4 ms·

Not sure how you could possibly come up with this idea — but I’d recommend not consuming hysterical media narratives and instead looking at actual data. This is

Not sure how you could possibly come up with this idea — but I’d recommend not consuming hysterical media narratives and instead looking at actual data. This is a chart of globally relevant companies founded in Europe in the last 50 years: https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/s/1Fn23uYVxK https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/s/1Fn23uYVxK The data depicts the exact opposite of what you are saying. As an entrepreneur, you can be “safe” knowing you will have far less chance to succeed in the EU.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ta1243 2y ago
Stop pretending that America of today is anything like America of 15 years ago
- pembrook 2y ago
  Please elaborate on the anti-entrepreneur shifts that have occurred in the US in the last 15 years that would disrupt this trend. I’m not aware of them. If this were true, 15 years would definitely be enough time to show up in some form of data you can cite about the death of American startup culture.
  - Marazan 2y ago
    Who is talking about the last 15 years? We are talking about the last 15 weeks. America has jut installed a corrupt autocratic government that has immediately become mired in corruption, graft and defiance of the rule of law. That will have a negative effect going forward.
    - pembrook 2y ago
      Not sure how young you are, but I highly recommend not making decisions based on the hysterical 2-year swinging pendulum of American political rhetoric. American media is just as innovative as the rest of their economy, meaning they are constantly finding ways to prey on your emotions and your eyeballs with stories and content. In reality, the US government is one of the most static, unchanging organizations on the planet. The US government has been trying to get Europe to invest in its own defense for 50+ years. It's been trying to solve immigration for 50+ years. It's been trying to come to a solution on healthcare for 50+ years. Nothing is going to happen in the next 4 decades let alone the next 4 years.
      - ta1243 2y ago
        > The US government has been trying to get Europe to invest in its own defense for 50+ years Blatantly untrue. America has spent 50 years ensuring europe is reliant on America for security, because America likes the economic benefits that brings.
        pembrook 2y ago
        Joe Biden on the floor of the US senate over 30+ years ago complaining about how Europe has no coherent common strategy on defense: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA9eMKNCRuQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA9eMKNCRuQ
        skyyler 2y ago
        >"When have the Germans moved in a way to unify that continent?" Uh, Joe, it was a pretty bad scene the last time that happened.
        ta1243 2y ago
        Here's actual US policy https://www.ft.com/content/ad16ce08-763b-11e9-bbad-7c18c0ea0201 https://www.ft.com/content/ad16ce08-763b-11e9-bbad-7c18c0ea0... > The US has warned that greater military co-operation between EU countries would be a “dramatic reversal” of three decades of transatlantic defence integration, in the latest sign of the fraying relationship between Washington and Brussels. That's 2019. When Trump was in power. > It said that Washington was “deeply concerned” that approval of the rules for the European Defence Fund and the Permanent Structured Cooperation, or Pesco, launched in 2017 to plug gaps in Europe’s military power, would “produce duplication, non-interoperable military systems, diversion of scarce defence resources and unnecessary competition between Nato and the EU”.
        veidr 2y ago
        They are both true. America engineered the previous world order, where the West relied on American protection, which at the same time helped keep the dollar the world currency and America the most influential and powerful nation. At the same time, they complained about Europe not doing enough and shouldering enough of the burden, and I find it plausible that they legitimately did wish Europe would do that, the above paragraph notwithstanding.
bildung 2y ago
These just compare market cap. As the US economy is disproportionally financialized, that outcome is hardly surprising: This was just measuring market financialization by proxy. I mean two of the largest on the left, Google and Meta, are essentially just ad companies. Now compare companies by actual revenue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_in_Europe_by_revenue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_in_E... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_in_the_United_States_by_revenue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_in_t... I omitted the 50 years distinction because, unsurprisingly, the companies in the US are younger. None of these are actually relevant for founders, however, as even in the US you only have a couple dozen large cap companies, but millions of founders. What is relevant is the share of employers per capita, as that shows us how many founders actually exist. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.EMP.MPYR.ZS?most_recent_value_desc=true&locations=US https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.EMP.MPYR.ZS?most_rec... https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.EMP.MPYR.ZS?most_recent_value_desc=true&locations=EU https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.EMP.MPYR.ZS?most_rec...
- pembrook 2y ago
  Yes, Europe did have great entrepreneurial culture in the past, but the point of the “founded in the last 50 years” distinction is to measure how things have been going for entrepreneurs who are still alive today. You can’t call a region a “safe haven for entrepreneurs” if all the globally relevant entrepreneurs from that region are dead from old age. Remember, Europe has double the population of the US. To lag behind so dramatically in the last 50 years is absolutely something to be concerned about. Having to move the goalposts to the 1850s to make a point about relevant European businesses should be alarming to you.
  - immibis 2y ago
    Lag by what measure? Cities are just better as cities, laws are annoyingly bureaucratic but actually work, your neighbour isn't likely to shoot you dead... The US does better on abstract statistics like GDP, but... GDP is biased in favour of whoever issues the global reserve currency, so that doesn't actually mean a lot unless you are specifically trying to accumulate units of global reserve currency.
Marazan 2y ago
Historical data is not great for forming an argument when the basis is that things have radically changed and historical results don't matter anymore.
casey2 2y ago
How much of this is because of the US strong-arming companies in their sphere of influence? Nobody here actually forgot the MegaUpload fiasco, it's just that people pretend to forget abusive relationships.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

ta1243 2y ago

Stop pretending that America of today is anything like America of 15 years ago

pembrook 2y ago
Please elaborate on the anti-entrepreneur shifts that have occurred in the US in the last 15 years that would disrupt this trend. I’m not aware of them. If this were true, 15 years would definitely be enough time to show up in some form of data you can cite about the death of American startup culture.
- Marazan 2y ago
  Who is talking about the last 15 years? We are talking about the last 15 weeks. America has jut installed a corrupt autocratic government that has immediately become mired in corruption, graft and defiance of the rule of law. That will have a negative effect going forward.
  - pembrook 2y ago
    Not sure how young you are, but I highly recommend not making decisions based on the hysterical 2-year swinging pendulum of American political rhetoric. American media is just as innovative as the rest of their economy, meaning they are constantly finding ways to prey on your emotions and your eyeballs with stories and content. In reality, the US government is one of the most static, unchanging organizations on the planet. The US government has been trying to get Europe to invest in its own defense for 50+ years. It's been trying to solve immigration for 50+ years. It's been trying to come to a solution on healthcare for 50+ years. Nothing is going to happen in the next 4 decades let alone the next 4 years.
    - ta1243 2y ago
      > The US government has been trying to get Europe to invest in its own defense for 50+ years Blatantly untrue. America has spent 50 years ensuring europe is reliant on America for security, because America likes the economic benefits that brings.
      - pembrook 2y ago
        Joe Biden on the floor of the US senate over 30+ years ago complaining about how Europe has no coherent common strategy on defense: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA9eMKNCRuQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA9eMKNCRuQ
        skyyler 2y ago
        >"When have the Germans moved in a way to unify that continent?" Uh, Joe, it was a pretty bad scene the last time that happened.
        ta1243 2y ago
        Here's actual US policy https://www.ft.com/content/ad16ce08-763b-11e9-bbad-7c18c0ea0201 https://www.ft.com/content/ad16ce08-763b-11e9-bbad-7c18c0ea0... > The US has warned that greater military co-operation between EU countries would be a “dramatic reversal” of three decades of transatlantic defence integration, in the latest sign of the fraying relationship between Washington and Brussels. That's 2019. When Trump was in power. > It said that Washington was “deeply concerned” that approval of the rules for the European Defence Fund and the Permanent Structured Cooperation, or Pesco, launched in 2017 to plug gaps in Europe’s military power, would “produce duplication, non-interoperable military systems, diversion of scarce defence resources and unnecessary competition between Nato and the EU”.
      - veidr 2y ago
        They are both true. America engineered the previous world order, where the West relied on American protection, which at the same time helped keep the dollar the world currency and America the most influential and powerful nation. At the same time, they complained about Europe not doing enough and shouldering enough of the burden, and I find it plausible that they legitimately did wish Europe would do that, the above paragraph notwithstanding.

bildung 2y ago

These just compare market cap. As the US economy is disproportionally financialized, that outcome is hardly surprising: This was just measuring market financialization by proxy. I mean two of the largest on the left, Google and Meta, are essentially just ad companies. Now compare companies by actual revenue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_in_Europe_by_revenue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_in_E... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_in_the_United_States_by_revenue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_in_t... I omitted the 50 years distinction because, unsurprisingly, the companies in the US are younger. None of these are actually relevant for founders, however, as even in the US you only have a couple dozen large cap companies, but millions of founders. What is relevant is the share of employers per capita, as that shows us how many founders actually exist. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.EMP.MPYR.ZS?most_recent_value_desc=true&locations=US https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.EMP.MPYR.ZS?most_rec... https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.EMP.MPYR.ZS?most_recent_value_desc=true&locations=EU https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.EMP.MPYR.ZS?most_rec...

pembrook 2y ago
Yes, Europe did have great entrepreneurial culture in the past, but the point of the “founded in the last 50 years” distinction is to measure how things have been going for entrepreneurs who are still alive today. You can’t call a region a “safe haven for entrepreneurs” if all the globally relevant entrepreneurs from that region are dead from old age. Remember, Europe has double the population of the US. To lag behind so dramatically in the last 50 years is absolutely something to be concerned about. Having to move the goalposts to the 1850s to make a point about relevant European businesses should be alarming to you.
- immibis 2y ago
  Lag by what measure? Cities are just better as cities, laws are annoyingly bureaucratic but actually work, your neighbour isn't likely to shoot you dead... The US does better on abstract statistics like GDP, but... GDP is biased in favour of whoever issues the global reserve currency, so that doesn't actually mean a lot unless you are specifically trying to accumulate units of global reserve currency.

Marazan 2y ago

Historical data is not great for forming an argument when the basis is that things have radically changed and historical results don't matter anymore.

casey2 2y ago

How much of this is because of the US strong-arming companies in their sphere of influence? Nobody here actually forgot the MegaUpload fiasco, it's just that people pretend to forget abusive relationships.