6 ms·

Yeah, we got a new house built 4 years ago and one of the biggest regrets is not enough ethernet outlets (running fibre in the house isn't practical yet) and po

Yeah, we got a new house built 4 years ago and one of the biggest regrets is not enough ethernet outlets (running fibre in the house isn't practical yet) and power outlets in various places. It is really hard to think of all the places you would want them ahead of time unfortunately and as each has a cost you don't want to incur it unnecessarily. But my biggest regrets were: - Only a single ethernet port in the basement. Then the kid wanted a gaming station and we moved where the TV was. I should have put like 4 down there. - No ethernet ports in the garage, I should have put in one for an AP. - 4 ceiling APs instead of just two in the main part of the house. I over-estimated how much coverage I would get from ceiling APs and thus I have some APs hidden under furniture to ensure 100% house coverage. - Lack of multiple circuits in the garage, even better a separate sub-panel with 6 outlets. I took up wood working and with a single circuit and 2 outlets was insufficient. That cost me $1200 for the sub-panel. - Multiple outlets on the back and side of the house - I would have done two at the front on each side and two at the back on side each and one on each side of the house. I have a single outlet at the front and back and that is just not sufficient for lights, decorations and patio devices.

jmacd 2y ago
Wow, we recently built a house and this reads just like my regret list! I think because there are less code specifications for the garage, builders just don't bother.
yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
> Only a single ethernet port in the basement. Then the kid wanted a gaming station and we moved where the TV was. I should have put like 4 down there. Is it so bad to put in a switch?
- bhouston 2y ago
  It does sort of suck because I have cabling running along the baseboards. Also I have 10G networking so the switches are costly and hot at least this generation.
  - LgWoodenBadger 2y ago
    How would multiple runs have helped you with that problem? Either they’re all in the same spot, and a switch would solve it, or they’re on all different walls and you’d still likely have to run cables to the things.
david422 2y ago
> Only a single ethernet port in the basement. Then the kid wanted a gaming station and we moved where the TV was. I should have put like 4 down there. Just drop a switch down there.
- bhouston 2y ago
  I have, but now I have cable running along the base boards. That isn't optimal. Also I have 10G networking, so the ethernet switches are hot and expensive.
  - zdp7 2y ago
    You don't need an expensive switch. Five port 2.5G + SFP+ with poe can be pretty affordable and shouldn't run very hot.
    - bhouston 2y ago
      That downgrades transfer speeds though to just 2.5G.
      - horsawlarway 2y ago
        Which is fine? It's getting capped to 3 at your modem anyways... And the difference here is reaching the "doesn't matter" phase. Like - 50GB at 3gbps is ~130 seconds, ~160 seconds at 2.5gbps, and ~400 seconds at 1gbps You're always waiting at least a couple minutes, and never more than 10 for that download. Personally - I have a couple 10gbps switches that run my backbone in my house (NAS, k8s cluster, HomeAssistant, etc) and I have a 2gbps symmetric wan, but all of the offices (my wife and I both work from home, plus the media room, plus the kid's playroom) all just run 1gbps switches. They're cheap, normal office work basically never saturates those speeds (even multiple conference calls with video is a-ok), and there's just not enough value in bumping up to 10gbps across the whole house compared to the equipment cost. The 10gbps switches live in the basement and just connect those zones.
        2y ago
ajsnigrutin 2y ago
That's why pretty much every office space/building over here has cable trunking/channels on the walls instead of fixed wiring, eg: https://www.elba.si/izdelki/parapetni-kanali/ https://www.elba.si/izdelki/parapetni-kanali/ https://www.obo.si/izdelki/izdelkiinstalacije-v-zgradbah/bistvene-znacilnosti-izdelkov/parapetni-kanal-rapid-45-2/ https://www.obo.si/izdelki/izdelkiinstalacije-v-zgradbah/bis... Need one more outlet? Remove the plastic cover, insert cable, insert outlet, cut the plastic cover to make space for outlet, and you're done.
- Symbiote 2y ago
  That would be fine in the garage, but few people would want this anywhere else in their home. There's a wood effect version, but I suspect it would make a home look like a 1980s office: https://homemaster.techinfus.com/en/kabel-kanaly-vidy-i-razmery.html https://homemaster.techinfus.com/en/kabel-kanaly-vidy-i-razm...
- mike50 2y ago
  In the us wiremold is the equivalent product.
nkrisc 2y ago
> Only a single ethernet port in the basement. Then the kid wanted a gaming station and we moved where the TV was. I should have put like 4 down there. https://store.ui.com/us/en/category/all-switching/products/usw-flex-mini https://store.ui.com/us/en/category/all-switching/products/u... Unless you meant with regards to routing the cables throughout the space, like now it’s on the opposite wall from the port. I’ve definitely shoved cables under baseboards, but you can also pull them off and the run the cable in the wall behind them. You don’t even need to patch the drywall then. You can also get baseboards (that look nice in a home) then double as cable runs.
- bhouston 2y ago
  > You can also get baseboards (that look nice in a home) then double as cable runs. Interesting. That would be great in the basement. I will look into it.
  - hobs 2y ago
    Dont forget Powerline adapters - if you have it all on one loop they are surprisingly effective if you have extra power sockets!
    - cruffle_duffle 2y ago
      If you go that route MOCA over your cable tv coax works very well too!
      - Carrok 2y ago
        I recently bought my first house, and there was only one coax outlet in the entire place, and zero ethernet. I wanted to move where the coax terminated, and after some searching around, found MOCA. Had never heard of it before, but a hundred bucks or so later, and it's a fantastic solution.
        xarope 2y ago
mjevans 2y ago
IMO a not-tiny house should have several sub-panels: Kitchen (enough to run the big stove + ~100A, but every outlet it's own 20A circuit), 'lab' / workshop (same idea), laundry room (lock-out breaker near / in room for connecting / disconnecting), etc. A family member who's doing better in life than I am purchased a house built within the last 5 years, and it didn't even _have_ Ethernet run anywhere. WHY!?! I can't fathom how it's possible anyone would find that a negative.
- nkurz 2y ago
  > A family member who's doing better in life than I am purchased a house built within the last 5 years, and it didn't even _have_ Ethernet run anywhere. WHY!?! I can't fathom how it's possible anyone would find that a negative. I'm less sure. Are there any 40 year old cables that you'd consider a positive in your house today? 20 year old cables? I wouldn't be too excited about having a house full of Coax, 10Base-T, and twisted pair. I feel like the much better solution is to run conduit in which you can replace the cable rather than permanently putting in twice as much of whatever is in favor today. The conduit is always better, right?
  - bhouston 2y ago
    Yeah, conduit makes sense. The future in homes - from this current vantage point - is likely all wireless via multiple APs around the house that have short range but very high bandwidth. Only us power users will have wired ethernet.
    - mjevans 2y ago
      Wireless will _never_ have the bandwidth nor wall-penetration people want. If it has the latter all the neighboring houses / apartment units will bleed through, and if it doesn't even the limited frequency domain won't be enough unless you're in the same room as an AP that doesn't penetrate walls... at which point everyone will want drops running to the rooms they stay in anyway. Yeah, conduits with pull strings and super-gentle curves (to safely satisfy minimum bends) are ideal... but at least run the lines there! Re: Copper / Fiber. Fiber's a PITA for all users, even powerusers probably don't want it outside of the rack / enclosed areas. Delicate cables / connections.
mmastrac 2y ago
If you have any way to pull cables between floors, try pulling DAC cables. They give you 10+G, require no splicing (hardware can be found cheap now), and generally just work as you'd expect. With a 10G backbone, you can get away with basement->main and main->upstairs in a three-floor house, with a small bridge on your main floor.
- bhouston 2y ago
  > If you have any way to pull cables between floors, try pulling DAC cables. Many of my devices take 10G ethernet, like MacMini and my MacBook Air docking station. Is there an easy way to convert from DAC to 10G Ethernet? The desktop has an SPF+ card so that will take DAC no problem. Unfortunately there is no way to pull an any cables easily. But someone else suggested replaceable baseboards that hide cable runs, I should look into that.
  - realityking 2y ago
    I don’t know any media converter that would work for that but you can get a Thunderbolt SFP+ ethernet adapter. For example: https://www.sonnettech.com/product/solo10g-sfp-tb3/overview.html https://www.sonnettech.com/product/solo10g-sfp-tb3/overview....
  - mmastrac 2y ago
    10G media converters are available for < $50 USD, but TBH I've never used one.
- Epa095 2y ago
  Why DAC cables over Cat6a or Cat7
  - graton 2y ago
    They are the lowest power way to connect SFP. And they are cheap. Though I'm not sure I would pull them as they tend to max out at around 6-7 meters. I use them to connect systems within the same rack/room.
lostlogin 2y ago
> running fibre in the house isn't practical yet I think it is. A pair of switches and a single run isn’t that expensive and it’s truly beautiful. But… I still wish I’d put in 2 cables and not one.
sponaugle 2y ago
"(running fibre in the house isn't practical yet)" What does that mean? I assume you are saying most builders don't offer fiber? Running fiber in a house is entirely practical and easy to do. Cheap as well.
- chgs 2y ago
  Might as well, but most end devices you’d want to connect would be copper. Most devices I physically connect are poe anyway. Sure my nas and desktop are fibre/10g, but my aps are all Poe copper, my laptop is copper unless I break out my dongle (although it’s rare ok not on wifi), my backup pihole is copper (I like having a second dns server in case the main vm on the nas fails)
SeaGully 2y ago
For anyone else reading personally ceiling APs can't be overstated. My father-in-law is crazy about internet, but I've realized he was crazy like a fox when we did our to-the-studs renovation. He treated APs like a fire alarm or a CO monitor: one per room. My brother-in-law thinks he's crazy, and obviously it only really works if it is practical to run the wire and you can afford the number, but for my relatively small house it is insane how little I think about my internet. It is one of those quality of life things I never would have realized with having someone come and do it for me. I guess the only thing is some of the ceilings get a little crowded with lights + fire alarm + CO alarm + HVAC in/out + AP, so for small rooms it can be a challenge to figure out where to put things. But in that case I mean ... you don't need one per room. My father-in-law is crazy like a fox ... but he's also a little crazy like a crazy person.
sponaugle 2y ago
These are great and common regrets in house wiring. I'm actually recording a video series on this exact topic right now. There are some things in electrical that are so easy and cheap to do but just get skipped over. Electricians are typically very very cheap (in a good for you the consumer way). However this tends to lead to under-building in a modern tech house.
cryptoegorophy 2y ago
Why 4 ethernet ports? You can just add switch later if that is the problem. I have this setup behind TV for Apple TV+TV

jmacd 2y ago

Wow, we recently built a house and this reads just like my regret list! I think because there are less code specifications for the garage, builders just don't bother.

yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago

> Only a single ethernet port in the basement. Then the kid wanted a gaming station and we moved where the TV was. I should have put like 4 down there. Is it so bad to put in a switch?

bhouston 2y ago
It does sort of suck because I have cabling running along the baseboards. Also I have 10G networking so the switches are costly and hot at least this generation.
- LgWoodenBadger 2y ago
  How would multiple runs have helped you with that problem? Either they’re all in the same spot, and a switch would solve it, or they’re on all different walls and you’d still likely have to run cables to the things.

david422 2y ago

> Only a single ethernet port in the basement. Then the kid wanted a gaming station and we moved where the TV was. I should have put like 4 down there. Just drop a switch down there.

bhouston 2y ago
I have, but now I have cable running along the base boards. That isn't optimal. Also I have 10G networking, so the ethernet switches are hot and expensive.
- zdp7 2y ago
  You don't need an expensive switch. Five port 2.5G + SFP+ with poe can be pretty affordable and shouldn't run very hot.
  - bhouston 2y ago
    That downgrades transfer speeds though to just 2.5G.
    - horsawlarway 2y ago
      Which is fine? It's getting capped to 3 at your modem anyways... And the difference here is reaching the "doesn't matter" phase. Like - 50GB at 3gbps is ~130 seconds, ~160 seconds at 2.5gbps, and ~400 seconds at 1gbps You're always waiting at least a couple minutes, and never more than 10 for that download. Personally - I have a couple 10gbps switches that run my backbone in my house (NAS, k8s cluster, HomeAssistant, etc) and I have a 2gbps symmetric wan, but all of the offices (my wife and I both work from home, plus the media room, plus the kid's playroom) all just run 1gbps switches. They're cheap, normal office work basically never saturates those speeds (even multiple conference calls with video is a-ok), and there's just not enough value in bumping up to 10gbps across the whole house compared to the equipment cost. The 10gbps switches live in the basement and just connect those zones.
      - 2y ago

ajsnigrutin 2y ago

That's why pretty much every office space/building over here has cable trunking/channels on the walls instead of fixed wiring, eg: https://www.elba.si/izdelki/parapetni-kanali/ https://www.elba.si/izdelki/parapetni-kanali/ https://www.obo.si/izdelki/izdelkiinstalacije-v-zgradbah/bistvene-znacilnosti-izdelkov/parapetni-kanal-rapid-45-2/ https://www.obo.si/izdelki/izdelkiinstalacije-v-zgradbah/bis... Need one more outlet? Remove the plastic cover, insert cable, insert outlet, cut the plastic cover to make space for outlet, and you're done.

Symbiote 2y ago
That would be fine in the garage, but few people would want this anywhere else in their home. There's a wood effect version, but I suspect it would make a home look like a 1980s office: https://homemaster.techinfus.com/en/kabel-kanaly-vidy-i-razmery.html https://homemaster.techinfus.com/en/kabel-kanaly-vidy-i-razm...
mike50 2y ago
In the us wiremold is the equivalent product.

nkrisc 2y ago

> Only a single ethernet port in the basement. Then the kid wanted a gaming station and we moved where the TV was. I should have put like 4 down there. https://store.ui.com/us/en/category/all-switching/products/usw-flex-mini https://store.ui.com/us/en/category/all-switching/products/u... Unless you meant with regards to routing the cables throughout the space, like now it’s on the opposite wall from the port. I’ve definitely shoved cables under baseboards, but you can also pull them off and the run the cable in the wall behind them. You don’t even need to patch the drywall then. You can also get baseboards (that look nice in a home) then double as cable runs.

bhouston 2y ago
> You can also get baseboards (that look nice in a home) then double as cable runs. Interesting. That would be great in the basement. I will look into it.
- hobs 2y ago
  Dont forget Powerline adapters - if you have it all on one loop they are surprisingly effective if you have extra power sockets!
  - cruffle_duffle 2y ago
    If you go that route MOCA over your cable tv coax works very well too!
    - Carrok 2y ago
      I recently bought my first house, and there was only one coax outlet in the entire place, and zero ethernet. I wanted to move where the coax terminated, and after some searching around, found MOCA. Had never heard of it before, but a hundred bucks or so later, and it's a fantastic solution.
      - xarope 2y ago

mjevans 2y ago

IMO a not-tiny house should have several sub-panels: Kitchen (enough to run the big stove + ~100A, but every outlet it's own 20A circuit), 'lab' / workshop (same idea), laundry room (lock-out breaker near / in room for connecting / disconnecting), etc. A family member who's doing better in life than I am purchased a house built within the last 5 years, and it didn't even _have_ Ethernet run anywhere. WHY!?! I can't fathom how it's possible anyone would find that a negative.

nkurz 2y ago
> A family member who's doing better in life than I am purchased a house built within the last 5 years, and it didn't even _have_ Ethernet run anywhere. WHY!?! I can't fathom how it's possible anyone would find that a negative. I'm less sure. Are there any 40 year old cables that you'd consider a positive in your house today? 20 year old cables? I wouldn't be too excited about having a house full of Coax, 10Base-T, and twisted pair. I feel like the much better solution is to run conduit in which you can replace the cable rather than permanently putting in twice as much of whatever is in favor today. The conduit is always better, right?
- bhouston 2y ago
  Yeah, conduit makes sense. The future in homes - from this current vantage point - is likely all wireless via multiple APs around the house that have short range but very high bandwidth. Only us power users will have wired ethernet.
  - mjevans 2y ago
    Wireless will _never_ have the bandwidth nor wall-penetration people want. If it has the latter all the neighboring houses / apartment units will bleed through, and if it doesn't even the limited frequency domain won't be enough unless you're in the same room as an AP that doesn't penetrate walls... at which point everyone will want drops running to the rooms they stay in anyway. Yeah, conduits with pull strings and super-gentle curves (to safely satisfy minimum bends) are ideal... but at least run the lines there! Re: Copper / Fiber. Fiber's a PITA for all users, even powerusers probably don't want it outside of the rack / enclosed areas. Delicate cables / connections.

mmastrac 2y ago

If you have any way to pull cables between floors, try pulling DAC cables. They give you 10+G, require no splicing (hardware can be found cheap now), and generally just work as you'd expect. With a 10G backbone, you can get away with basement->main and main->upstairs in a three-floor house, with a small bridge on your main floor.

bhouston 2y ago
> If you have any way to pull cables between floors, try pulling DAC cables. Many of my devices take 10G ethernet, like MacMini and my MacBook Air docking station. Is there an easy way to convert from DAC to 10G Ethernet? The desktop has an SPF+ card so that will take DAC no problem. Unfortunately there is no way to pull an any cables easily. But someone else suggested replaceable baseboards that hide cable runs, I should look into that.
- realityking 2y ago
  I don’t know any media converter that would work for that but you can get a Thunderbolt SFP+ ethernet adapter. For example: https://www.sonnettech.com/product/solo10g-sfp-tb3/overview.html https://www.sonnettech.com/product/solo10g-sfp-tb3/overview....
- mmastrac 2y ago
  10G media converters are available for < $50 USD, but TBH I've never used one.
Epa095 2y ago
Why DAC cables over Cat6a or Cat7
- graton 2y ago
  They are the lowest power way to connect SFP. And they are cheap. Though I'm not sure I would pull them as they tend to max out at around 6-7 meters. I use them to connect systems within the same rack/room.

lostlogin 2y ago

> running fibre in the house isn't practical yet I think it is. A pair of switches and a single run isn’t that expensive and it’s truly beautiful. But… I still wish I’d put in 2 cables and not one.

sponaugle 2y ago

"(running fibre in the house isn't practical yet)" What does that mean? I assume you are saying most builders don't offer fiber? Running fiber in a house is entirely practical and easy to do. Cheap as well.

chgs 2y ago
Might as well, but most end devices you’d want to connect would be copper. Most devices I physically connect are poe anyway. Sure my nas and desktop are fibre/10g, but my aps are all Poe copper, my laptop is copper unless I break out my dongle (although it’s rare ok not on wifi), my backup pihole is copper (I like having a second dns server in case the main vm on the nas fails)

SeaGully 2y ago

For anyone else reading personally ceiling APs can't be overstated. My father-in-law is crazy about internet, but I've realized he was crazy like a fox when we did our to-the-studs renovation. He treated APs like a fire alarm or a CO monitor: one per room. My brother-in-law thinks he's crazy, and obviously it only really works if it is practical to run the wire and you can afford the number, but for my relatively small house it is insane how little I think about my internet. It is one of those quality of life things I never would have realized with having someone come and do it for me. I guess the only thing is some of the ceilings get a little crowded with lights + fire alarm + CO alarm + HVAC in/out + AP, so for small rooms it can be a challenge to figure out where to put things. But in that case I mean ... you don't need one per room. My father-in-law is crazy like a fox ... but he's also a little crazy like a crazy person.

sponaugle 2y ago

These are great and common regrets in house wiring. I'm actually recording a video series on this exact topic right now. There are some things in electrical that are so easy and cheap to do but just get skipped over. Electricians are typically very very cheap (in a good for you the consumer way). However this tends to lead to under-building in a modern tech house.

cryptoegorophy 2y ago

Why 4 ethernet ports? You can just add switch later if that is the problem. I have this setup behind TV for Apple TV+TV