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I saw a transit enthusiast YouTube video try out Waymo from the most distant part of the network to fisherman’s wharf in SF and it cost twice as much as an Uber

I saw a transit enthusiast YouTube video try out Waymo from the most distant part of the network to fisherman’s wharf in SF and it cost twice as much as an Uber, had a longer wait time for a car, and cost about double. That's literally an edge case. For shorter trips, I've found it to be slightly cheaper (especially factoring in the lack of tips) with maybe a slightly longer wait.

fallinghawks 2y ago
I've taken Waymo only twice (I try to avoid SF), from the ferry building to Chinatown, then back. Both times it was more expensive than Lyft with tip, but only by $2-3. It's good to know it can be cheaper.
- brokensegue 2y ago
  lyft charges more for nicer cars so a fair comparison might be to lyft's more premium service
  - dangus 2y ago
    This comparison doesn’t work. Not all Waymo riders actually want the premium cars and we can’t assume that’s why they are choosing Waymo. We have to assume that some and perhaps most riders would prefer to pay less to ride in a cheaper car but are mainly choosing Waymo because its autonomous (cool factor, the no-human factor). Also, California mandates autonomous vehicles be fully electric by 2030. So Waymo literally has to be driving some kind of EV to comply very soon. Jaguar’s I-pace was a poor-selling EV SUV from a struggling company with a lot of leftover inventory, so it’s almost a guarantee that Waymo got a great fleet deal on them.
    - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
      The cars are comfortable, even if they aren’t popular. If I had to choose between a beat up Prius uber-X or a Jaguar for a few dollars more, I’m definitely choosing the latter. I had a Mercedes (older cheaper model with mechanical issues) Uber-X fall apart on my ride in Orange County last month (my son and I were dumped near a nice mall at least), also I bet the Waymo doesn’t smell like cigarette smoke.
      - ajmurmann 2y ago
        To me the consistency in Waymos is so valuable. If I take a Waymo in SF or LA it's gonna be the same type of car, it's very well kept, the driver has the same driving style and the same conversation preferences.
        seanmcdirmid 2y ago
        Unfortunately I’ve only used it a few times in SF, but I would really love that. I don’t prefer human drivers much anymore (like I want to use self checkout at a grocery store). I’m going to Beijing in a couple of weeks and hope to try whatever they have going on there.
        Symbiote 2y ago
        From a quick search, you might need a local to book it, i.e. register the journey with the state apparatus. (This is a city where buying a simple 40¢ metro ticket requires showing identification.)
        seanmcdirmid 2y ago
        It’s really not that hard to buy a metro ticket. But we pay/alipay will make it easier, or I could just get a couple of IC cards that have been around since forever.
        dangus 2y ago
        This amuses me, because if you’re going to Beijing you can just use the way-better-than-America public transportation.
        seanmcdirmid 2y ago
        Not always and not everywhere. I lived in Beijing for 9 years on a subway line (well, after line 10 opened) that would have taken me almost straight to work, but it was so packed I still took a taxi. Maybe the extra lines/capacity makes it more comfortable now, but it wasn’t Tokyo when I was living there.
  - fallinghawks 2y ago
    I always pick the cheapest Lyft available; I'm not spending a whole lotta time in it so a luxury ride isn't a priority.
nemothekid 2y ago
I don't really find this to be the case at all. I've had Waymo for ~2 years now (since the private program), and I've never noticed it being quicker or cheaper than an Uber. I have several hundred rides; I prefer the service - but I've never once told people it's cheaper or faster. Currently, on Wednesday March 26th at 8:34 a ride from Bar Part Time in the Mission to Verjus in North Beach is $21.17 with a estimated 8 minute pickup time. The same ride on UberX has an estimated 2 minute pickup time at a cost of $15.34. I could see it being cheaper if you top 20% - but I don't tip nearly that high on Uber rides. I will admit that I could possibly be self-selecting to peak times as I own a car in the city, so I only use ride share in the evenings; so it may very well be the case that the price/wait is more competitive at off-peak hours. Furthermore, it's quite surprising to me that it seems that the human labor cost doesn't affect the price at all. The only price controls seems to be demand and the latent demand is enough to create a price floor where there is always a human that is willing to drive. It also seems like plain old logistics and traffic will prevent Waymo from providing enough supply to offer dirt cheap rides. The fact that a ride that would have cost me $5 in 2016 is almost 4x as much with "magic self driving technology" is not something I could have told my 2016 self.
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  You are also comparing Way-mo to UberX when it is more comparable to Uber comfort, but that’s often only a few dollars difference. Really, Waymo needs to come to Seattle, our uber costs are sky high and it would be easy to actually be cheaper than most uber rides here when it’s already $40 to go a short distance.
dangus 2y ago
Still, it kind of sounded like any trip involving the highway would be advantage Uber.
- krupan 2y ago
  Yes. For now

fallinghawks 2y ago

I've taken Waymo only twice (I try to avoid SF), from the ferry building to Chinatown, then back. Both times it was more expensive than Lyft with tip, but only by $2-3. It's good to know it can be cheaper.

brokensegue 2y ago
lyft charges more for nicer cars so a fair comparison might be to lyft's more premium service
- dangus 2y ago
  This comparison doesn’t work. Not all Waymo riders actually want the premium cars and we can’t assume that’s why they are choosing Waymo. We have to assume that some and perhaps most riders would prefer to pay less to ride in a cheaper car but are mainly choosing Waymo because its autonomous (cool factor, the no-human factor). Also, California mandates autonomous vehicles be fully electric by 2030. So Waymo literally has to be driving some kind of EV to comply very soon. Jaguar’s I-pace was a poor-selling EV SUV from a struggling company with a lot of leftover inventory, so it’s almost a guarantee that Waymo got a great fleet deal on them.
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    The cars are comfortable, even if they aren’t popular. If I had to choose between a beat up Prius uber-X or a Jaguar for a few dollars more, I’m definitely choosing the latter. I had a Mercedes (older cheaper model with mechanical issues) Uber-X fall apart on my ride in Orange County last month (my son and I were dumped near a nice mall at least), also I bet the Waymo doesn’t smell like cigarette smoke.
    - ajmurmann 2y ago
      To me the consistency in Waymos is so valuable. If I take a Waymo in SF or LA it's gonna be the same type of car, it's very well kept, the driver has the same driving style and the same conversation preferences.
      - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
        Unfortunately I’ve only used it a few times in SF, but I would really love that. I don’t prefer human drivers much anymore (like I want to use self checkout at a grocery store). I’m going to Beijing in a couple of weeks and hope to try whatever they have going on there.
        Symbiote 2y ago
        From a quick search, you might need a local to book it, i.e. register the journey with the state apparatus. (This is a city where buying a simple 40¢ metro ticket requires showing identification.)
        seanmcdirmid 2y ago
        It’s really not that hard to buy a metro ticket. But we pay/alipay will make it easier, or I could just get a couple of IC cards that have been around since forever.
        dangus 2y ago
        This amuses me, because if you’re going to Beijing you can just use the way-better-than-America public transportation.
        seanmcdirmid 2y ago
        Not always and not everywhere. I lived in Beijing for 9 years on a subway line (well, after line 10 opened) that would have taken me almost straight to work, but it was so packed I still took a taxi. Maybe the extra lines/capacity makes it more comfortable now, but it wasn’t Tokyo when I was living there.
- fallinghawks 2y ago
  I always pick the cheapest Lyft available; I'm not spending a whole lotta time in it so a luxury ride isn't a priority.

nemothekid 2y ago

I don't really find this to be the case at all. I've had Waymo for ~2 years now (since the private program), and I've never noticed it being quicker or cheaper than an Uber. I have several hundred rides; I prefer the service - but I've never once told people it's cheaper or faster. Currently, on Wednesday March 26th at 8:34 a ride from Bar Part Time in the Mission to Verjus in North Beach is $21.17 with a estimated 8 minute pickup time. The same ride on UberX has an estimated 2 minute pickup time at a cost of $15.34. I could see it being cheaper if you top 20% - but I don't tip nearly that high on Uber rides. I will admit that I could possibly be self-selecting to peak times as I own a car in the city, so I only use ride share in the evenings; so it may very well be the case that the price/wait is more competitive at off-peak hours. Furthermore, it's quite surprising to me that it seems that the human labor cost doesn't affect the price at all. The only price controls seems to be demand and the latent demand is enough to create a price floor where there is always a human that is willing to drive. It also seems like plain old logistics and traffic will prevent Waymo from providing enough supply to offer dirt cheap rides. The fact that a ride that would have cost me $5 in 2016 is almost 4x as much with "magic self driving technology" is not something I could have told my 2016 self.

seanmcdirmid 2y ago
You are also comparing Way-mo to UberX when it is more comparable to Uber comfort, but that’s often only a few dollars difference. Really, Waymo needs to come to Seattle, our uber costs are sky high and it would be easy to actually be cheaper than most uber rides here when it’s already $40 to go a short distance.

dangus 2y ago

Still, it kind of sounded like any trip involving the highway would be advantage Uber.

krupan 2y ago
Yes. For now