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This is the entire thesis of Jane Jacobs’ work: urban living works because of friction-by-design. Inadvertent interactions between people you see every day bui

by xattt 2y ago

This is the entire thesis of Jane Jacobs’ work: urban living works because of friction-by-design. Inadvertent interactions between people you see every day build a sense of community over time — the “sidewalk ballet”. I always wondered what she would have thought about her ideas in the context of COVID.

palijer 2y ago
I think we're a long way off from the communities when Jane Jacobs lived. An except that I frequently think about, I can't even fathom in a large city in the current era, and not because technology has solved the key problem. >Joe Cornacchia, who keeps the delicatessen, usually has a dozen or so keys at a time for handing out like this. He has a special drawer for them. >Now why do I, and many others, select Joe as a logical custodian for keys? Because we trust him, first, to be a respon sible custodian, but equally important because we know that he combines a feeling of good will with a feeling of no personal responsibility about our private affairs. Joe considers it no con cern of his whom we choose to permit in our places and why. Around on the other side of our block, people leave their keys at a Spanish grocery. On the other side of Joe's block, people leave them at the candy store. Down a block they leave them at the coffee shop, and a few hundred feet around the corner from that, in a barber shop. Around one corner from two fashionable blocks of town houses and apartments in the Upper East Side, people leave their keys in a butcher shop and a bookshop; around another corner they leave them in a cleaner's and a drug store. >In unfashionable East Harlem keys are left with at least one florist, in bakeries, in luncheonettes, in Spanish and Italian groceries.
- wetmore 2y ago
  This still happens in my experience, I've picked up keys from friends and Airbnb hosts via a local business in the past few years.
  - kortilla 2y ago
    But there is usually a code with some app and all of the social aspects have been removed. It’s not much different than being a higher scale realtor key box.
    - winkeltripel 2y ago
      Well, if a guest gives off a dangerous vibe, the clerk can make judgement call.
      - ghaff 2y ago
        Well, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't but the idea that a local store owner wouldn't give me if I were to give off a "dangerous vibe" would be somewhat concerning. But maybe I have ancestry etc. where I just don't give off that vibe. More generally, I guess I'm just pretty used to lodging where a delayed flight doesn't mean I can't get in.
        marcosdumay 2y ago
        > but the idea that a local store owner wouldn't give me if I were to give off a "dangerous vibe" would be somewhat concerning If the person had a history at denying the keys at random for no good reason, people wouldn't trust them with the keys anymore. Anyway, it's way more likely that they would call the home owner instead of just denying. People are mostly reasonable.
        Nullabillity 2y ago
        > People are mostly reasonable. People recently voted Trump into office.
      - red-iron-pine 2y ago
        I'm a paying customer, why tf should I care what the clerk thinks? I paid the money, give me the key. Plus at no point did I pay them any money -- they're just, essentially, key escrow. It's good marketing for them since being in and out of a pizza place means someone will likely buy a slice, but as a BnB customer IDGAF what they think outside of giving me that bloody key.
  - Suppafly 2y ago
    >This still happens in my experience, I've picked up keys from friends and Airbnb hosts via a local business in the past few years. Seems strange to me, I've never done anything of the sort and wouldn't consider it. The closest is maybe leaving things at school for another parent to pickup because they left them with my kid.
  - l72 2y ago
    Same. Stayed at an Airbnb in Copenhagen and we picked up and dropped off keys from the pizza shop across the street. And over the course of our 6 week stay, we definitely ate at that pizza shop a few times!
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- Foreignborn 2y ago
  San Francisco, up until covid this still happened for me too. there was a bodega like store in the mission me and other people used. where i live now differs so that phenomenon doesn’t exist here.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
ghaff 2y ago
In the context of a lot of discussions here, Jacobs also seemed to believe in community driven development. Yes, she helped stop some highway development that many people here would (mostly rightly) hate. But a lot of people here would also consider her a NIMBY--even a fairly strong one--for supporting the right of communities to drive their own development whatever outsiders might desire.
- BurningFrog 2y ago
  The hostility to outsiders is usually also part of the community spirit...
  - ghaff 2y ago
    I’m not sure it’s so much hostility to outsiders as such, as we like things mostly the way they are and we won’t appreciate if you come in and agitate for big change.

by xattt 2y ago

palijer 2y ago

I think we're a long way off from the communities when Jane Jacobs lived. An except that I frequently think about, I can't even fathom in a large city in the current era, and not because technology has solved the key problem. >Joe Cornacchia, who keeps the delicatessen, usually has a dozen or so keys at a time for handing out like this. He has a special drawer for them. >Now why do I, and many others, select Joe as a logical custodian for keys? Because we trust him, first, to be a respon sible custodian, but equally important because we know that he combines a feeling of good will with a feeling of no personal responsibility about our private affairs. Joe considers it no con cern of his whom we choose to permit in our places and why. Around on the other side of our block, people leave their keys at a Spanish grocery. On the other side of Joe's block, people leave them at the candy store. Down a block they leave them at the coffee shop, and a few hundred feet around the corner from that, in a barber shop. Around one corner from two fashionable blocks of town houses and apartments in the Upper East Side, people leave their keys in a butcher shop and a bookshop; around another corner they leave them in a cleaner's and a drug store. >In unfashionable East Harlem keys are left with at least one florist, in bakeries, in luncheonettes, in Spanish and Italian groceries.

wetmore 2y ago
This still happens in my experience, I've picked up keys from friends and Airbnb hosts via a local business in the past few years.
- kortilla 2y ago
  But there is usually a code with some app and all of the social aspects have been removed. It’s not much different than being a higher scale realtor key box.
  - winkeltripel 2y ago
    Well, if a guest gives off a dangerous vibe, the clerk can make judgement call.
    - ghaff 2y ago
      Well, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't but the idea that a local store owner wouldn't give me if I were to give off a "dangerous vibe" would be somewhat concerning. But maybe I have ancestry etc. where I just don't give off that vibe. More generally, I guess I'm just pretty used to lodging where a delayed flight doesn't mean I can't get in.
      - marcosdumay 2y ago
        > but the idea that a local store owner wouldn't give me if I were to give off a "dangerous vibe" would be somewhat concerning If the person had a history at denying the keys at random for no good reason, people wouldn't trust them with the keys anymore. Anyway, it's way more likely that they would call the home owner instead of just denying. People are mostly reasonable.
        Nullabillity 2y ago
        > People are mostly reasonable. People recently voted Trump into office.
    - red-iron-pine 2y ago
      I'm a paying customer, why tf should I care what the clerk thinks? I paid the money, give me the key. Plus at no point did I pay them any money -- they're just, essentially, key escrow. It's good marketing for them since being in and out of a pizza place means someone will likely buy a slice, but as a BnB customer IDGAF what they think outside of giving me that bloody key.
- Suppafly 2y ago
  >This still happens in my experience, I've picked up keys from friends and Airbnb hosts via a local business in the past few years. Seems strange to me, I've never done anything of the sort and wouldn't consider it. The closest is maybe leaving things at school for another parent to pickup because they left them with my kid.
- l72 2y ago
  Same. Stayed at an Airbnb in Copenhagen and we picked up and dropped off keys from the pizza shop across the street. And over the course of our 6 week stay, we definitely ate at that pizza shop a few times!
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
Foreignborn 2y ago
San Francisco, up until covid this still happened for me too. there was a bodega like store in the mission me and other people used. where i live now differs so that phenomenon doesn’t exist here.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

ghaff 2y ago

In the context of a lot of discussions here, Jacobs also seemed to believe in community driven development. Yes, she helped stop some highway development that many people here would (mostly rightly) hate. But a lot of people here would also consider her a NIMBY--even a fairly strong one--for supporting the right of communities to drive their own development whatever outsiders might desire.

BurningFrog 2y ago
The hostility to outsiders is usually also part of the community spirit...
- ghaff 2y ago
  I’m not sure it’s so much hostility to outsiders as such, as we like things mostly the way they are and we won’t appreciate if you come in and agitate for big change.