4 ms·

> They might also be able to rely on Canada Maybe a dumb question, but wouldn't that have to be transported by ships rather than pipeline in that case, if it's

by diggan 2y ago

> They might also be able to rely on Canada Maybe a dumb question, but wouldn't that have to be transported by ships rather than pipeline in that case, if it's supposed to go all the way to Europe? Sounds a lot more expensive if so.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
Not a dumb question. That is what the LNG export market is: cooling fossil gas down cryogenically to liquid natural gas at an export facility, loading onto ships, and unloading at an import terminal (which can float and be repositioned geographically as demand warrants). Is it expensive? The question is: compared to what? For Europe, is it cheaper to lob military hardware at Russia or to pay a premium for gas (vs buying from Gazprom), causing the Russian economy to head towards failure? You're spending the fiat either way. Price is what you pay, optionality is potentially what you get. > [Gazprom] Management misjudged how resolute European capitals would be, according to one of the executives, who said the thinking inside the company was that Europe would quickly be back "begging" for Russian gas supplies to resume. Despite the economic pain of higher energy costs, the EU has not rolled back sanctions. > "We proved to be wrong," the executive said. > U.S. gas exporters quickly moved to replace Russian gas in Europe. The U.S. has become the biggest exporter of LNG to the continent, with supplies tripling since 2021. Europe still buys Russia's sea-borne liquefied natural gas (LNG), but mainly from Gazprom's rivals, Novatek's Yamal LNG plant. > The European Union aims to end its use of Russian fossil fuels by 2027 and its overall gas consumption has decreased in part due to a shift to renewable energy sources. Russia's high-flying gas exporter [Gazprom] crippled as Europe stays away - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/gazproms-grandeur-fades-europe-abandons-russian-gas-2025-03-13/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/gazproms-grandeur-fa... | https://archive.today/3lHKy https://archive.today/3lHKy - March 13, 2025 LNG Market - Comprehensive Study Report & Recent Trends - https://introspectivemarketresearch.com/reports/lng-market/ https://introspectivemarketresearch.com/reports/lng-market/ - August 2024 Economics of Gas Transportation by Pipeline and LNG - https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-86884-0_2 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-86884-0_... | https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-030-86884-0_2 https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-030-86884-0_2 (commodities market participant, no current LNG exposure, think in systems)
- diggan 2y ago
  > Is it expensive? The question is: compared to what? I mean, compared to pipelines, as mentioned in my comment. AFAIK, we (Spain) get most of our gas from North Africa (Algeria I guess?), so there are more pipelines into Europe, not just from Russia. So I guess I more wanted to know how the costs compared between shipping this cryogenically frozen gas and importing natural gas from say Africa.
  - disgruntledphd2 2y ago
    I believe that there are difficulties between Spanish and other countries in terms of pipe sizes et al, which makes the African route harder.
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      I'd be curious what the time, effort, and cost would be to lay HVDC cable between Africa and Spain and burn the fossil gas in Africa (vs moving it to Europe over pipeline to burn). Over time, you could use storage and renewables on the Africa side to green the energy.

by diggan 2y ago

toomuchtodo 2y ago

Not a dumb question. That is what the LNG export market is: cooling fossil gas down cryogenically to liquid natural gas at an export facility, loading onto ships, and unloading at an import terminal (which can float and be repositioned geographically as demand warrants). Is it expensive? The question is: compared to what? For Europe, is it cheaper to lob military hardware at Russia or to pay a premium for gas (vs buying from Gazprom), causing the Russian economy to head towards failure? You're spending the fiat either way. Price is what you pay, optionality is potentially what you get. > [Gazprom] Management misjudged how resolute European capitals would be, according to one of the executives, who said the thinking inside the company was that Europe would quickly be back "begging" for Russian gas supplies to resume. Despite the economic pain of higher energy costs, the EU has not rolled back sanctions. > "We proved to be wrong," the executive said. > U.S. gas exporters quickly moved to replace Russian gas in Europe. The U.S. has become the biggest exporter of LNG to the continent, with supplies tripling since 2021. Europe still buys Russia's sea-borne liquefied natural gas (LNG), but mainly from Gazprom's rivals, Novatek's Yamal LNG plant. > The European Union aims to end its use of Russian fossil fuels by 2027 and its overall gas consumption has decreased in part due to a shift to renewable energy sources. Russia's high-flying gas exporter [Gazprom] crippled as Europe stays away - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/gazproms-grandeur-fades-europe-abandons-russian-gas-2025-03-13/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/gazproms-grandeur-fa... | https://archive.today/3lHKy https://archive.today/3lHKy - March 13, 2025 LNG Market - Comprehensive Study Report & Recent Trends - https://introspectivemarketresearch.com/reports/lng-market/ https://introspectivemarketresearch.com/reports/lng-market/ - August 2024 Economics of Gas Transportation by Pipeline and LNG - https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-86884-0_2 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-86884-0_... | https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-030-86884-0_2 https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-030-86884-0_2 (commodities market participant, no current LNG exposure, think in systems)

diggan 2y ago
> Is it expensive? The question is: compared to what? I mean, compared to pipelines, as mentioned in my comment. AFAIK, we (Spain) get most of our gas from North Africa (Algeria I guess?), so there are more pipelines into Europe, not just from Russia. So I guess I more wanted to know how the costs compared between shipping this cryogenically frozen gas and importing natural gas from say Africa.
- disgruntledphd2 2y ago
  I believe that there are difficulties between Spanish and other countries in terms of pipe sizes et al, which makes the African route harder.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    I'd be curious what the time, effort, and cost would be to lay HVDC cable between Africa and Spain and burn the fossil gas in Africa (vs moving it to Europe over pipeline to burn). Over time, you could use storage and renewables on the Africa side to green the energy.