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I think about this often and it bothers me a lot. I think the same can happen for knowledge work. Country A ends up turning into a bunch of managers outsourcin

I think about this often and it bothers me a lot. I think the same can happen for knowledge work. Country A ends up turning into a bunch of managers outsourcing to Country B, and then at some point Country B realizes they can manage themselves. Companies are quite literally training their future competition. Once it reaches a tipping point, I don’t think it’s easy to reverse.

pca006132 2y ago
I feel like top management and share holders don't really care about things that may happen ~30 years later. And even if they care, there are a lot more other issues that may ruin a company, e.g. the entire industry is replaced due to technological advancement.
- ferguess_k 2y ago
  They definitely not, and there is no safe valve for it. Can't blame them though, this is what Capitalism teaches all of us. I'm short sighted too, but the thing is I won't be able to go wherever I want when SHTF while fund managers can probably do so.
- al_borland 2y ago
  It's not necessarily the fault of the company. The government created the environment to make it the only way to stay competitive for a lot of companies. Some bucked the trend, and I respect them for it. There is a push to bring things back now, but it's going to be ugly. It's much better to avoid the issue in the first place like most countries, but it's too late for that.
cultofmetatron 2y ago
> Country A ends up turning into a bunch of managers outsourcing to Country B, why the need to be hypothetical? this is more or less how it played out between china and america. America outsourced all manufacturing to China while doing all the R&D and "innovation." one look at companies like DJI, BYD and Bambulab and its clear that china can innovate just fine on their own now. Their products are becoming objectively better than the US designed ones.
- raducu 2y ago
  > china can innovate just fine on their own now. If China could turn democratic and open, the World would have such a bright future. Alas, I think we're headed into some distopian future because China is not going that way but indeed, they're very likely to surpass the USA in every other way.
  - generic92034 2y ago
    First let's see if the USA even can keep a democratic system running.
  - Apes 2y ago
    It feels like "Democratic and open" in the US has become "shadowy oligarchy and kleptocracy run for the benefit of whoever can control the media propaganda machine controlling the masses"
    - ferguess_k 2y ago
      Reminds me of this one: https://americanliterature.com/author/mark-twain/short-story/running-for-governor/ https://americanliterature.com/author/mark-twain/short-story...
- losvedir 2y ago
  And Japan before that. My mom told me that many years ago "Made in Japan" had the stigma that "Made in China" has (or used to have). But growing up with Nintendo and Sega and with Hondas and Toyotas being the best, I always thought of Japan has a high tech manufacturing hub.
  - badc0ffee 2y ago
    This was a joke in Back to the Future - the people in 1955 associated Japan with junk, and 1985 Marty says all the best stuff comes from there.
  - thwarted 2y ago
treis 2y ago
I don't think that's ever really happened. If you look at GDP per worker the closest anyone has gotten to the West is Japan & South Korea at roughly 3/4 the production of France. They can take over existing industries like autos because they do it for cheaper. They can compete in niches for innovation. But they are all capped by structural issues that will prevent them from matching the economic innovation of the west.
- ferguess_k 2y ago
  I think GDP is a biased indicator when states are competing with each others. Industrial output makes more sense IMHO.
  - treis 2y ago
    Not really because actually making stuff isn't as valuable as engineering stuff (or other service-like activities).
raducu 2y ago
> Country B realizes they can manage themselves. That's a thing we were taught in "Civic Culture" in grade 5 -- that slaves can become masters through hard work and making the master dependent on them. But now I see it more in a figurative way, because it rarely happens with actual slaves, but in a more metaphorical way, it certainly can happen.
- sawaali 2y ago
  It did happen in the Muslim world. There are "slave" dynasties in many parts of that world (Egypt, India) which were robust dynasties borne out of freed slaves.
- auggierose 2y ago
  Denzel also delivers this lesson in Gladiator 2.

pca006132 2y ago

I feel like top management and share holders don't really care about things that may happen ~30 years later. And even if they care, there are a lot more other issues that may ruin a company, e.g. the entire industry is replaced due to technological advancement.

ferguess_k 2y ago
They definitely not, and there is no safe valve for it. Can't blame them though, this is what Capitalism teaches all of us. I'm short sighted too, but the thing is I won't be able to go wherever I want when SHTF while fund managers can probably do so.
al_borland 2y ago
It's not necessarily the fault of the company. The government created the environment to make it the only way to stay competitive for a lot of companies. Some bucked the trend, and I respect them for it. There is a push to bring things back now, but it's going to be ugly. It's much better to avoid the issue in the first place like most countries, but it's too late for that.

cultofmetatron 2y ago

> Country A ends up turning into a bunch of managers outsourcing to Country B, why the need to be hypothetical? this is more or less how it played out between china and america. America outsourced all manufacturing to China while doing all the R&D and "innovation." one look at companies like DJI, BYD and Bambulab and its clear that china can innovate just fine on their own now. Their products are becoming objectively better than the US designed ones.

raducu 2y ago
> china can innovate just fine on their own now. If China could turn democratic and open, the World would have such a bright future. Alas, I think we're headed into some distopian future because China is not going that way but indeed, they're very likely to surpass the USA in every other way.
- generic92034 2y ago
  First let's see if the USA even can keep a democratic system running.
- Apes 2y ago
  It feels like "Democratic and open" in the US has become "shadowy oligarchy and kleptocracy run for the benefit of whoever can control the media propaganda machine controlling the masses"
  - ferguess_k 2y ago
    Reminds me of this one: https://americanliterature.com/author/mark-twain/short-story/running-for-governor/ https://americanliterature.com/author/mark-twain/short-story...
losvedir 2y ago
And Japan before that. My mom told me that many years ago "Made in Japan" had the stigma that "Made in China" has (or used to have). But growing up with Nintendo and Sega and with Hondas and Toyotas being the best, I always thought of Japan has a high tech manufacturing hub.
- badc0ffee 2y ago
  This was a joke in Back to the Future - the people in 1955 associated Japan with junk, and 1985 Marty says all the best stuff comes from there.
- thwarted 2y ago

treis 2y ago

I don't think that's ever really happened. If you look at GDP per worker the closest anyone has gotten to the West is Japan & South Korea at roughly 3/4 the production of France. They can take over existing industries like autos because they do it for cheaper. They can compete in niches for innovation. But they are all capped by structural issues that will prevent them from matching the economic innovation of the west.

ferguess_k 2y ago
I think GDP is a biased indicator when states are competing with each others. Industrial output makes more sense IMHO.
- treis 2y ago
  Not really because actually making stuff isn't as valuable as engineering stuff (or other service-like activities).

raducu 2y ago

> Country B realizes they can manage themselves. That's a thing we were taught in "Civic Culture" in grade 5 -- that slaves can become masters through hard work and making the master dependent on them. But now I see it more in a figurative way, because it rarely happens with actual slaves, but in a more metaphorical way, it certainly can happen.

sawaali 2y ago
It did happen in the Muslim world. There are "slave" dynasties in many parts of that world (Egypt, India) which were robust dynasties borne out of freed slaves.
auggierose 2y ago
Denzel also delivers this lesson in Gladiator 2.