9 ms·

>Is it though; what does the term mean; are we talking to our computers, not reading anything and just judging the non-coder endresult? Or are you just using it

>Is it though; what does the term mean; are we talking to our computers, not reading anything and just judging the non-coder endresult? Or are you just using it to help coding. Vibe coding would be the former and while it sometimes works, it doesn't in many cases, including LoB tools if the backoffice is large and complex enough. Unless you have some interesting tooling to help out, in which case it is possible, but that's not really vibe coding at the moment. I spent 10 years of my life as an FE with a total obsession for the field, and took huge pride in my hand tuned HTML/CSS interfaces and well architected JS. I was "the UI guy" that anyone would come to with questions, as it was my expertise and what I loved to do all day. Now I'll never write a line of that stuff ever again as long as I live. I do not write code anymore. Everything goes through an agent. Occasionally I will flip a config value here or there, or clean up some leftover logs or whatever, but I don't type code at all anymore. My job is now to guide the agent and review its' PRs. Yet, I now easily have the productivity of an entire team from a few years ago. You can keep your head in the sand over this stuff for a little while longer maybe, but you will be completely obsolete if you don't adapt soon.

anonzzzies 2y ago
I am aware, I just don't see this. I too write a lot of code like this, but the LLMs cannot figure out many things. If you are on that track, it will sometimes just loop forever. But sure, most humans are pretty bad too so many fail at the same things the llms do and then the llms are a lot cheaper.
- whatamidoingyo 2y ago
  Most of the time, yes. But there are certain times where I prompt an AI to build X, and it delivers a seriously neat project. It's not all of the time, though. It has only happened like twice where I saw the full power of LLMs. I don't understand it. It's like there's a switch to dumb these things down, but if you catch them at the right time, they will blow your mind. But yes, most times, they are horrible. Or maybe I'm just crazy, i dunno.
- guappa 2y ago
  I think he writes HTML pages and some JS occasionally.
guappa 2y ago
Yeah not every developer does html templates for wordpress. Of course if your job is extremely simple and generic, AI can kinda figure it out.
- ramesh31 2y ago
  >"Yeah not every developer does html templates for wordpress. Of course if your job is extremely simple and generic, AI can kinda figure it out." Keep telling yourself this. It's only hurting you. I think anyone who isn't working heavily with agentic systems right now has absolutely no clue about the revolutionary things that have happened in the last six months or so. Our industry is going to be in a completely different universe this time next year.
  - anonzzzies 2y ago
    ... next year Maybe... Why are you so sure? It's incredible what these models do but now it's all incremental and it's pretty clear LLMs are as bad at complexity as humans. If a system is of a realistic size of a business system, the llm will fuck up things mostly all the time unless you are a good coder with patience. It saves a lot of time, but it saves a lot of time of stuff that is 'just typing'; that is more than many programmers in this world can claim, but that's really another case. You are not doing anything that requires anything more than hello world context, because LLMs now really break down there.
  - guappa 2y ago
    > Keep telling yourself this. It's only hurting you. I don't tell myself this. I just read your comment. You're welcome to be hired in my team, we're hiring. Then you can sit there and ask claude or copilot and be fired when your trial period ends.
    - ramesh31 2y ago
      >You're welcome to be hired in my team, we're hiring. Then you can sit there and ask claude or copilot and be fired when your trial period ends. I see this attitude a lot. As if "uses AI" === "can't program". Keep swinging that hammer, John Henry.
zmgsabst 2y ago
My experience is that around 200-300 lines, the LLM is no longer able to understand the context of its own work. At that point, it also usually contains a significant mistake. And around that scale, you’ll get much better code if you refactor it yourself and clean up its logic (which tends to be verbose, at best). Someday, it will be better; today, none of them (Grok, ChatGPT, Claude) are good enough for what you describe.
- ramesh31 2y ago
  >Someday, it will be better; today, none of them (Grok, ChatGPT, Claude) are good enough for what you describe. You're living in 2023. Try Cline with Sonnet 3.7.
  - stickfigure 2y ago
    How big is your project (LOC)? How big are your individual source files? What language(s)?
confooseddd 2y ago
Frontend is a low bar for anyone and is the exact job which will be wiped out by AI. You are trapped in your own skillset prison that you don't understand what more complex engineering looks like.

anonzzzies 2y ago

I am aware, I just don't see this. I too write a lot of code like this, but the LLMs cannot figure out many things. If you are on that track, it will sometimes just loop forever. But sure, most humans are pretty bad too so many fail at the same things the llms do and then the llms are a lot cheaper.

whatamidoingyo 2y ago
Most of the time, yes. But there are certain times where I prompt an AI to build X, and it delivers a seriously neat project. It's not all of the time, though. It has only happened like twice where I saw the full power of LLMs. I don't understand it. It's like there's a switch to dumb these things down, but if you catch them at the right time, they will blow your mind. But yes, most times, they are horrible. Or maybe I'm just crazy, i dunno.
guappa 2y ago
I think he writes HTML pages and some JS occasionally.

guappa 2y ago

Yeah not every developer does html templates for wordpress. Of course if your job is extremely simple and generic, AI can kinda figure it out.

ramesh31 2y ago
>"Yeah not every developer does html templates for wordpress. Of course if your job is extremely simple and generic, AI can kinda figure it out." Keep telling yourself this. It's only hurting you. I think anyone who isn't working heavily with agentic systems right now has absolutely no clue about the revolutionary things that have happened in the last six months or so. Our industry is going to be in a completely different universe this time next year.
- anonzzzies 2y ago
  ... next year Maybe... Why are you so sure? It's incredible what these models do but now it's all incremental and it's pretty clear LLMs are as bad at complexity as humans. If a system is of a realistic size of a business system, the llm will fuck up things mostly all the time unless you are a good coder with patience. It saves a lot of time, but it saves a lot of time of stuff that is 'just typing'; that is more than many programmers in this world can claim, but that's really another case. You are not doing anything that requires anything more than hello world context, because LLMs now really break down there.
- guappa 2y ago
  > Keep telling yourself this. It's only hurting you. I don't tell myself this. I just read your comment. You're welcome to be hired in my team, we're hiring. Then you can sit there and ask claude or copilot and be fired when your trial period ends.
  - ramesh31 2y ago
    >You're welcome to be hired in my team, we're hiring. Then you can sit there and ask claude or copilot and be fired when your trial period ends. I see this attitude a lot. As if "uses AI" === "can't program". Keep swinging that hammer, John Henry.

zmgsabst 2y ago

My experience is that around 200-300 lines, the LLM is no longer able to understand the context of its own work. At that point, it also usually contains a significant mistake. And around that scale, you’ll get much better code if you refactor it yourself and clean up its logic (which tends to be verbose, at best). Someday, it will be better; today, none of them (Grok, ChatGPT, Claude) are good enough for what you describe.

ramesh31 2y ago
>Someday, it will be better; today, none of them (Grok, ChatGPT, Claude) are good enough for what you describe. You're living in 2023. Try Cline with Sonnet 3.7.
- stickfigure 2y ago
  How big is your project (LOC)? How big are your individual source files? What language(s)?

confooseddd 2y ago

Frontend is a low bar for anyone and is the exact job which will be wiped out by AI. You are trapped in your own skillset prison that you don't understand what more complex engineering looks like.