4 ms·

Seems to me he's just scammed xAI investors, who thought they were investing in an AI company, into bailing him out of his failed Twitter purchase - they are no

Seems to me he's just scammed xAI investors, who thought they were investing in an AI company, into bailing him out of his failed Twitter purchase - they are now the idiots who paid $44B for Twitter (recently valued by Fidelity at $10B), and Musk gets his money back.

TZubiri 2y ago
IANAL, but this might be brought to court, if the company mission (as defined in their operating agreement) is to invest in AI, then buying X is not in the best interest of the company and not what the investors signed up for. It could be fraud.
- pests 2y ago
  Every AI company is buying access to data sets or sources of data.
  - HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
    So your justification rests on the theories that a) Musk (Twitter) was denying Twitter data access to Musk (xAI), and b) Twitter data - a firehose of ill-informed flamewars and bot responses - would provide some incremental benefit to training a frontier model.
    - pests 2y ago
      A) considering the deals with Reddit and other content sources are paid it might not look wise to give it to a company you own for no consideration B) I never said it was a good idea or anything. Just proposing what thought process happened.
- pkilgore 2y ago
  Am a lawyer, this is an incredibly silly and unlikely thing to suggest for a for-profit company set up on behalf of an even mildly sophisticated party in the USA. Nearly ever such company is "limited" to engage "in any lawful activity" so as avoid exactly this issue.
- m3kw9 2y ago
  What is iAnal? Does it mean what I think it means?
  - naitgacem 2y ago
    IANAL stands for "I am not a lawyer" This reminded me of this one time my father used the term "annales" which in french apparently means "past exams" or something :P
  - ohmahjong 2y ago
    Sorry to disappoint you, but it means "I am not a lawyer"
    - m3kw9 2y ago
      Then there must be a UANAL
      - imtringued 2y ago
        Being actively not a lawyer.
electriclove 2y ago
These xAI investors are not regular paycheck people. If they aren’t happy, this deal would not have happened. If they lose money, who cares.
- n1b0m 2y ago
  “Musk did not ask investors for approval but told them that the two companies had been collaborating closely and the integration would drive deeper integration with Grok.” https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/mar/29/elon-musks-xai-firm-buys-social-media-platform-x-for-33bn https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/mar/29/elon-musk...
- itake 2y ago
  can you cite your source? What leverage did Elon give the investors when he sold them shares?
  - electriclove 2y ago
    No source, just speculation. I think my main point is that these aren’t regular people that we need to feel sorry for or rise up in arms to defend.
    - rideontime 2y ago
      You can be against fraud in general without feeling sympathy for the particular victims. I know I am.
      - electriclove 2y ago
        Why assume fraud?
        rideontime 2y ago
        Usually a safe assumption with Musk. I believe his kind call it "pattern recognition."
VirusNewbie 2y ago
Is there currently a better use of the money? They can’t just double their GPU count.
jjfoooo4 2y ago
I think xAI investors were enthusiastically buying a ticket on the Elon rollercoaster
0xy 2y ago
Fidelity valuing at $10B is ancient outdated news no longer reflective of reality, the value had skyrocketed in recent months, given the profits which now exceed profits as a public company. [1] [2] In fact, Twitter debt is selling at 97% of value, indicating high confidence in the company. [3] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/mar/19/value-elon-musk-x-rebounds-purchase-price https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/mar/19/value-elo... [2] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-paid-high-price-114537561.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-paid-high-price-114... [3] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/musks-value-on-wall-street-is-rising-as-banks-find-buyers-for-x-loans-193244984.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/musks-value-on-wall-street-is...
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Twitter debt is selling at 97% of value, indicating high confidence in the company I helped some friends buy this debt. It has nothing to do with Twitter’s strength as an enterprise, but Musk’s brand as a political one. There is a great book on 90s Russia before Putin took power—the pre-Berezovsky playbook looks like the way to go in America right now.
michaelwilson 2y ago
I thought I also heard that the people who agreed to buy Twitter's debt got the deal sweetened with some XAi stock. Sooo, did that debt get paid off, and they got XAi stock. If so, buying that Tesla debt might not have been the complete bloodbath it should have been.

TZubiri 2y ago

IANAL, but this might be brought to court, if the company mission (as defined in their operating agreement) is to invest in AI, then buying X is not in the best interest of the company and not what the investors signed up for. It could be fraud.

pests 2y ago
Every AI company is buying access to data sets or sources of data.
- HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
  So your justification rests on the theories that a) Musk (Twitter) was denying Twitter data access to Musk (xAI), and b) Twitter data - a firehose of ill-informed flamewars and bot responses - would provide some incremental benefit to training a frontier model.
  - pests 2y ago
    A) considering the deals with Reddit and other content sources are paid it might not look wise to give it to a company you own for no consideration B) I never said it was a good idea or anything. Just proposing what thought process happened.
pkilgore 2y ago
Am a lawyer, this is an incredibly silly and unlikely thing to suggest for a for-profit company set up on behalf of an even mildly sophisticated party in the USA. Nearly ever such company is "limited" to engage "in any lawful activity" so as avoid exactly this issue.
m3kw9 2y ago
What is iAnal? Does it mean what I think it means?
- naitgacem 2y ago
  IANAL stands for "I am not a lawyer" This reminded me of this one time my father used the term "annales" which in french apparently means "past exams" or something :P
- ohmahjong 2y ago
  Sorry to disappoint you, but it means "I am not a lawyer"
  - m3kw9 2y ago
    Then there must be a UANAL
    - imtringued 2y ago
      Being actively not a lawyer.

electriclove 2y ago

These xAI investors are not regular paycheck people. If they aren’t happy, this deal would not have happened. If they lose money, who cares.

n1b0m 2y ago
“Musk did not ask investors for approval but told them that the two companies had been collaborating closely and the integration would drive deeper integration with Grok.” https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/mar/29/elon-musks-xai-firm-buys-social-media-platform-x-for-33bn https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/mar/29/elon-musk...
itake 2y ago
can you cite your source? What leverage did Elon give the investors when he sold them shares?
- electriclove 2y ago
  No source, just speculation. I think my main point is that these aren’t regular people that we need to feel sorry for or rise up in arms to defend.
  - rideontime 2y ago
    You can be against fraud in general without feeling sympathy for the particular victims. I know I am.
    - electriclove 2y ago
      Why assume fraud?
      - rideontime 2y ago
        Usually a safe assumption with Musk. I believe his kind call it "pattern recognition."

VirusNewbie 2y ago

Is there currently a better use of the money? They can’t just double their GPU count.

jjfoooo4 2y ago

I think xAI investors were enthusiastically buying a ticket on the Elon rollercoaster

0xy 2y ago

Fidelity valuing at $10B is ancient outdated news no longer reflective of reality, the value had skyrocketed in recent months, given the profits which now exceed profits as a public company. [1] [2] In fact, Twitter debt is selling at 97% of value, indicating high confidence in the company. [3] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/mar/19/value-elon-musk-x-rebounds-purchase-price https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/mar/19/value-elo... [2] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-paid-high-price-114537561.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-paid-high-price-114... [3] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/musks-value-on-wall-street-is-rising-as-banks-find-buyers-for-x-loans-193244984.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/musks-value-on-wall-street-is...

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Twitter debt is selling at 97% of value, indicating high confidence in the company I helped some friends buy this debt. It has nothing to do with Twitter’s strength as an enterprise, but Musk’s brand as a political one. There is a great book on 90s Russia before Putin took power—the pre-Berezovsky playbook looks like the way to go in America right now.

michaelwilson 2y ago

I thought I also heard that the people who agreed to buy Twitter's debt got the deal sweetened with some XAi stock. Sooo, did that debt get paid off, and they got XAi stock. If so, buying that Tesla debt might not have been the complete bloodbath it should have been.