5 ms·

> I can't compare exactly but I feel like today the business pays more, the customer pays more, the drivers get paid less and it's all subsidized by investors t

> I can't compare exactly but I feel like today the business pays more, the customer pays more, the drivers get paid less and it's all subsidized by investors to boot. Am I totally wrong on this? It is exactly that! Food delivery is an excellent example of 'things just got worse'. In 2019, 'delivery' was a specialty a restaurant would have to focus on to offer. Pizza places (Papa Johns, Pizza Hut, etc) and other specific delivery-focused restaurants (such as Panera Bread, Jimmy Johns, or your local Chinese restaurant) would have actual W2 employees who did delivery driving, as part of their job. The restaurant would want deliveries to go well (for both the customer, as well as the driver), so would make sure their own staff had reasonable access to food, some light training, and would ensure they could deliver it somewhat well. (They would reject orders too far away, they wouldn't serve food that wouldn't survive a delivery trip well, etc) In post-COVID 2025, "every" restaurant offers delivery, but almost no restaurant still employs their own delivery drivers (locally, Jimmy Johns might be the only one left). Everyone else just outsourced to DoorDash. DoorDash drivers are employees who are 'legally-not-employees' (1099 employees), so they no longer have any direct access to the restaurants, and they can't train well for any specific service, because they might have to visit any-of-50 restaurants on any given day, all of which have entirely different procedures (even if they are the same brand or chain). Restaurants have zero incentive to ensure deliveries go well (the drivers aren't their employees, so they no longer care about turnover, and customers have to use DoorDash or Uber Eats or equivalent, because almost every restaurant uses it, so there's no downside to a DoorDash delivery going bad). Prices to consumers are double-to-higher than what they were in 2019, depending on the restaurant. Wages are down, employment security is entirely eliminated. Quality and service have tanked. Presumably, investors make slightly more money off of all of this?

jimnotgym 2y ago
Probably not the investors, but the Private Equity managers always win
- kccqzy 2y ago
  There are plenty of other businesses wrecked by Private Equity but DoorDash isn't one of them. It's publicly traded.
Cthulhu_ 2y ago
And on paper the idea for services like Doordash was good - 3rd party delivery company so the restaurant doesn't have that liability, staff, or investment, delivery people aren't working for just one store so they have more work if the one restaurant is quiet, etc. But since it's all investor and profit driven for the bigger company, costs get cut on every side.
- disgruntledphd2 2y ago
  > But since it's all investor and profit driven for the bigger company, costs get cut on every side. These services basically don't work with Western level wages. The economics are just not there.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    But it worked 20 years ago. That's the issue. We didn't get worse at driving and (apparently...) we didn't get poorer over the last few decades to pay for stuff. Cost of living from the fallout of '08 simply skyrocketed and most of the country didn't not increase compensation to make up for that. Despite that company simply charged more while cutting costs at the same time. So the driver and the customer lost out.
    - nbaugh1 2y ago
      I think by "these services" they mean apps like Doordash, not delivery as a concept
      - immibis 2y ago
        And they're saying: Why couldn't Doordash work when pizza delivery worked 20 years ago? Doordash is just pizza delivery scaled up, right? If pizza delivery had continued, it should work the same way as doordash for the same price as doordash but limited to pizza restaurants (by definition), right?
        2y ago
bluecheese452 2y ago
The obvious solution should be people stop using it and the system collapses. I haven’t had food delivered since 2020. Sadly it seems most people feel it is good enough.
msabalau 2y ago
Based on your description, consumers also get a wider range of delivery options. Also, it is a little odd that people are dining out more often if the experience is worse. But, yeah, wages and employment being down is the most relevant change.

jimnotgym 2y ago

Probably not the investors, but the Private Equity managers always win

kccqzy 2y ago
There are plenty of other businesses wrecked by Private Equity but DoorDash isn't one of them. It's publicly traded.

Cthulhu_ 2y ago

And on paper the idea for services like Doordash was good - 3rd party delivery company so the restaurant doesn't have that liability, staff, or investment, delivery people aren't working for just one store so they have more work if the one restaurant is quiet, etc. But since it's all investor and profit driven for the bigger company, costs get cut on every side.

disgruntledphd2 2y ago
> But since it's all investor and profit driven for the bigger company, costs get cut on every side. These services basically don't work with Western level wages. The economics are just not there.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  But it worked 20 years ago. That's the issue. We didn't get worse at driving and (apparently...) we didn't get poorer over the last few decades to pay for stuff. Cost of living from the fallout of '08 simply skyrocketed and most of the country didn't not increase compensation to make up for that. Despite that company simply charged more while cutting costs at the same time. So the driver and the customer lost out.
  - nbaugh1 2y ago
    I think by "these services" they mean apps like Doordash, not delivery as a concept
    - immibis 2y ago
      And they're saying: Why couldn't Doordash work when pizza delivery worked 20 years ago? Doordash is just pizza delivery scaled up, right? If pizza delivery had continued, it should work the same way as doordash for the same price as doordash but limited to pizza restaurants (by definition), right?
      - 2y ago

bluecheese452 2y ago

The obvious solution should be people stop using it and the system collapses. I haven’t had food delivered since 2020. Sadly it seems most people feel it is good enough.

msabalau 2y ago

Based on your description, consumers also get a wider range of delivery options. Also, it is a little odd that people are dining out more often if the experience is worse. But, yeah, wages and employment being down is the most relevant change.