to run against to stay in office. The people are fat and lazy and either comfortable or uncomfortable enough not to have spare time. It's a fucking train wreck. Nothing means anything and everything is bullshit.
- cogman10 2y ago

DeathArrow 2y ago

[flagged]

SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
Could you perhaps supply an example of this? It's hard to tell where you're coming from. Are you referring for instance to Claudine Gay? It seems to fit, IMHO.
cogman10 2y ago
Like who? Jordan Peterson? Here's an issue I have, it's that if you dig into the backstory of 90% of the people claiming this narrative, it's not what happened. They aren't "cancelled for their opinions" but instead they are making decisions that lead to their blackball. Consider the case of Judy Mikovits. She likes to claim that she was fired for her wild ideas. But that's not why. She was fired because she was stealing a colleagues mail, got put on probation, and then had her understudy steal her laptop (which she never returned). Her firing has nothing to do with bad thought. I encourage you to point out other examples because they all tend to end like this. It's compelling to have a "I was cancelled" story. But also, this just isn't the same. These "cancelled" people are pretty much all on the podcast/media train. Some of them making a decent chunk of change. That's completely different from having a van with masked strangers pull up, grab you off the street, and then ultimately imprison you who knows where with no access to a lawyer. Potentially ending with you being sent to an El Salvadoran death camp. These are not the same thing.
Loughla 2y ago
I need you to point out one person who was fired at a university with no reason. They simply don't exist. What does exist are people using their 15 minutes to play the victim and spin a new career in media.

kwar13 2y ago

And he was already president once. It's not like he was a champion of free speech the first time around...

relistan 2y ago
And he was convicted of 34 felonies...
- whatthesmack 2y ago
  ... in a kangaroo court in New York that is under appeal where Trump is certain to win.
  - csa 2y ago
    > in a kangaroo court You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
UncleMeat 2y ago
The first time he was president his administration was staffed mostly with legacy GOP leadership. He also hadn't yet stuffed the federal courts with goons. This meant that he got pushback for some of his worst authoritarian impulses (certainly not all of them, but some). Now the administration is staffed entirely with maga loyalists and Trump has appointed a substantial portion of the entire federal judiciary, up to creating a supermajority in the supreme court. The barriers are gone. So now we get the white house deliberately messaging the suffering of others. Kristi Noem in front of prisoners in El Salvador. Tweets of people in shackles or AI images of people weeping while being arrested, presented to the glee of adoring fans. "We love hurting these people" is the message.

gizmo 2y ago

Meanwhile frauds like Trevor Milton get pardoned. Milton donated 1.5 million to the Trump campaign and his lawyer is the brother of the Attorney General, which I'm sure was not a coincidence. Milton was on Team Trump. I don't care that much about Milton -- he's just one of many fraudsters who got away with it -- but it's the contrast here that's so shocking: if you support Trump he will bail you out even if you're a criminal but if you're critical of Trump he will try to destroy you. In earlier biographies Trump bragged about his vengeful nature. How he would gladly bear a grudge for a decade if that would allow him to finally get even. To Trump winning is justice. He fantasizes about destroying any FBI agent that had the audacity to investigate him. And any judge that found him guilty. Or any politician that voted for his impeachment. Canada and Europe have mocked Trump for decades, but who's laughing now? Vengeance seem so old-fashioned. Most of us don't seek vengeance or bear grudges. But to Trump getting even -- winning -- is everything.

throw0101d 2y ago

And if you're on a foreign student on visa, you better not write anything critical of federal policy, as otherwise you might be arrested on the street; surveillance video: * https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/federal-immigration-authorities-detain-international-tufts-graduate-st-rcna198158 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/federal-immigration-aut...

cheema33 2y ago
We are in an extremely shameful state.
- hypeatei 2y ago
  No, this is winning and completely fine if you go down a path of mental and legal gymnastics. The argument now is that non-citizens (even permanent residents) are a different class of people that the bill of rights doesn't apply to.

gherkinnn 2y ago

ACOUP was right it seems. Not only can Bret dissect siege warfare in popular culture, he was capable of seeing the obvious. https://acoup.blog/2024/10/25/new-acquisitions-1933-and-the-definition-of-fascism/ https://acoup.blog/2024/10/25/new-acquisitions-1933-and-the-...

throw0101d 2y ago

Three professors from Yale who study fascism are leaving to go to the University of Toronto (Canada): * https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2025/03/27/three-prominent-yale-professors-depart-for-canadian-university-citing-trump-fears/ https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2025/03/27/three-prominent-ya...

SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago

> Even a 1% chance of being denied entry or shipped to a detention centre is too high. Yes. As someone else remarked online, there is a world of difference between an effectively zero chance of this terrible outcome, and a non-zero chance. It's a change in kind not in degree, and people will react to that.

crest 2y ago

[flagged]

jmyeet 2y ago

I say without any hyperbole that what we're witnessing is the end of American empire. So-called "accelerationists" are excited about this. But empires take a long time to die and go out with a bang rather than just fading peacefully into history. What we're witnessing with universities and the illegal black-bagging of legal visitors and permanent residents is an unprecedented assault on the First Amendment. Only the McCarthy era probably comes close. We are very much in the era of thoughtcrime [1]. Fascism flames out because when loyalty is the only thing that matters, the administration turns into sycophantic morons. The courts won't save us. They've long since been subverted, a key pillar of the 50+ year Republican Project. There is no serious opposition to any of this. There is no safe haven from this either. It's not Europe. Just look at the elections and political momentum in the UK, France, Germany and Hungary. What's sad is the number of people who champion this as if it's going to make their lives any better. But cruelty, revenge and repression is the point. There are an awful lot of people who have legitimate grievances about the destruction of their standard of living, their material conditions. Yet nobody has done anything to address those concerns. Things are going to get very, very bad. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtcrime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtcrime

twixfel 2y ago
The US is in a far worse state than those countries you listed sans Hungary. What doesn’t help of course is that the US seems determined to export American fascism back over the Atlantic.

RajT88 2y ago

If they are doing this to non-citizens, it is a matter of time until they start doing it to citizens as well. Soon it will be stripping naturalized citizenship (which they have floated already). After that, they will just lock up native born citizens for frivolous reasons.

matwood 2y ago
Exactly. Once due process is removed from non-citizens, they can arrest whoever they want, claim they are non-citizens, then prevent them the due process to prove otherwise.
- RajT88 2y ago
  Or really, there is very little difference between trampling the constitutional rights of naturalized citizens vs. natural born citizens. If the judicial branch chooses not to check that power for partisan reasons, they will continue not to check that power as they exercise it more.
  - matwood 2y ago
    Sounds like they are testing an argument about jurisdiction now. US citizens are likely next. The Trump administration acknowledged in a court filing Monday that it had grabbed a Maryland father with protected legal status and mistakenly deported him to El Salvador, but said that U.S. courts lack jurisdiction to order his return from the megaprison where he’s now locked up. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/03/an-administrative-error-sends-a-man-to-a-salvadoran-prison/682254/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/03/an-admi...
preommr 2y ago
> which they have floated already I would say it's well past 'floating'. He's already signed the EO to end it, and now it's up to SCOTUS. This is like saying someone is floating the idea of getting a pizza, when they're in the store, pie in hand, waiting for the payment to clear.

lucasRW 2y ago

[flagged]

JojoFatsani 2y ago

The first amendment is worth fighting for.

brandensilva 2y ago
The constitution is worth fighting for. All of it. Protests need to be taking place. This isn't a bi partisan issue but a constitutional crisis that will destroy our country if we do not overturn these illegal EOs. April 5th come support the national protest.

danny_codes 2y ago

It’s a sad time to be American.

RickJWagner 2y ago
Not for everyone. Some were tired of the media ignoring stories like the Biden laptop story. Others wanted more details on Hunters $500k no show Ukrainian job. Or disliked that Trump was tried on novel charges. Personally, I think the way Hollywood has been weaponized is worth overthrowing. That’s a giant propaganda machine. Institutions like NPR, which had 87 directors that are Democrats and no Republicans. Doesn’t seem right, does it? So not everybody is alarmed. It’s only dark if you’re on one side of the political spectrum.
- hypeatei 2y ago
  > Some were tired of the media ignoring stories like the Biden laptop story. The endless litigation in the laptop case against Hunter Biden wasn't enough? Every media company must also cover it if MAGA says so? > Others wanted more details on Hunters $500k no show Ukrainian job Hunter Biden does not and has not held any position in public office, but regardless a House Republican investigation into the Biden family found no wrongdoing[0]. I'm sorry that you feel persecuted when your side just got control of all three branches of government, had the richest man in the world buy Twitter to help you win, and also controls the largest cable news network in the country. [0]: https://archive.is/SAkcs https://archive.is/SAkcs
  - Izkata 2y ago
    > The endless litigation in the laptop case against Hunter Biden wasn't enough? Every media company must also cover it if MAGA says so? The story was suppressed at the FBI's insistence until after the election. They were spreading that it was Russian disinformation to ensure it wouldn't harm the Democrats, including getting social media sites to remove posts about it.
    - hypeatei 2y ago

nineplay 2y ago

flagged. hackernews continues to submit to censorship