4 ms·

The lossless audio isn't the real benefit of this, it's the low latency. Current latency is ~100ms over bluetooth and is considered unacceptable for live playba

The lossless audio isn't the real benefit of this, it's the low latency. Current latency is ~100ms over bluetooth and is considered unacceptable for live playback of things (DJ'ing, music, etc). People used this on the Lightning version of the Airpods Max apparently, and it was missing until now on the USB-C version.

lxgr 2y ago
> The lossless audio isn't the real benefit of this, it's the low latency And we could have had that on all AirPods, for several years now, if Apple were to finally implement LC3 and Bluetooth LE Audio. Other than enabling much lower latency for unicast, LE Audio even supports broadcast use cases (think gym TV audio, public announcements, hearing aid audio in cinemas etc) and much more. I really don't understand why that's taking so long; this type of thing seems exactly like something Apple would usually excel at. (Maybe it's too open a standard, and they can't figure out a way to make gyms and cinemas pay for broadcasting to AirPods?)
- Kirby64 2y ago
  > And we could have had that on all AirPods, for several years now, if Apple were to finally implement LC3 and Bluetooth LE Audio. LC3 still has 50ms or so latency from what I’ve seen. LC3+ is lower, but 20ms is still something. Wired you can be single digit ms easily.
  - jampekka 2y ago
    20 ms on top of other latencies (buffers) is not good for e.g. live monitoring.
- pySSK 2y ago
  LE Audio is still too slow and low quality. The next step will likely be UWB audio.
- conradev 2y ago
  Yes! I have a pair of "on-ear speakers" and they support the broadcast API: https://nwm.global/products/one https://nwm.global/products/one but I have not found a single place in the US that uses it
  - vosper 2y ago
    Interesting looking headphones - I'd be interested to read your review of them
- dcrazy 2y ago
  Low latency audio for AirPods is already enabled when Game Mode is active: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ios-18s-new-game-mode-makes-iphones-faster-and-more-responsive.2429096/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ios-18s-new-game-mode-m...
nukem222 2y ago
It's hard to imagine a wireless technology that can improve on the experience of debugging a wire. You can always adjust the length of the wire or splice in a new one. I don't understand why the industry forced a move to wireless before the technology was up to it. The only company that's figured this out is Apple and they refuse to give up this market advantage. Until device management improves i'll stick with wired.
- mingus88 2y ago
  Wired is absolutely superior but the fact is most people don’t care. There is an entire generation of people that grew up ripping audio from YouTube and could not care less about lossless or latency issues with wired headphones. The industry realized this and honestly for most people a water resistant phone is worth losing the 1/8” jack and they win with fewer components and thinner phones The Apple dongle actually measures very well. I’m using one right now for my wired headphones. As someone who has spent too much money on headphones and accessories I don’t miss OTG cables and external DAC/Amps and feel the OEM Apple equipment is great for $10
  - nukem222 2y ago
    > The industry realized this and honestly for most people a water resistant phone is worth losing the 1/8” jack and they win with fewer components and thinner phones This would make sense if people didn't turn around and spend more than is saved on wireless headphones. I don't understand what people see in airpods (they work sufficiently but they're bleached and molded plastic; vomit, way too expensive for any possible use-case), but they're enormously successful and more than validated the removal of the jack. By like multiple orders of magnitude. Anyway, I've definitely had waterproof phones with a headphone jack. I'm guessing they removed it just to save on space. I wish I gave a shit about the shape of the phone, but the primary difference is I view my phone as more of a toy than a tool.
    - coldtea 2y ago
      >I don't understand what people see in airpods (they work sufficiently but they're bleached and molded plastic; vomit, way too expensive for any possible use-case) "They work sufficiently" is already a high bar given experiences people had with earlier wireless headphones. They were also the very first reliable detached (split ear) headphones. And they added excellent ANC (at least in the Pro version). As for being "bleached and molded plastic" what else would they be? Wood? Metal and genuine leather?
jampekka 2y ago
Leaves me wondering how much "ultra-low" is in milliseconds. Is it essentially a USB audio device?
- Kirby64 2y ago
  Almost certainly that's what this is. It's a Aux/line in -> USB out cable, as far as I can tell.

lxgr 2y ago

> The lossless audio isn't the real benefit of this, it's the low latency And we could have had that on all AirPods, for several years now, if Apple were to finally implement LC3 and Bluetooth LE Audio. Other than enabling much lower latency for unicast, LE Audio even supports broadcast use cases (think gym TV audio, public announcements, hearing aid audio in cinemas etc) and much more. I really don't understand why that's taking so long; this type of thing seems exactly like something Apple would usually excel at. (Maybe it's too open a standard, and they can't figure out a way to make gyms and cinemas pay for broadcasting to AirPods?)

Kirby64 2y ago
> And we could have had that on all AirPods, for several years now, if Apple were to finally implement LC3 and Bluetooth LE Audio. LC3 still has 50ms or so latency from what I’ve seen. LC3+ is lower, but 20ms is still something. Wired you can be single digit ms easily.
- jampekka 2y ago
  20 ms on top of other latencies (buffers) is not good for e.g. live monitoring.
pySSK 2y ago
LE Audio is still too slow and low quality. The next step will likely be UWB audio.
conradev 2y ago
Yes! I have a pair of "on-ear speakers" and they support the broadcast API: https://nwm.global/products/one https://nwm.global/products/one but I have not found a single place in the US that uses it
- vosper 2y ago
  Interesting looking headphones - I'd be interested to read your review of them
dcrazy 2y ago
Low latency audio for AirPods is already enabled when Game Mode is active: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ios-18s-new-game-mode-makes-iphones-faster-and-more-responsive.2429096/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ios-18s-new-game-mode-m...

nukem222 2y ago

It's hard to imagine a wireless technology that can improve on the experience of debugging a wire. You can always adjust the length of the wire or splice in a new one. I don't understand why the industry forced a move to wireless before the technology was up to it. The only company that's figured this out is Apple and they refuse to give up this market advantage. Until device management improves i'll stick with wired.

mingus88 2y ago
Wired is absolutely superior but the fact is most people don’t care. There is an entire generation of people that grew up ripping audio from YouTube and could not care less about lossless or latency issues with wired headphones. The industry realized this and honestly for most people a water resistant phone is worth losing the 1/8” jack and they win with fewer components and thinner phones The Apple dongle actually measures very well. I’m using one right now for my wired headphones. As someone who has spent too much money on headphones and accessories I don’t miss OTG cables and external DAC/Amps and feel the OEM Apple equipment is great for $10
- nukem222 2y ago
  > The industry realized this and honestly for most people a water resistant phone is worth losing the 1/8” jack and they win with fewer components and thinner phones This would make sense if people didn't turn around and spend more than is saved on wireless headphones. I don't understand what people see in airpods (they work sufficiently but they're bleached and molded plastic; vomit, way too expensive for any possible use-case), but they're enormously successful and more than validated the removal of the jack. By like multiple orders of magnitude. Anyway, I've definitely had waterproof phones with a headphone jack. I'm guessing they removed it just to save on space. I wish I gave a shit about the shape of the phone, but the primary difference is I view my phone as more of a toy than a tool.
  - coldtea 2y ago
    >I don't understand what people see in airpods (they work sufficiently but they're bleached and molded plastic; vomit, way too expensive for any possible use-case) "They work sufficiently" is already a high bar given experiences people had with earlier wireless headphones. They were also the very first reliable detached (split ear) headphones. And they added excellent ANC (at least in the Pro version). As for being "bleached and molded plastic" what else would they be? Wood? Metal and genuine leather?

jampekka 2y ago

Leaves me wondering how much "ultra-low" is in milliseconds. Is it essentially a USB audio device?

Kirby64 2y ago
Almost certainly that's what this is. It's a Aux/line in -> USB out cable, as far as I can tell.