5 ms·

Europe's Largest Makerspace

129 points by doener 2y ago

jmkd 2y ago
For ref this is the UK's largest equivalent (focussed on physical making), is fully operational and highly recommended https://bloqslondon.com/ https://bloqslondon.com/
ongy 2y ago
> Europe’s largest makerspace for founders, startups, SMEs and many other creators This feels like it'll have none of the community character that makes maker's spaces what they are And more of a rental machines co-working space sort of character
- Lucasoato 2y ago
  If it’s almost free and access is guaranteed depending on merit it’s a good thing. If it’s super expensive and for few people… early stage startups shouldn’t waste too much money on offices anyway…
  - grumpy-de-sre 2y ago
    It's private/public partnership with an established "makerspace" called Motion.Lab. Historically their cheapest memberships have been 250 EUR per month. Unless something changes this initiative is an incubator/business park. It's interesting that the state is contributing, but it looks like the intention there is to encourage industrial startups to the city. That's probably a great thing to do but I think calling it a makerspace is stretching the definition a bit.
- ValentineC 2y ago
  +1 to this. That said, it'll probably allow people to get more things done than at a community space, especially with professional operators making sure things are maintained properly. Since it seems to be initiated and funded by the state, I give it between 2 to 4 years before funding runs out, politics change at the top, and the space shutters to make way for newer, more exciting ideas though.
- arlcode 2y ago
  Indeed. I believe it is a different category altogether and probably good that they are kept separate. Just as cheap office spaces for fledgling machine sharing opportunities may give founders the help they need in the very first stages of a company. Community spaces on the other hand move at a slower pace and are driven by the enthusiasm and volunteer time of their members. Both of which are hard to maintain if the effort ultimately benefits a commercial venture. These kind of "shared hobby cellars" are still very viable and can collect and impressive inventory of tooling. Sometimes people move from one to the other. Different use cases different approaches. It's unfortunate that the same name is applied to both.
- joshvm 2y ago
  Liverpool had one of these. The universities bought in and in principle academics had access to use the space and materials costed to the institution. So yes, a co-working space with access to fabrication equipment and a few small companies in residence. Very expensive for private consumers and we were never sure who'd get the bill if we used the fancier machines, so it was underutilised. Eg some high end LPKF PCB equipment that could do printed antennas and all sorts of interesting stuff, but the rental cost was rarely worth it over rush ordering from places like oshpark. Kind of an odd setup because any company that actually needed the kit (eg a darkroom for optical prep) would be better off renting a tiny industrial space and building out their own labs, and contracting out the rest. And since the universities paid into it they could have pushed for ownership and made it a proper facility for students and researchers. https://lbndaily.co.uk/sensor-city-in-liverpool-could-reopen-in-months https://lbndaily.co.uk/sensor-city-in-liverpool-could-reopen...
  - dagw 2y ago
    That matches my experience with this sort of makerspace. It launched with much fanfare and I was really excited. However it was far too expensive for me to use as a private individual, and didn't have enough high end or specialised equipment to make it worthwhile for most companies in the area. It was very disappointing all around. I walked past it on my way to and from work and never saw anybody there. A couple of years later it closed down.
- esafak 2y ago
  I balked when I saw it refer to the makers as "stakeholders". It sounds like something a "policymaker" who's never set foot in a makerspace would say. Good luck, I suppose.
bradhe 2y ago
As a founder in Berlin, I get excited when my city does stuff like this and is well represented in the maker community. Germany has a long way to go to really create a culture that fosters innovation, but these are the right first steps. I think this is something Americans (I'm American, born and raised on the west coast) don't understand: They talk shit about EU innovation and talk up their own dominance, but the tides are turning and the EU is motivated. The landscape will look very, very different in a few years.
- lippihom 2y ago
  Also a founder in Berlin from the west coast. Agree with everything you wrote. Tower.dev looks cool btw.
- trueismywork 2y ago
  We will see. To say that EU doesn't have systemically huge problems to innovation is delusional though. And I'm pretty sure those problems cannot be fixed by just announcing new things. The announcement looks like a. Lot of fluff and pomp
  - simianparrot 2y ago
    Which is exactly the problem with most of Europe -- a lot of talk, but little action, not out of a lack of motivation but because of the amount of heavy-handed bureaucracy, taxation, and anti-startup culture. That last one might sound odd when many countries, including mine, has a lot of startup schemes -- from tax cuts to innovation funding etc. But all of that is so bureaucratic and slow and complicated that it's only by accident that it helps anyone. "I'll believe it when I see it happen" is my approach to anything Europe, because I've lived within it for nearly forty years now. And I'm wise from experience. I've seen this before. Same song, worse bureaucracy, different faces (politicians).
- roenxi 2y ago
  > They talk shit about EU innovation and talk up their own dominance, but the tides are turning and the EU is motivated. I'm waiting for the day when a country stands up and says their strategy is to be unmotivated and commit to outdated approaches. Most of them seem to have huge crowds of motivated and capable people who are then swatted down by the local court system because success makes the powers that be uncomfortable. I'd feel more optimistic if you had a specific mistake that Europe was going to stop making. Maybe adjustments to tax laws. Motivation doesn't cut it against people like the Americans or the Chinese, there needs to be actual actions taken beyond makerspaces. Germany seems to have purposefully triggered a domestic energy crisis, that balances out a lot of makerspaces.
mg 2y ago
The site should have an RSS feed. I sometimes visit Berlin and if I could add their news and events to my Berlin feed, that would be nice.
- mtmail 2y ago
  https://www.berlin-partner.de/en/contact https://www.berlin-partner.de/en/contact
CalRobert 2y ago
Any recommendations for an equivalent in the Randstad?
- arjonagelhout 2y ago
  I'm interested in this too. I just moved to Utrecht and WFH / sitting in cafés isn't the most inspiring environment.
  - CalRobert 2y ago
    Hi! I’m moving to Houten in a few weeks! Maybe we share some interests. I want to help everyone live in a well designed environment where it’s easy to socialise and get around, for one
krm01 2y ago
Makerspaces are fantastic. I've spent a bunch of time in a few in Amsterdam. The only thing that would make them better is a tiny more focus on the business side of making. I've seen amazing things being built, but if there's zero thinking spent on getting it in the hands of people, nobody can benefit from the amazing work that happens within those walls.
- carschno 2y ago
  Can you recommend some in Amsterdam?
thiago_fm 2y ago
Awesome. I live nearby Mariendorf and the south of Berlin is a forgotten area for companies, most of them want to stay inside the circle. Makerspaces helped me kickstart my career almost 2 decades ago back in my country. Great memories.
- resiros 2y ago
  Ditto, living there too. South Berlin is unfortunately desolate, with more graveyards than coffee shops. It would be awesome if it would change.
piokoch 2y ago
[flagged]
- palata 2y ago
  This is such bad faith. Your link talks about a "fun experiment" in an "area underprovisioned with bandwidth", where they are faster to deliver a DVD 10km away than uploading it. I can't even begin to explain how this is nothing more than a fun anecdote that has absolutely nothing to do with innovation in Europe. > CD is that shiny piece of plastic that you can put your data, if you youngsters do not know what it is They are sending 4.5GB on a DVD. DVD is that thing that looks like a CD on the outside, but can hold more data. Since you don't seem to know the difference.
  - tacet 2y ago
    math comes to about 5 megabits upload. not great, but i could live with that.
- martin_a 2y ago
  Story from 2021, lots has happened since then. The 800 people village, right in the middle of nowhere, where I'm from, has Gbit fiber connection now. Lots of places have.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
margorczynski 2y ago
I've been hearing the same spiel for more than a decade where Berlin (or some other "hip" city) was supposed to be Europe's incubator of cutting edge tech & business. It never works out, it'll be the home of some minor SaaS startups but that's all. The main problem in Europe in regards to tech are the regulations but even more so the mindset - European's are much more risk-averse than Americans, you'll never get the funding you'll need for a scale-up like Uber because it's too risky. The alternative path is the Asian one (heavy-handed government that top-down constructs the companies, market and tries to grow them blocking buy-out from western competition) but Europe is in some strange hybrid-mode between the two which doesn't seem to work. Currently I think for European countries there is a big chance to shake-up the military&weapons market considering current geopolitics instead of artificially propping up worthless IT startups hoping for an unicorn.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > European's are much more risk-averse than Americans, you'll never get the funding you'll need for a scale-up like Uber because it's too risky. The key difference is that Europe has actual pensions backed by some sort of government scheme where the current working generation pays into a pool that gets then distributed to the current pensioner generation. That means we don't have trillions of dollars of money that is desperately screaming for the even most minuscule return and is spread so wide across all possible investment asset classes that even a complete collapse of one investment won't wipe out even close enough money to be actually felt by the pensioners. One might of course argue "hey let's just change over to stock-market based schemes", but that's effectively the same - if you are working now and paying in into an ETF or whatnot, someone will have to be working 30 years in the future to generate the wealth you will be drawing off of.
  - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
    >the current working generation pays into a pool that gets then distributed to the current pensioner generation How do you manage to sell a government controlled Ponzi scheme tied to demographics as a benefit?
resiros 2y ago
I am a founder who lives 10 minute walk from there. I never heard about it before. It's exciting and all, but I am quite certain no member of our team would be happy to commute to Mariendorf for work :D
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

129 points by doener 2y ago

jmkd 2y ago

For ref this is the UK's largest equivalent (focussed on physical making), is fully operational and highly recommended https://bloqslondon.com/ https://bloqslondon.com/

ongy 2y ago

> Europe’s largest makerspace for founders, startups, SMEs and many other creators This feels like it'll have none of the community character that makes maker's spaces what they are And more of a rental machines co-working space sort of character

Lucasoato 2y ago
If it’s almost free and access is guaranteed depending on merit it’s a good thing. If it’s super expensive and for few people… early stage startups shouldn’t waste too much money on offices anyway…
- grumpy-de-sre 2y ago
  It's private/public partnership with an established "makerspace" called Motion.Lab. Historically their cheapest memberships have been 250 EUR per month. Unless something changes this initiative is an incubator/business park. It's interesting that the state is contributing, but it looks like the intention there is to encourage industrial startups to the city. That's probably a great thing to do but I think calling it a makerspace is stretching the definition a bit.
ValentineC 2y ago
+1 to this. That said, it'll probably allow people to get more things done than at a community space, especially with professional operators making sure things are maintained properly. Since it seems to be initiated and funded by the state, I give it between 2 to 4 years before funding runs out, politics change at the top, and the space shutters to make way for newer, more exciting ideas though.
arlcode 2y ago
Indeed. I believe it is a different category altogether and probably good that they are kept separate. Just as cheap office spaces for fledgling machine sharing opportunities may give founders the help they need in the very first stages of a company. Community spaces on the other hand move at a slower pace and are driven by the enthusiasm and volunteer time of their members. Both of which are hard to maintain if the effort ultimately benefits a commercial venture. These kind of "shared hobby cellars" are still very viable and can collect and impressive inventory of tooling. Sometimes people move from one to the other. Different use cases different approaches. It's unfortunate that the same name is applied to both.
joshvm 2y ago
Liverpool had one of these. The universities bought in and in principle academics had access to use the space and materials costed to the institution. So yes, a co-working space with access to fabrication equipment and a few small companies in residence. Very expensive for private consumers and we were never sure who'd get the bill if we used the fancier machines, so it was underutilised. Eg some high end LPKF PCB equipment that could do printed antennas and all sorts of interesting stuff, but the rental cost was rarely worth it over rush ordering from places like oshpark. Kind of an odd setup because any company that actually needed the kit (eg a darkroom for optical prep) would be better off renting a tiny industrial space and building out their own labs, and contracting out the rest. And since the universities paid into it they could have pushed for ownership and made it a proper facility for students and researchers. https://lbndaily.co.uk/sensor-city-in-liverpool-could-reopen-in-months https://lbndaily.co.uk/sensor-city-in-liverpool-could-reopen...
- dagw 2y ago
  That matches my experience with this sort of makerspace. It launched with much fanfare and I was really excited. However it was far too expensive for me to use as a private individual, and didn't have enough high end or specialised equipment to make it worthwhile for most companies in the area. It was very disappointing all around. I walked past it on my way to and from work and never saw anybody there. A couple of years later it closed down.
esafak 2y ago
I balked when I saw it refer to the makers as "stakeholders". It sounds like something a "policymaker" who's never set foot in a makerspace would say. Good luck, I suppose.

bradhe 2y ago

As a founder in Berlin, I get excited when my city does stuff like this and is well represented in the maker community. Germany has a long way to go to really create a culture that fosters innovation, but these are the right first steps. I think this is something Americans (I'm American, born and raised on the west coast) don't understand: They talk shit about EU innovation and talk up their own dominance, but the tides are turning and the EU is motivated. The landscape will look very, very different in a few years.

lippihom 2y ago
Also a founder in Berlin from the west coast. Agree with everything you wrote. Tower.dev looks cool btw.
trueismywork 2y ago
We will see. To say that EU doesn't have systemically huge problems to innovation is delusional though. And I'm pretty sure those problems cannot be fixed by just announcing new things. The announcement looks like a. Lot of fluff and pomp
- simianparrot 2y ago
  Which is exactly the problem with most of Europe -- a lot of talk, but little action, not out of a lack of motivation but because of the amount of heavy-handed bureaucracy, taxation, and anti-startup culture. That last one might sound odd when many countries, including mine, has a lot of startup schemes -- from tax cuts to innovation funding etc. But all of that is so bureaucratic and slow and complicated that it's only by accident that it helps anyone. "I'll believe it when I see it happen" is my approach to anything Europe, because I've lived within it for nearly forty years now. And I'm wise from experience. I've seen this before. Same song, worse bureaucracy, different faces (politicians).
roenxi 2y ago
> They talk shit about EU innovation and talk up their own dominance, but the tides are turning and the EU is motivated. I'm waiting for the day when a country stands up and says their strategy is to be unmotivated and commit to outdated approaches. Most of them seem to have huge crowds of motivated and capable people who are then swatted down by the local court system because success makes the powers that be uncomfortable. I'd feel more optimistic if you had a specific mistake that Europe was going to stop making. Maybe adjustments to tax laws. Motivation doesn't cut it against people like the Americans or the Chinese, there needs to be actual actions taken beyond makerspaces. Germany seems to have purposefully triggered a domestic energy crisis, that balances out a lot of makerspaces.

mg 2y ago

The site should have an RSS feed. I sometimes visit Berlin and if I could add their news and events to my Berlin feed, that would be nice.

mtmail 2y ago
https://www.berlin-partner.de/en/contact https://www.berlin-partner.de/en/contact

CalRobert 2y ago

Any recommendations for an equivalent in the Randstad?

arjonagelhout 2y ago
I'm interested in this too. I just moved to Utrecht and WFH / sitting in cafés isn't the most inspiring environment.
- CalRobert 2y ago
  Hi! I’m moving to Houten in a few weeks! Maybe we share some interests. I want to help everyone live in a well designed environment where it’s easy to socialise and get around, for one

krm01 2y ago

Makerspaces are fantastic. I've spent a bunch of time in a few in Amsterdam. The only thing that would make them better is a tiny more focus on the business side of making. I've seen amazing things being built, but if there's zero thinking spent on getting it in the hands of people, nobody can benefit from the amazing work that happens within those walls.

carschno 2y ago
Can you recommend some in Amsterdam?

thiago_fm 2y ago

Awesome. I live nearby Mariendorf and the south of Berlin is a forgotten area for companies, most of them want to stay inside the circle. Makerspaces helped me kickstart my career almost 2 decades ago back in my country. Great memories.

resiros 2y ago
Ditto, living there too. South Berlin is unfortunately desolate, with more graveyards than coffee shops. It would be awesome if it would change.

piokoch 2y ago

[flagged]

palata 2y ago
This is such bad faith. Your link talks about a "fun experiment" in an "area underprovisioned with bandwidth", where they are faster to deliver a DVD 10km away than uploading it. I can't even begin to explain how this is nothing more than a fun anecdote that has absolutely nothing to do with innovation in Europe. > CD is that shiny piece of plastic that you can put your data, if you youngsters do not know what it is They are sending 4.5GB on a DVD. DVD is that thing that looks like a CD on the outside, but can hold more data. Since you don't seem to know the difference.
- tacet 2y ago
  math comes to about 5 megabits upload. not great, but i could live with that.
martin_a 2y ago
Story from 2021, lots has happened since then. The 800 people village, right in the middle of nowhere, where I'm from, has Gbit fiber connection now. Lots of places have.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

margorczynski 2y ago

I've been hearing the same spiel for more than a decade where Berlin (or some other "hip" city) was supposed to be Europe's incubator of cutting edge tech & business. It never works out, it'll be the home of some minor SaaS startups but that's all. The main problem in Europe in regards to tech are the regulations but even more so the mindset - European's are much more risk-averse than Americans, you'll never get the funding you'll need for a scale-up like Uber because it's too risky. The alternative path is the Asian one (heavy-handed government that top-down constructs the companies, market and tries to grow them blocking buy-out from western competition) but Europe is in some strange hybrid-mode between the two which doesn't seem to work. Currently I think for European countries there is a big chance to shake-up the military&weapons market considering current geopolitics instead of artificially propping up worthless IT startups hoping for an unicorn.

mschuster91 2y ago
> European's are much more risk-averse than Americans, you'll never get the funding you'll need for a scale-up like Uber because it's too risky. The key difference is that Europe has actual pensions backed by some sort of government scheme where the current working generation pays into a pool that gets then distributed to the current pensioner generation. That means we don't have trillions of dollars of money that is desperately screaming for the even most minuscule return and is spread so wide across all possible investment asset classes that even a complete collapse of one investment won't wipe out even close enough money to be actually felt by the pensioners. One might of course argue "hey let's just change over to stock-market based schemes", but that's effectively the same - if you are working now and paying in into an ETF or whatnot, someone will have to be working 30 years in the future to generate the wealth you will be drawing off of.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  >the current working generation pays into a pool that gets then distributed to the current pensioner generation How do you manage to sell a government controlled Ponzi scheme tied to demographics as a benefit?

resiros 2y ago

I am a founder who lives 10 minute walk from there. I never heard about it before. It's exciting and all, but I am quite certain no member of our team would be happy to commute to Mariendorf for work :D

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]