6 ms·

How to protect your phone and data privacy at the US border

94 points by beardyw 2y ago

beardyw 2y ago
> “The super-conservative perspective is to assume they are completely unhinged and that even the most benign reasons for travel are going to subject non-citizens to these device searches,” said Sophia Cope, a senior staff attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), a non-profit digital rights group.
timeon 2y ago
If you are non-citizen the safest option is to avoid traveling to particular country.
- Waterluvian 2y ago
  Yeah. Avoid travelling there if you can. Push back if work tries to send you there.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    Things can always happen at borders, some borders more than others but more than say traveling within a country in general. It's a risk equation but maybe not totally irrational to not travel internationally either personally or for work. It's not a risk equation I would solve that way in general but I could understand if people did, especially if they were of a nationality/ethnicity/profession/celebrity/etc. they felt put them at particular risk. I'm in the US and I'm not in a big hurry to get a new Chinese or Russian visa.
    - Waterluvian 2y ago
      Indeed, many Americans probably feel unsafe visiting Russia or China in the same way that a lot of citizens of the modern world are feeling increasingly unsafe visiting the U.S. The U.S. is quickly devolving into one of those Travel Advisory countries.
      - ghaff 2y ago
        I’m not sure with China it’s so much feeling unsafe for me as the visa is a headache, it’s an unpredictable geopolitical situation, and I’ve been there a few times though of course always more to do. Russia has always been a bit sketchy in various ways although I did take one trip there. Of course, I’ve known someone turned back from the UK too and I’m sure it’s happened in every country for various reasons.
        timeon 2y ago
        This seems like downplaying the situation. No-one is checking your phone on the way to Germany, France or even Slovakia.
postepowanieadm 2y ago
> Move things on to a cloud storage server Now they don't need a physical access to your device and may access your data at any time.
- imcritic 2y ago
  Who are "they"? The cloud could be hosted by you.
  - 1over137 2y ago
    The article suggests: "store it on your cloud storage like iCloud, Google Drive or Microsoft One Drive" She's specifically suggesting that instead of taking a small chance on having your phone searched, to upload it to 1 of 3 American companies, all revealed by Edward Snowdon to collaborate with American government snooping. Crazy.
    - pocketarc 2y ago
      There is a big difference between storing your data in the same cloud as millions of others, and having someone individually unlock and look at your phone. My phone has: * Photos going back 10+ years * Emails going back 10+ years * Messages going back 10+ years * All passwords (restricted, but if you're at the border and the person tells you to open it, you'll have to) * Access to all files on my home NAS If you got access to my phone and wanted to snoop around, you'd get... everything, all at once, all right there for you to see. There's SO much personal data. Even in airplane mode. It's all local. Some of it is stored in companies' clouds, but surely you see the difference between my having my emails with fastmail, files on iCloud Drive, passwords with 1Password, and... "you have direct physical access to a fully unlocked phone and can force me to unlock any part of it, and you have no restrictions, and you don't have to 'collaborate' with Apple or any other company to get that data part by part".
      - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
        My phone has nothing of these. However, there is a password in my head that would allow me to download 30+ years of photos etc from the cloud and another password in my head that would allow me to decrypt the downloaded data. In case my head fails, my children have the backup in their heads)
harvey9 2y ago
At least they link to the eff at the end of the article. I wouldn't take technical advice from a general audience newspaper.
mschuster91 2y ago
It's high time that the EU retaliates and institutes similar demands for US travellers. India and China could do the same. Causing inconvenience to ordinary Americans is the only way that will get through the thick brains of US Congress, I am afraid. And this should have been done in retaliation ever since these measures were introduced.
- mc32 2y ago
  They’re not going to. They like/depend on travel dollars too much. We do too but don’t care because it’ll only be few people we don’t care about who stay away. In any case tourism is bad for the environment. Stay local, vacation locally be socially responsible.
  - 1over137 2y ago
    >They’re not going to. They like/depend on travel dollars too much. Travel by Canadians (to USA) is down to covid-era lows.
  - jajko 2y ago
    You overestimate the importance of US travelers and their money, that's just 4% of world population. We get plenty of internal cross border tourism and Asia is ramping up every year. But it ain't the best idea anyway, those americans that do travel abroad are mostly the saner ones and not avid trump voters. No point trying to target some rednecks that are trivial to manipulate via emotions whose farthest life trip was maybe to Tijuana.
- gruez 2y ago
  Your proposed response to civil liberties violations by the US is for EU countries to do the same? What's next, arbitrarily arresting Salvadoran travelers to protest their government's arbitrary arrest of gang members?
  - exe34 2y ago
    it's almost as if American citizens were responsible for who they elected.
latexr 2y ago
While protecting your data privacy is important, I’d be more concerned about being detained without reason or recourse. https://apnews.com/article/border-tourists-german-canadian-detention-immigration-408cd27338e8065268fabc835f8b0c34 https://apnews.com/article/border-tourists-german-canadian-d... Here’s a better tip: Don’t travel to the US. They are making it very clear they don’t want anyone else there.
- unixhero 2y ago
  But I like to drink in Austin!
  - Gud 2y ago
    For beer, Antwerp. For cocktails, somewhere in the UK, probably?
- cudgy 2y ago
  Seems like it’s just as bad in Europe, even when not crossing borders https://www.politico.eu/article/police-can-access-mobile-phone-data-for-minor-crimes-eus-top-court-rules/ https://www.politico.eu/article/police-can-access-mobile-pho...
  - latexr 2y ago
    The US looks through your phone and locks you up for no reason (and I’m arguing the latter is worse than the former) and your response is the EU is “just as bad” because it does the former (which is the least bad of the two)?
    - cudgy 2y ago
      What’s bad is the lack of ability to look at one’s own area of the world and recognize the faults in your own backyard while wailing about equal faults in other areas of the world as if they are unique.
jamesgasek 2y ago
I just walked across the border though customs at Tijuana 2 days ago and didn’t see any of this. I’d be surprised if this is a common enough occurrence that the average person would have to worry about it.
- modmodmod 2y ago
  isn’t this basically survivorship bias?
  - bravura 2y ago
    People pay attention to canaries in coal mines for good reason
- molf 2y ago
  "It didn't happen to me, therefore it is not a problem."
- nickserv 2y ago
  Are you a US citizen?
Surac 2y ago
Intresting point is the recomendation to move my data from phone to cloud. Moving Data to cloud meens giving the US your data anyways
- 4ndrewl 2y ago
  It does, but as tfa suggests you have fewer rights at the border so perhaps it's more difficult to access if it's even on a US data centre?
- dist-epoch 2y ago
  Border police does not have authority to demand your data from the cloud providers, unlike the police or FBI. It's mentioned in the article: > At the border, however, there are currently policies in place that prohibit CBP from searching online cloud services.
  - btreecat 2y ago
    And everyone knows, policies being followed is the current administrations strong suit.
    - dist-epoch 2y ago
      it doesn't matter, the cloud companies will refuse those requests.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
pluc 2y ago
Why keep on submitting these links that you can't read?
- wuiheerfoj 2y ago
  ah, I assumed it was just me - I can’t scroll at all one the page on mobile
- latexr 2y ago
  Why can’t you read it? The Guardian is pretty open. Even if on this one I get a banner asking to register, I can just click “I’ll do it later” and read everything. They even clarify it’s not a paywall. But even if it were, those are still acceptable on HN, as per the FAQ¹: > Are paywalls ok? > It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds. > In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off topic². More here³. Usually you’ll have an alternative link on the comments. Here’s one for you: https://archive.ph/20250326114736/https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/mar/26/phone-search-privacy-us-border-immigration https://archive.ph/20250326114736/https://www.theguardian.co... ¹ https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html ² https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989 ³ https://hn.algolia.com/?query=paywalls%20by:dang&dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=paywalls%20by:dang&dateRange=a...
  - justinrubek 2y ago
    The user you are responding to is complaining that it is acceptable. Telling them that it is acceptable isn't contributing much to the conversation.
    - latexr 2y ago
      My post was, first and foremost, about resolving their issue. Not only have I pointed out how to read the article, I even provided an alternative method in case that didn’t work for some reason. I also asked for clarification on their problem, in case I could help further. Only secondarily was my post about how paywalled links (which again, this one isn’t) are explicitly on topic on HN with the reasoning why (since the OP was asking why they are permitted in the first place). Furthermore, the linked and quoted FAQ continues to explain that complaining about such links is explicitly off topic, with further links that I went through the trouble of including. I don’t understand how you find that to be “not contributing much”. I can hardly imagine a more comprehensive response to this particular query.
londons_explore 2y ago
mail your phone to the USA (powered off, encrypted). Then arrive without a phone (or with an empty burner just containing the map to your hotel).
- pajko 2y ago
  As the article says, having no phone at all or having a factory-reset burner phone might be worse.
  - subscribed 2y ago
    To be honest I'd just shrug, admit I didn't want to go through the hassle of wiping my normal phone, so decided to use a temporary one. Just flatly admit I intended to comply with the request, just didn't want to be afraid if I deleted all the saucy photos of myself with my wife. But in all seriousness I have a phone like this already and use it as a navigation device only: just gmaps, Waze, citymapper and separate Google account (in my name). Just devoid from anything personal while visibly being in use for a lot of time.
hoseja 2y ago
[flagged]
- emayljames 2y ago
  I don't see how it is, you wont have your phone searched if you come here.
  - hoseja 2y ago
    Except of course if you post something without a loicense.
  - postepowanieadm 2y ago
    Terrorism Act.
  - pjc50 2y ago
    Can't find out whether this is currently happening, the rules seem unclear. I can definitely find someone asking for the power in Hansard a couple of years ago: https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2023-12-05/debates/D4EA367E-312B-4FA4-A441-0C4E7967C5D6/DigitalDevicesSearchPowersAtTheUKBorder https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2023-12-05/debates/D4E...
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
Havoc 2y ago
Very simple - burner phone for sketchy countries. Then again with phones being basically mirrored to the cloud my working assumption is that US gov is helping itself to my data anyway
- btreecat 2y ago
  This was my plans a few years back, and again now. I'd rather bring a fresh wiped device through security. But US gov has access to any business records, including these conversations.
  - mnky9800n 2y ago
    these conversations are posted publicly on the internet. everyone has access to them.
btbuildem 2y ago
I've read reports of people getting detained or worse over how the authorities felt about their online activity (eg, social media posts etc). It's trivial to delete social apps off your phone, and claim you don't have accounts on (at least) the less common ones. My question is, do they have backdoors to the major ones? Say you go on a wild rant a few times, delete it afterwards -- can "they" root through the DBs and examine the deleted posts? Is that something meta/twitter/etc even keep long-term?
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
  Exactly, all my messengers, browsers, financial and security apps get a boot before crossing any border. It's easy to restore. Even easier if you use web sites instead of the apps where possible.
- officeplant 2y ago
  >It's trivial to delete social apps off your phone, and claim you don't have accounts on (at least) the less common ones. I have to wonder how long before we see someone get flack for not having social media presence at all. Maybe in 2030 I'll finally be forced to create a LinkedIn just as a safety measure for social media presence checks. >My question is, do they have backdoors to the major ones? Say you go on a wild rant a few times, delete it afterwards -- can "they" root through the DBs and examine the deleted posts? Is that something meta/twitter/etc even keep long-term? Given we had stories back in 2013 about how they tracked how often you typed and deleted without posting. (but not what was typed) It might be best to assume the worst as always. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2525227/Facebook-tracks-type-DONT-post-update-comment.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2525227/Face...
  - stonecharioteer 2y ago
    A girl I dated found it creepy I chose to not have any social media. Needless to say, I wasn't going to install them again just for her.
- raducu 2y ago
  If I were you, I'd read again what I just wrote and ask myself, why on God's green Earth would I want to travel to the USA at this point in time? It's obviously a bad idea at the moment.

94 points by beardyw 2y ago

> “The super-conservative perspective is to assume they are completely unhinged and that even the most benign reasons for travel are going to subject non-citizens to these device searches,” said Sophia Cope, a senior staff attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), a non-profit digital rights group.

timeon 2y ago

If you are non-citizen the safest option is to avoid traveling to particular country.

Waterluvian 2y ago
Yeah. Avoid travelling there if you can. Push back if work tries to send you there.
- ghaff 2y ago
  Things can always happen at borders, some borders more than others but more than say traveling within a country in general. It's a risk equation but maybe not totally irrational to not travel internationally either personally or for work. It's not a risk equation I would solve that way in general but I could understand if people did, especially if they were of a nationality/ethnicity/profession/celebrity/etc. they felt put them at particular risk. I'm in the US and I'm not in a big hurry to get a new Chinese or Russian visa.
  - Waterluvian 2y ago
    Indeed, many Americans probably feel unsafe visiting Russia or China in the same way that a lot of citizens of the modern world are feeling increasingly unsafe visiting the U.S. The U.S. is quickly devolving into one of those Travel Advisory countries.
    - ghaff 2y ago
      I’m not sure with China it’s so much feeling unsafe for me as the visa is a headache, it’s an unpredictable geopolitical situation, and I’ve been there a few times though of course always more to do. Russia has always been a bit sketchy in various ways although I did take one trip there. Of course, I’ve known someone turned back from the UK too and I’m sure it’s happened in every country for various reasons.
      - timeon 2y ago
        This seems like downplaying the situation. No-one is checking your phone on the way to Germany, France or even Slovakia.

postepowanieadm 2y ago

> Move things on to a cloud storage server Now they don't need a physical access to your device and may access your data at any time.

imcritic 2y ago
Who are "they"? The cloud could be hosted by you.
- 1over137 2y ago
  The article suggests: "store it on your cloud storage like iCloud, Google Drive or Microsoft One Drive" She's specifically suggesting that instead of taking a small chance on having your phone searched, to upload it to 1 of 3 American companies, all revealed by Edward Snowdon to collaborate with American government snooping. Crazy.
  - pocketarc 2y ago
    There is a big difference between storing your data in the same cloud as millions of others, and having someone individually unlock and look at your phone. My phone has: * Photos going back 10+ years * Emails going back 10+ years * Messages going back 10+ years * All passwords (restricted, but if you're at the border and the person tells you to open it, you'll have to) * Access to all files on my home NAS If you got access to my phone and wanted to snoop around, you'd get... everything, all at once, all right there for you to see. There's SO much personal data. Even in airplane mode. It's all local. Some of it is stored in companies' clouds, but surely you see the difference between my having my emails with fastmail, files on iCloud Drive, passwords with 1Password, and... "you have direct physical access to a fully unlocked phone and can force me to unlock any part of it, and you have no restrictions, and you don't have to 'collaborate' with Apple or any other company to get that data part by part".
    - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
      My phone has nothing of these. However, there is a password in my head that would allow me to download 30+ years of photos etc from the cloud and another password in my head that would allow me to decrypt the downloaded data. In case my head fails, my children have the backup in their heads)

harvey9 2y ago

At least they link to the eff at the end of the article. I wouldn't take technical advice from a general audience newspaper.

mschuster91 2y ago

It's high time that the EU retaliates and institutes similar demands for US travellers. India and China could do the same. Causing inconvenience to ordinary Americans is the only way that will get through the thick brains of US Congress, I am afraid. And this should have been done in retaliation ever since these measures were introduced.

mc32 2y ago
They’re not going to. They like/depend on travel dollars too much. We do too but don’t care because it’ll only be few people we don’t care about who stay away. In any case tourism is bad for the environment. Stay local, vacation locally be socially responsible.
- 1over137 2y ago
  >They’re not going to. They like/depend on travel dollars too much. Travel by Canadians (to USA) is down to covid-era lows.
- jajko 2y ago
  You overestimate the importance of US travelers and their money, that's just 4% of world population. We get plenty of internal cross border tourism and Asia is ramping up every year. But it ain't the best idea anyway, those americans that do travel abroad are mostly the saner ones and not avid trump voters. No point trying to target some rednecks that are trivial to manipulate via emotions whose farthest life trip was maybe to Tijuana.
gruez 2y ago
Your proposed response to civil liberties violations by the US is for EU countries to do the same? What's next, arbitrarily arresting Salvadoran travelers to protest their government's arbitrary arrest of gang members?
- exe34 2y ago
  it's almost as if American citizens were responsible for who they elected.

latexr 2y ago

While protecting your data privacy is important, I’d be more concerned about being detained without reason or recourse. https://apnews.com/article/border-tourists-german-canadian-detention-immigration-408cd27338e8065268fabc835f8b0c34 https://apnews.com/article/border-tourists-german-canadian-d... Here’s a better tip: Don’t travel to the US. They are making it very clear they don’t want anyone else there.

unixhero 2y ago
But I like to drink in Austin!
- Gud 2y ago
  For beer, Antwerp. For cocktails, somewhere in the UK, probably?
cudgy 2y ago
Seems like it’s just as bad in Europe, even when not crossing borders https://www.politico.eu/article/police-can-access-mobile-phone-data-for-minor-crimes-eus-top-court-rules/ https://www.politico.eu/article/police-can-access-mobile-pho...
- latexr 2y ago
  The US looks through your phone and locks you up for no reason (and I’m arguing the latter is worse than the former) and your response is the EU is “just as bad” because it does the former (which is the least bad of the two)?
  - cudgy 2y ago
    What’s bad is the lack of ability to look at one’s own area of the world and recognize the faults in your own backyard while wailing about equal faults in other areas of the world as if they are unique.

jamesgasek 2y ago

I just walked across the border though customs at Tijuana 2 days ago and didn’t see any of this. I’d be surprised if this is a common enough occurrence that the average person would have to worry about it.

modmodmod 2y ago
isn’t this basically survivorship bias?
- bravura 2y ago
  People pay attention to canaries in coal mines for good reason
molf 2y ago
"It didn't happen to me, therefore it is not a problem."
nickserv 2y ago
Are you a US citizen?

Surac 2y ago

Intresting point is the recomendation to move my data from phone to cloud. Moving Data to cloud meens giving the US your data anyways

4ndrewl 2y ago
It does, but as tfa suggests you have fewer rights at the border so perhaps it's more difficult to access if it's even on a US data centre?
dist-epoch 2y ago
Border police does not have authority to demand your data from the cloud providers, unlike the police or FBI. It's mentioned in the article: > At the border, however, there are currently policies in place that prohibit CBP from searching online cloud services.
- btreecat 2y ago
  And everyone knows, policies being followed is the current administrations strong suit.
  - dist-epoch 2y ago
    it doesn't matter, the cloud companies will refuse those requests.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]

pluc 2y ago

Why keep on submitting these links that you can't read?

wuiheerfoj 2y ago
ah, I assumed it was just me - I can’t scroll at all one the page on mobile
latexr 2y ago
Why can’t you read it? The Guardian is pretty open. Even if on this one I get a banner asking to register, I can just click “I’ll do it later” and read everything. They even clarify it’s not a paywall. But even if it were, those are still acceptable on HN, as per the FAQ¹: > Are paywalls ok? > It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds. > In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off topic². More here³. Usually you’ll have an alternative link on the comments. Here’s one for you: https://archive.ph/20250326114736/https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/mar/26/phone-search-privacy-us-border-immigration https://archive.ph/20250326114736/https://www.theguardian.co... ¹ https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html ² https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989 ³ https://hn.algolia.com/?query=paywalls%20by:dang&dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=paywalls%20by:dang&dateRange=a...
- justinrubek 2y ago
  The user you are responding to is complaining that it is acceptable. Telling them that it is acceptable isn't contributing much to the conversation.
  - latexr 2y ago
    My post was, first and foremost, about resolving their issue. Not only have I pointed out how to read the article, I even provided an alternative method in case that didn’t work for some reason. I also asked for clarification on their problem, in case I could help further. Only secondarily was my post about how paywalled links (which again, this one isn’t) are explicitly on topic on HN with the reasoning why (since the OP was asking why they are permitted in the first place). Furthermore, the linked and quoted FAQ continues to explain that complaining about such links is explicitly off topic, with further links that I went through the trouble of including. I don’t understand how you find that to be “not contributing much”. I can hardly imagine a more comprehensive response to this particular query.

londons_explore 2y ago

mail your phone to the USA (powered off, encrypted). Then arrive without a phone (or with an empty burner just containing the map to your hotel).

pajko 2y ago
As the article says, having no phone at all or having a factory-reset burner phone might be worse.
- subscribed 2y ago
  To be honest I'd just shrug, admit I didn't want to go through the hassle of wiping my normal phone, so decided to use a temporary one. Just flatly admit I intended to comply with the request, just didn't want to be afraid if I deleted all the saucy photos of myself with my wife. But in all seriousness I have a phone like this already and use it as a navigation device only: just gmaps, Waze, citymapper and separate Google account (in my name). Just devoid from anything personal while visibly being in use for a lot of time.

hoseja 2y ago

[flagged]

emayljames 2y ago
I don't see how it is, you wont have your phone searched if you come here.
- hoseja 2y ago
  Except of course if you post something without a loicense.
- postepowanieadm 2y ago
  Terrorism Act.
- pjc50 2y ago
  Can't find out whether this is currently happening, the rules seem unclear. I can definitely find someone asking for the power in Hansard a couple of years ago: https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2023-12-05/debates/D4EA367E-312B-4FA4-A441-0C4E7967C5D6/DigitalDevicesSearchPowersAtTheUKBorder https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2023-12-05/debates/D4E...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

Havoc 2y ago

Very simple - burner phone for sketchy countries. Then again with phones being basically mirrored to the cloud my working assumption is that US gov is helping itself to my data anyway

btreecat 2y ago
This was my plans a few years back, and again now. I'd rather bring a fresh wiped device through security. But US gov has access to any business records, including these conversations.
- mnky9800n 2y ago
  these conversations are posted publicly on the internet. everyone has access to them.

btbuildem 2y ago

I've read reports of people getting detained or worse over how the authorities felt about their online activity (eg, social media posts etc). It's trivial to delete social apps off your phone, and claim you don't have accounts on (at least) the less common ones. My question is, do they have backdoors to the major ones? Say you go on a wild rant a few times, delete it afterwards -- can "they" root through the DBs and examine the deleted posts? Is that something meta/twitter/etc even keep long-term?

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
Exactly, all my messengers, browsers, financial and security apps get a boot before crossing any border. It's easy to restore. Even easier if you use web sites instead of the apps where possible.
officeplant 2y ago
>It's trivial to delete social apps off your phone, and claim you don't have accounts on (at least) the less common ones. I have to wonder how long before we see someone get flack for not having social media presence at all. Maybe in 2030 I'll finally be forced to create a LinkedIn just as a safety measure for social media presence checks. >My question is, do they have backdoors to the major ones? Say you go on a wild rant a few times, delete it afterwards -- can "they" root through the DBs and examine the deleted posts? Is that something meta/twitter/etc even keep long-term? Given we had stories back in 2013 about how they tracked how often you typed and deleted without posting. (but not what was typed) It might be best to assume the worst as always. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2525227/Facebook-tracks-type-DONT-post-update-comment.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2525227/Face...
- stonecharioteer 2y ago
  A girl I dated found it creepy I chose to not have any social media. Needless to say, I wasn't going to install them again just for her.
raducu 2y ago
If I were you, I'd read again what I just wrote and ask myself, why on God's green Earth would I want to travel to the USA at this point in time? It's obviously a bad idea at the moment.