4 ms·

> Yup, always run extra everything Cables ain't free, duct capacity is finite and duct rental from the local incumbent is costly too... Please calculate the fi

> Yup, always run extra everything Cables ain't free, duct capacity is finite and duct rental from the local incumbent is costly too... Please calculate the financial optimum of pay now vs. pay later - taking into account growth, various forms of attrition, cost of capital, opportunity costs and appetite for risk. Or everyone would be running 1152 strands cables everywhere. But then I see that from a telco perspective and, now that I've read the article, it seems to be from a small-scale hosting perspective - entirely different economics.

dwattttt 2y ago
Or, take the money you would spend calculating that, and that's the amount you spend for your margin.
- liotier 2y ago
  Haha, I'll tell that to the outside plant capacity planning team ! But seriously, I'm telco-biased, and it seems that the article has a small scale hosting... Different worlds. At small scale, sure - the bigger cable is a rounding error.
terribleperson 2y ago
Duct capacity is finite, but fiber cables are tiny and they are very nearly free compared to the cost of having them run.
- liotier 2y ago
  Not quite tiny - a basic armored (rats !) 12 strands cable may be around 10-15 millimeters, whereas similarly specced cables in the 500 strands range might reach 20-30 mm. In crowded Paris downtown, it adds up fast. On the countryside, that is a lot more weight to hang on poles.
  - throwaway2037 2y ago
    > Paris downtown Where is downtown Paris? 1/2/3 arrondissement? I never heard the term used for Paris. Mostly, it is used to describe the Wall Street area of Manhattan (NYC) as the island is relatively north-south and Wall Street is on the southern end.
    - travisjungroth 2y ago
      It’s also come to mean the densest part of any city. Even the town I group up in would call the densest part “downtown”, even though the only buildings taller than two stories were city hall and the historic theater.
      - TeMPOraL 2y ago
        Today I learned! I always thought "downtown" and "uptown" were more like "south from X" and "north from X" where X is some reference point in context (e.g. "where I'm standing"). Turns out, it's more similar to "downwell" and "upwell", i.e. towards or away from some central point (gravity wells being spherical-ish and all).
        vikingerik 2y ago
        Uptown can mean anything out of: geographically north, upstream on a river, higher elevation, or higher income and wealth of the residents. It just so happens that for Manhattan which is the most famous uptown, all four of those indicators point in the same direction. In general I think an area would more likely be called an uptown if it met more of those criteria relative to some downtown. (And there would be correlation, wealthier residents would buy higher-elevation land.)
    - 0_____0 2y ago
      I notice that non US English-speaking tend to use the term CBD instead of downtown, my assumption is that it is because of the NYC thing you mention
ghaff 2y ago
And while some people preach hard-wired everything I’d probably increasingly not bother at home. . I’ll have to see how much networking and audio stuff I even do given a kitchen fire with s
- jaxn 2y ago
  Maybe in an apartment. In a house, you want wired backhaul on access points, and wired streaming devices.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    Why? Is this an actual problem? I have a bunch of wired connections (or at least had) but I'm not sure I ever saw a difference and I'm certainly not going to spend time or money retrofitting them for some Platonic ideal--ADDED, at least in recent years or outside of specific situations.
    - Symbiote 2y ago
      It's potentially a problem in a typical brick house in Europe. I'm sure it's less of a problem in houses with other materials.
    - Arn_Thor 2y ago
      The answer is brick and concrete. You’d be amazed how well a load bearing wall in a high rise will block a signal.
      - ghaff 2y ago
        Which are, of course, also difficult to retrofit with a lot of new wiring. Old plaster lath is something of an issue too but not nearly as much and is easier to retrofit--or just replace.
    - nobleach 2y ago
      For me it's the metal studs in my walls. WiFi reception is truly awful. Fortunately it was prewired with Cat5e. But that will need to be replaced some day.

dwattttt 2y ago

Or, take the money you would spend calculating that, and that's the amount you spend for your margin.

liotier 2y ago
Haha, I'll tell that to the outside plant capacity planning team ! But seriously, I'm telco-biased, and it seems that the article has a small scale hosting... Different worlds. At small scale, sure - the bigger cable is a rounding error.

terribleperson 2y ago

Duct capacity is finite, but fiber cables are tiny and they are very nearly free compared to the cost of having them run.

liotier 2y ago
Not quite tiny - a basic armored (rats !) 12 strands cable may be around 10-15 millimeters, whereas similarly specced cables in the 500 strands range might reach 20-30 mm. In crowded Paris downtown, it adds up fast. On the countryside, that is a lot more weight to hang on poles.
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  > Paris downtown Where is downtown Paris? 1/2/3 arrondissement? I never heard the term used for Paris. Mostly, it is used to describe the Wall Street area of Manhattan (NYC) as the island is relatively north-south and Wall Street is on the southern end.
  - travisjungroth 2y ago
    It’s also come to mean the densest part of any city. Even the town I group up in would call the densest part “downtown”, even though the only buildings taller than two stories were city hall and the historic theater.
    - TeMPOraL 2y ago
      Today I learned! I always thought "downtown" and "uptown" were more like "south from X" and "north from X" where X is some reference point in context (e.g. "where I'm standing"). Turns out, it's more similar to "downwell" and "upwell", i.e. towards or away from some central point (gravity wells being spherical-ish and all).
      - vikingerik 2y ago
        Uptown can mean anything out of: geographically north, upstream on a river, higher elevation, or higher income and wealth of the residents. It just so happens that for Manhattan which is the most famous uptown, all four of those indicators point in the same direction. In general I think an area would more likely be called an uptown if it met more of those criteria relative to some downtown. (And there would be correlation, wealthier residents would buy higher-elevation land.)
  - 0_____0 2y ago
    I notice that non US English-speaking tend to use the term CBD instead of downtown, my assumption is that it is because of the NYC thing you mention

ghaff 2y ago

And while some people preach hard-wired everything I’d probably increasingly not bother at home. . I’ll have to see how much networking and audio stuff I even do given a kitchen fire with s

jaxn 2y ago
Maybe in an apartment. In a house, you want wired backhaul on access points, and wired streaming devices.
- ghaff 2y ago
  Why? Is this an actual problem? I have a bunch of wired connections (or at least had) but I'm not sure I ever saw a difference and I'm certainly not going to spend time or money retrofitting them for some Platonic ideal--ADDED, at least in recent years or outside of specific situations.
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    It's potentially a problem in a typical brick house in Europe. I'm sure it's less of a problem in houses with other materials.
  - Arn_Thor 2y ago
    The answer is brick and concrete. You’d be amazed how well a load bearing wall in a high rise will block a signal.
    - ghaff 2y ago
      Which are, of course, also difficult to retrofit with a lot of new wiring. Old plaster lath is something of an issue too but not nearly as much and is easier to retrofit--or just replace.
  - nobleach 2y ago
    For me it's the metal studs in my walls. WiFi reception is truly awful. Fortunately it was prewired with Cat5e. But that will need to be replaced some day.