6 ms·

German electrical engineer with green card stripped and 'violently interrogated'

94 points by KnuthIsGod 2y ago

gnabgib 2y ago
Related (one of the three) Germany tightens travel advice to US after three citizens detained (182 points, 5 days ago, 168 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43433071 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43433071
madhacker 2y ago
So much for "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." We have installed a despotic ruler and his cronies.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  We lost that concept way before Trump. Any immigration law that gates entry likely runs afoul of the poem on the statue of liberty. Blocking entry from specific countries may be a gray area, but anything that blocks based on merit is a problem and those laws have existed for quite some time now.
  - Hammershaft 2y ago
    A fellow ellis island enjoyer?
  - soerxpso 2y ago
    Despite the poem, Ellis Island has always turned away individuals with known criminal records (although a 'known' record was much rarer at the time) and anyone they thought was likely to become a public charge. Our immigration policy in the previous 4 years was actually significantly more permissive than when that poem was put on that statue.
    - Hammershaft 2y ago
      It absolutely is not more permissive today because legal pathways to migration are hideously convoluted, and let a sliver of the people that ellis island did.
- whynotmaybe 2y ago
  With the history classes I remember, I'm starting to feel that this won't end well. Peace in Europe now seems like nothing more than the remnants of a dream, just like the American dream. Maybe we've reached a place where this quote from Catch 22 (also sampled in Survivor Guilt from Rise Against) is more relevant than ever : "Rome was destroyed Greece was destroyed, Persia was destroyed Spain was destroyed All great countries are destroyed Why not yours? How much longer do you think your country will last? Forever?"
- jopython 2y ago
  Imagine migrating million and millions of tired, poor and the huddled masses from all over the world to America?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
jmyeet 2y ago
If anyone is unfortunate enough to find themselves in a situation where they have legal status and are likewise detained upon re-entering the US, CBP cannot strip you of your green card. Only an immigration judge can do that. CBP may try and pressure you into self-deporting. This article mentions that. You do not have to sign that form and you have an absolutely right to go before an immigration judge. That being said, the rule of law means increasingly less where the government is now defying court orders with absolutely no repercussions [1]. This is the US in its 1933+ Germany arc. [1]: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-removes-hundreds-alleged-venezuelan-gang-members-under-now-blocked-authority-2025-03-16/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-removes-hundreds-alleged...
- _heimdall 2y ago
  If the US today truly is akin to Germany in 1933 we should all be taking up arms.
- parineum 2y ago
  If you could go back in time, would you kill Hitler?
  - blooalien 2y ago
    > parineum: "If you could go back in time, would you kill Hitler?" If you could go back in time, would you? That whole "Butterfly Effect" thing is more than just a little terrifying when you start to wander down that rabbit-hole even a little bit. How completely screwed up could the future you return to end up bein', and does it just keep gettin' worse the more you try to "fix" it? Is finding out worth the risk of trying? Just feels like one of those "bells you cannot un-ring". I genuinely hope nobody ever actually invents real time travel. I just cannot see that playing out well at all.
    - trilbyglens 2y ago
      Well you would never know about it. For all you know it's already happened and we're all living an "altered" timeline.
iLoveOncall 2y ago
The article mentions a lot of cases, but I'm really wondering if all of this is new following Trump's changes in policies or if it's just business as usual. All the situations from the article seem like they had a legitimate reason for the person being detained and / or prevented from entering the country, and we also only hear a one-sided story. I actually travelled to the US yesterday for business meetings and I was a bit worried after all those fear-mongering articles from the past few weeks, but immigration took me literally 3 minutes, and was as easy as when I came 6 months ago.
- Afforess 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - parineum 2y ago
    Was it unlawful and is it happening more? The article doesn't address that for it's anecdotes. So much for facts.
- parineum 2y ago
  I was really hoping we wouldn't be getting the same kind of fodder this time around but the last few months disabused me of that hope. There's plenty to be concerned about with this administration but the majority of reporting is going to be schlock like this, an article of anecdotes that confirm biases without a shred of mention of if anything resembling data.
- chairmansteve 2y ago
  I think jailing European tourists for minor/non existent offences is new. It would have been headline news if it had happened before.
- wyldfire 2y ago
  > we also only hear a one-sided story. That's not true, though. From the article: > The US Customs and Border Protection service told US media the claims about his case were “blatantly false”, without saying which points it disputed. > The CBP sent the Guardian the same statement, without further explanation. The statement also said: “When an individual is found with drug-related charges and tries to reenter the country, officers will take proper action.” Clearly, the press here tried to get the government's side of the story, and they included the extent of their response. > immigration took me literally 3 minutes, and was as easy as when I came 6 months ago. This strikes me as very disingenuous. Are you suggesting that since you didn't have a problem that none exists?
Manjunath_dn 2y ago
Is this outrage primarily because of his German nationality? Because this happens regularly to other country citizens..
- anon743448 2y ago
  Yeah, all these victims are white. For years, people been treated far worse, their stories shared in social media but it never make it to mainstream media. Sad but hopefully these stories will bring some positive changes in immigration system for everyone.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    It’s going to get much worse before it gets better.
  - ranger_danger 2y ago
    I disagree, there have been multiple high profile stories of people the government is trying to (or has already) deport who were not white, like the Brown University Doctor Rasha Alawieh, or Columbia University student Mahmoud Khalil. Maybe the unfortunate bigger link between the amount of public outrage is that these people are upper/middle class. But in all of these cases, they were alleged to have violated conditions of their visa, which is not an uncommon thing and exactly what the courts are for. Evidence will be presented (or not) and then a ruling will be made. Even for the most extreme situations like Venezuela, those cases are still in court and very much ongoing. To me it just seems like the amount of outrage is disproportionate because most of these cases are unsettled and too many assumptions are being made. As for why so many stories happening in a short period, the Trump administration has stated that existing laws simply weren't being enforced, and now they are. Which if true, could certainly be a simpler (and less inflammatory) reason why these cases are appearing now.
- decimalenough 2y ago
  Not really: until very recently, it was quite unusual for legitimate Green Card holders to be held at the border.
decimalenough 2y ago
His mom: "he had faced misdemeanour charges about 10 years ago." CBP: “When an individual is found with drug-related charges and tries to reenter the country, officers will take proper action.” Assuming they're both referring to the same incident, the conclusion is that CBP is now turning back Green Card holders who have ever faced any drug-related charges. (It's not clear from the article, but the careful wording "has no active legal issues" suggests that he was convicted.)
- buckle8017 2y ago
  It has always been an automatic disqualifing event to be convicted of any drug crime. The only question is whether they were looking before.
  - robotapertama 2y ago
    So I guess there is no way in hell Australia is going to allow a convicted felon to enter the country.
    - underseacables 2y ago
      Fun fact: The designer of the Sydney Opera House was turned away at the border when he came to see it, because he had an inordinate amount of pornographic material with him. He never got to see his creation in person.
      - defrost 2y ago
        Do you have a good source for that? Most biographies have Jørn Utzon declining invitations to attend the opening and to later design the interiors in Australia (he did so remotely) after some major fallings out over cost with a new government after those that intially commissioned the work left. eg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B8rn_Utzon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B8rn_Utzon https://www.abcalumni.au/utzon_finding_the_master_architect https://www.abcalumni.au/utzon_finding_the_master_architect It's difficult to imagine him turned away at the border if the record is accurate that he never attempted to return after leaving.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
rahimnathwani 2y ago
Although I'm not fully versed in every detail of the case, the article’s phrasing raises serious concerns about its accuracy and intent. For example, this sentence > And a British woman was detained in “horrendous conditions” for three weeks, her family said, after a *visa mix-up*. [emphasis mine] implies a simple administrative error. However, as detailed later in the article and supported by well-known facts, the situation was more complex. In reality: - The woman had been working in the US in exchange for accommodation — an arrangement explicitly prohibited under a tourist visa. - She then attempted to replicate this arrangement in Canada, only to be turned away. - By the time she was redirected, US authorities had already identified that she had violated visa regulations by working. A straightforward search for “work in return for accommodation USA visa” clearly confirms that tourist visas do not permit any form of employment, whether paid in cash or in kind. It’s understandable that enforcement measures must serve as a deterrent, and not just return the situation to what it should have been. But even if he severity of detention might be debatable in this case, the core issue here is the article’s misleading characterization. Using the term "visa mix-up" not only downplays the deliberate actions taken by the individual but also appears intended to cast doubt as to whether the fault lies with the individual or with the US government.
- ffsm8 2y ago
  "the work" she was doing was domestic chores? Like "you can live for free in this room as long as you keep the house clean". It's not like she went there to work, she just did chores Frankly, you're the one that miss characterizing her.
  - rahimnathwani 2y ago
    What is special about the nature of the work (domestic chores)? Would you see things differently if she were working as a barista or doing a bit of coding in return for accommodation? If so, why? When you say "It's not like she went there to work, she just did chores" you seem to imply that people come to the US because they want to work. They come for various reasons, and work is a thing that's necessary for most people, to achieve other ends. For this woman, working during her vacation was a means to fund her travels. She didn't come to the US with work as her primary purpose, but I'm assuming the work was integral to her plan because otherwise accommodation would be expensive.
eesmith 2y ago
"No one truly knows a nation until one has been inside its jails. A nation should not be judged by how it treats its highest citizens but its lowest ones." - Nelson Mandela
- trilbyglens 2y ago
  Well, we pretty spectacularly fail that test.
  - eesmith 2y ago
    Yup. And have for a very long time. At least when I was a kid there was the idea that prisons should be used to rehabilitate. Now it seems like it's only for cruel punishment and profit extraction.
the_70x 2y ago
White privilege is over, welcome to third world treatment
- trilbyglens 2y ago
  This is really what's happening. The outrage comes from white folks finally seeing into the reality of how america has treated minority people since forever.

94 points by KnuthIsGod 2y ago

Related (one of the three) Germany tightens travel advice to US after three citizens detained (182 points, 5 days ago, 168 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43433071 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43433071

madhacker 2y ago

So much for "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." We have installed a despotic ruler and his cronies.

_heimdall 2y ago
We lost that concept way before Trump. Any immigration law that gates entry likely runs afoul of the poem on the statue of liberty. Blocking entry from specific countries may be a gray area, but anything that blocks based on merit is a problem and those laws have existed for quite some time now.
- Hammershaft 2y ago
  A fellow ellis island enjoyer?
- soerxpso 2y ago
  Despite the poem, Ellis Island has always turned away individuals with known criminal records (although a 'known' record was much rarer at the time) and anyone they thought was likely to become a public charge. Our immigration policy in the previous 4 years was actually significantly more permissive than when that poem was put on that statue.
  - Hammershaft 2y ago
    It absolutely is not more permissive today because legal pathways to migration are hideously convoluted, and let a sliver of the people that ellis island did.
whynotmaybe 2y ago
With the history classes I remember, I'm starting to feel that this won't end well. Peace in Europe now seems like nothing more than the remnants of a dream, just like the American dream. Maybe we've reached a place where this quote from Catch 22 (also sampled in Survivor Guilt from Rise Against) is more relevant than ever : "Rome was destroyed Greece was destroyed, Persia was destroyed Spain was destroyed All great countries are destroyed Why not yours? How much longer do you think your country will last? Forever?"
jopython 2y ago
Imagine migrating million and millions of tired, poor and the huddled masses from all over the world to America?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

jmyeet 2y ago

If anyone is unfortunate enough to find themselves in a situation where they have legal status and are likewise detained upon re-entering the US, CBP cannot strip you of your green card. Only an immigration judge can do that. CBP may try and pressure you into self-deporting. This article mentions that. You do not have to sign that form and you have an absolutely right to go before an immigration judge. That being said, the rule of law means increasingly less where the government is now defying court orders with absolutely no repercussions [1]. This is the US in its 1933+ Germany arc. [1]: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-removes-hundreds-alleged-venezuelan-gang-members-under-now-blocked-authority-2025-03-16/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-removes-hundreds-alleged...

_heimdall 2y ago
If the US today truly is akin to Germany in 1933 we should all be taking up arms.
parineum 2y ago
If you could go back in time, would you kill Hitler?
- blooalien 2y ago
  > parineum: "If you could go back in time, would you kill Hitler?" If you could go back in time, would you? That whole "Butterfly Effect" thing is more than just a little terrifying when you start to wander down that rabbit-hole even a little bit. How completely screwed up could the future you return to end up bein', and does it just keep gettin' worse the more you try to "fix" it? Is finding out worth the risk of trying? Just feels like one of those "bells you cannot un-ring". I genuinely hope nobody ever actually invents real time travel. I just cannot see that playing out well at all.
  - trilbyglens 2y ago
    Well you would never know about it. For all you know it's already happened and we're all living an "altered" timeline.

iLoveOncall 2y ago

The article mentions a lot of cases, but I'm really wondering if all of this is new following Trump's changes in policies or if it's just business as usual. All the situations from the article seem like they had a legitimate reason for the person being detained and / or prevented from entering the country, and we also only hear a one-sided story. I actually travelled to the US yesterday for business meetings and I was a bit worried after all those fear-mongering articles from the past few weeks, but immigration took me literally 3 minutes, and was as easy as when I came 6 months ago.

Afforess 2y ago
[flagged]
- parineum 2y ago
  Was it unlawful and is it happening more? The article doesn't address that for it's anecdotes. So much for facts.
parineum 2y ago
I was really hoping we wouldn't be getting the same kind of fodder this time around but the last few months disabused me of that hope. There's plenty to be concerned about with this administration but the majority of reporting is going to be schlock like this, an article of anecdotes that confirm biases without a shred of mention of if anything resembling data.
chairmansteve 2y ago
I think jailing European tourists for minor/non existent offences is new. It would have been headline news if it had happened before.
wyldfire 2y ago
> we also only hear a one-sided story. That's not true, though. From the article: > The US Customs and Border Protection service told US media the claims about his case were “blatantly false”, without saying which points it disputed. > The CBP sent the Guardian the same statement, without further explanation. The statement also said: “When an individual is found with drug-related charges and tries to reenter the country, officers will take proper action.” Clearly, the press here tried to get the government's side of the story, and they included the extent of their response. > immigration took me literally 3 minutes, and was as easy as when I came 6 months ago. This strikes me as very disingenuous. Are you suggesting that since you didn't have a problem that none exists?

Manjunath_dn 2y ago

Is this outrage primarily because of his German nationality? Because this happens regularly to other country citizens..

anon743448 2y ago
Yeah, all these victims are white. For years, people been treated far worse, their stories shared in social media but it never make it to mainstream media. Sad but hopefully these stories will bring some positive changes in immigration system for everyone.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  It’s going to get much worse before it gets better.
- ranger_danger 2y ago
  I disagree, there have been multiple high profile stories of people the government is trying to (or has already) deport who were not white, like the Brown University Doctor Rasha Alawieh, or Columbia University student Mahmoud Khalil. Maybe the unfortunate bigger link between the amount of public outrage is that these people are upper/middle class. But in all of these cases, they were alleged to have violated conditions of their visa, which is not an uncommon thing and exactly what the courts are for. Evidence will be presented (or not) and then a ruling will be made. Even for the most extreme situations like Venezuela, those cases are still in court and very much ongoing. To me it just seems like the amount of outrage is disproportionate because most of these cases are unsettled and too many assumptions are being made. As for why so many stories happening in a short period, the Trump administration has stated that existing laws simply weren't being enforced, and now they are. Which if true, could certainly be a simpler (and less inflammatory) reason why these cases are appearing now.
decimalenough 2y ago
Not really: until very recently, it was quite unusual for legitimate Green Card holders to be held at the border.

decimalenough 2y ago

His mom: "he had faced misdemeanour charges about 10 years ago." CBP: “When an individual is found with drug-related charges and tries to reenter the country, officers will take proper action.” Assuming they're both referring to the same incident, the conclusion is that CBP is now turning back Green Card holders who have ever faced any drug-related charges. (It's not clear from the article, but the careful wording "has no active legal issues" suggests that he was convicted.)

buckle8017 2y ago
It has always been an automatic disqualifing event to be convicted of any drug crime. The only question is whether they were looking before.
- robotapertama 2y ago
  So I guess there is no way in hell Australia is going to allow a convicted felon to enter the country.
  - underseacables 2y ago
    Fun fact: The designer of the Sydney Opera House was turned away at the border when he came to see it, because he had an inordinate amount of pornographic material with him. He never got to see his creation in person.
    - defrost 2y ago
      Do you have a good source for that? Most biographies have Jørn Utzon declining invitations to attend the opening and to later design the interiors in Australia (he did so remotely) after some major fallings out over cost with a new government after those that intially commissioned the work left. eg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B8rn_Utzon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B8rn_Utzon https://www.abcalumni.au/utzon_finding_the_master_architect https://www.abcalumni.au/utzon_finding_the_master_architect It's difficult to imagine him turned away at the border if the record is accurate that he never attempted to return after leaving.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

rahimnathwani 2y ago

Although I'm not fully versed in every detail of the case, the article’s phrasing raises serious concerns about its accuracy and intent. For example, this sentence > And a British woman was detained in “horrendous conditions” for three weeks, her family said, after a *visa mix-up*. [emphasis mine] implies a simple administrative error. However, as detailed later in the article and supported by well-known facts, the situation was more complex. In reality: - The woman had been working in the US in exchange for accommodation — an arrangement explicitly prohibited under a tourist visa. - She then attempted to replicate this arrangement in Canada, only to be turned away. - By the time she was redirected, US authorities had already identified that she had violated visa regulations by working. A straightforward search for “work in return for accommodation USA visa” clearly confirms that tourist visas do not permit any form of employment, whether paid in cash or in kind. It’s understandable that enforcement measures must serve as a deterrent, and not just return the situation to what it should have been. But even if he severity of detention might be debatable in this case, the core issue here is the article’s misleading characterization. Using the term "visa mix-up" not only downplays the deliberate actions taken by the individual but also appears intended to cast doubt as to whether the fault lies with the individual or with the US government.

ffsm8 2y ago
"the work" she was doing was domestic chores? Like "you can live for free in this room as long as you keep the house clean". It's not like she went there to work, she just did chores Frankly, you're the one that miss characterizing her.
- rahimnathwani 2y ago
  What is special about the nature of the work (domestic chores)? Would you see things differently if she were working as a barista or doing a bit of coding in return for accommodation? If so, why? When you say "It's not like she went there to work, she just did chores" you seem to imply that people come to the US because they want to work. They come for various reasons, and work is a thing that's necessary for most people, to achieve other ends. For this woman, working during her vacation was a means to fund her travels. She didn't come to the US with work as her primary purpose, but I'm assuming the work was integral to her plan because otherwise accommodation would be expensive.

eesmith 2y ago

"No one truly knows a nation until one has been inside its jails. A nation should not be judged by how it treats its highest citizens but its lowest ones." - Nelson Mandela

trilbyglens 2y ago
Well, we pretty spectacularly fail that test.
- eesmith 2y ago
  Yup. And have for a very long time. At least when I was a kid there was the idea that prisons should be used to rehabilitate. Now it seems like it's only for cruel punishment and profit extraction.

the_70x 2y ago

White privilege is over, welcome to third world treatment

trilbyglens 2y ago
This is really what's happening. The outrage comes from white folks finally seeing into the reality of how america has treated minority people since forever.