2 ms·

It's really just "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" all over again. I grew up on a farm, and that career absolutely will suck the life

by bigstrat2003 2y ago

It's really just "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" all over again. I grew up on a farm, and that career absolutely will suck the life out of you as well, just in different ways. I wouldn't ever choose to give up my tech career for that, because even though I know it has very real downsides I know the downsides of doing physical labor all day to get by are worse.

colechristensen 2y ago
But "retiring" to do leisurely amounts of farming is quite different than making it your career. It has always been a consideration for me.
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  Sure, but anything is more fun as a retiree hobby. That goes for programming as well as farming - if you can work (or not) at your own pace on the projects you think are interesting, that doesn't really suck the life out of you.
Guthur 2y ago
Wait until the overproduction of code from AI and see how you feel then. Every industry that has suffered from over production ends up cheapening and removing significant elements of artisanal beauty. If the AI hype is to be believed we are in the cusp of that for software engineering and just about any other knowledge work for that matter. Fields -> factory -> office -> ?
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  First, I don't believe the AI hype and I would advise you to not believe it either. People are notoriously bad at predicting the future. When I was in high school everyone said that programming was a dead career because it would all be outsourced to India, and that you should pursue a career as a PC repairman because it couldn't be outsourced. Needless to say, those predictions aged like milk. And even right now, AI isn't nearly as capable as the hype club makes it out to be. All that we can do is remain on our toes and be adaptive to change, but that's always been the case. Anyone who figures they will retire from this business doing the same exact job they started with has always been in for a rude awakening. Second, even if my job gets destroyed by changing tech that doesn't make farming an attractive option. It's dangerous, it wears your body down super hard, and the pay is garbage (which isn't very just tbh, but economics rarely are). I don't know what I'll do if my career goes up in a poof of smoke next year, but farming will be very low on the list no matter what I do.
  - Guthur 2y ago
    Even without complete replacement over production is a real concern. Over production doesn't necessarily mean better but it did mean your hand crafted artisanal code need to compete against the shovelware of AI generation. Given the predominance of short-termism and "productivity" metrics this may push you out anyway.
  - nyarlathotep_ 2y ago
    > When I was in high school everyone said that programming was a dead career because it would all be outsourced to India I literally didn't start a software career until nearly 30 because I heard this growing up. I'm growing very weary of all of these world-ending proclamations.
- labster 2y ago
  Fields -> manufactory -> factory -> office -> WFH -> fields As AI takes over creative work, we won’t need humans to sit at a desk, so they can be employed in subsistence farming while AI VCs make record profits.
aaronbaugher 2y ago
I grew up on a farm too, and now make a living programming while raising some chickens and pigs on the side and helping out on my parents' farm. I wouldn't say it will suck the life out of you. I suppose that depends on your personality. But I'd agree that there's more physical labor involved, even today with modern machines, than most people fantasizing about the idea probably realize. But even knowing how hard the work can be, there are days when I step away from the keyboard at 5pm and head out to shovel manure or harvest crops for a few hours with a lighter mood than I had all day, because there's something "real" about it that's refreshing after a day of working with the unreal. So I get why people dream about it. I'd just warn them to spend a week or two's vacation as an "intern" on a farm to see what it's like before quitting the keyboard job and buying 40 acres.
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  I meant it'll suck the life out of you in a more literal sense. My dad is a good example: he had both hips replaced by the time he was in his 40s, and has since (now in his 60s) had to have one of his artificial hips replaced. He has chronic arthritis worse than most people his age, as well. That's just a hazard of the job - even if you don't get injured by the big powerful machines (or heavy animals, etc), the sheer wear and tear you put on your body is far greater than what those of us with a desk job will. Metaphorically, farming can be far less life-sucking. There is something refreshing about just getting stuff done without any of the corporate BS to navigate. I just think that a lot of people in the tech industry aren't seeing the downsides, and only see the ways in which it's better than their career.
  - aaronbaugher 2y ago
    That's fair. I look at my fellow office workers and see a lot of obesity and back problems caused by too much sitting, but those are optional in a way that my dad's physical wear and tear from farming weren't. I definitely wouldn't tell a tech guy with no farming experience to just jump into it. Get a few chickens or something, and see what it's like to depend on you for food and water every day, whether it's 100 degrees or a blizzard that day. Or plant a 10x10 garden in your backyard and see what it's like to pull weeds in July heat. And don't expect to make money (or even break even) at it. Farming today only makes money if you go large-scale, which isn't what anyone dreams about, or if you find a niche and are really good at marketing something like artisan cheese. Even people who know what they're doing struggle to make that work.
swatcoder 2y ago
A career and a lifestyle are not the same thing. For many, the "homesteading" labor is an fulfilling and concrete complement to lucrative but abstract desk work, not a replacement. It takes the place of idle hobbies like consuming more media on screens, lifting abitrary weights or running in place on a treadmill, etc It's natural to assume we'd be pretty deeply wired to productively tend to our own lives and our own well-being in very concrete way, and many people who intentionally take up neglected homesteading tasks at their own pace and convenience often find it ameliorates many of the odd feelings of depression, anxiety, restlessness, etc that hung over them previously. We probably shouldn't be doing anything in particular all day, but doing concrete productive things in a world where so many things are abstract and alienating can provide great balance.

colechristensen 2y ago

But "retiring" to do leisurely amounts of farming is quite different than making it your career. It has always been a consideration for me.

bigstrat2003 2y ago
Sure, but anything is more fun as a retiree hobby. That goes for programming as well as farming - if you can work (or not) at your own pace on the projects you think are interesting, that doesn't really suck the life out of you.

Guthur 2y ago

Wait until the overproduction of code from AI and see how you feel then. Every industry that has suffered from over production ends up cheapening and removing significant elements of artisanal beauty. If the AI hype is to be believed we are in the cusp of that for software engineering and just about any other knowledge work for that matter. Fields -> factory -> office -> ?

bigstrat2003 2y ago
First, I don't believe the AI hype and I would advise you to not believe it either. People are notoriously bad at predicting the future. When I was in high school everyone said that programming was a dead career because it would all be outsourced to India, and that you should pursue a career as a PC repairman because it couldn't be outsourced. Needless to say, those predictions aged like milk. And even right now, AI isn't nearly as capable as the hype club makes it out to be. All that we can do is remain on our toes and be adaptive to change, but that's always been the case. Anyone who figures they will retire from this business doing the same exact job they started with has always been in for a rude awakening. Second, even if my job gets destroyed by changing tech that doesn't make farming an attractive option. It's dangerous, it wears your body down super hard, and the pay is garbage (which isn't very just tbh, but economics rarely are). I don't know what I'll do if my career goes up in a poof of smoke next year, but farming will be very low on the list no matter what I do.
- Guthur 2y ago
  Even without complete replacement over production is a real concern. Over production doesn't necessarily mean better but it did mean your hand crafted artisanal code need to compete against the shovelware of AI generation. Given the predominance of short-termism and "productivity" metrics this may push you out anyway.
- nyarlathotep_ 2y ago
  > When I was in high school everyone said that programming was a dead career because it would all be outsourced to India I literally didn't start a software career until nearly 30 because I heard this growing up. I'm growing very weary of all of these world-ending proclamations.
labster 2y ago
Fields -> manufactory -> factory -> office -> WFH -> fields As AI takes over creative work, we won’t need humans to sit at a desk, so they can be employed in subsistence farming while AI VCs make record profits.

aaronbaugher 2y ago

I grew up on a farm too, and now make a living programming while raising some chickens and pigs on the side and helping out on my parents' farm. I wouldn't say it will suck the life out of you. I suppose that depends on your personality. But I'd agree that there's more physical labor involved, even today with modern machines, than most people fantasizing about the idea probably realize. But even knowing how hard the work can be, there are days when I step away from the keyboard at 5pm and head out to shovel manure or harvest crops for a few hours with a lighter mood than I had all day, because there's something "real" about it that's refreshing after a day of working with the unreal. So I get why people dream about it. I'd just warn them to spend a week or two's vacation as an "intern" on a farm to see what it's like before quitting the keyboard job and buying 40 acres.

bigstrat2003 2y ago
I meant it'll suck the life out of you in a more literal sense. My dad is a good example: he had both hips replaced by the time he was in his 40s, and has since (now in his 60s) had to have one of his artificial hips replaced. He has chronic arthritis worse than most people his age, as well. That's just a hazard of the job - even if you don't get injured by the big powerful machines (or heavy animals, etc), the sheer wear and tear you put on your body is far greater than what those of us with a desk job will. Metaphorically, farming can be far less life-sucking. There is something refreshing about just getting stuff done without any of the corporate BS to navigate. I just think that a lot of people in the tech industry aren't seeing the downsides, and only see the ways in which it's better than their career.
- aaronbaugher 2y ago
  That's fair. I look at my fellow office workers and see a lot of obesity and back problems caused by too much sitting, but those are optional in a way that my dad's physical wear and tear from farming weren't. I definitely wouldn't tell a tech guy with no farming experience to just jump into it. Get a few chickens or something, and see what it's like to depend on you for food and water every day, whether it's 100 degrees or a blizzard that day. Or plant a 10x10 garden in your backyard and see what it's like to pull weeds in July heat. And don't expect to make money (or even break even) at it. Farming today only makes money if you go large-scale, which isn't what anyone dreams about, or if you find a niche and are really good at marketing something like artisan cheese. Even people who know what they're doing struggle to make that work.

swatcoder 2y ago

A career and a lifestyle are not the same thing. For many, the "homesteading" labor is an fulfilling and concrete complement to lucrative but abstract desk work, not a replacement. It takes the place of idle hobbies like consuming more media on screens, lifting abitrary weights or running in place on a treadmill, etc It's natural to assume we'd be pretty deeply wired to productively tend to our own lives and our own well-being in very concrete way, and many people who intentionally take up neglected homesteading tasks at their own pace and convenience often find it ameliorates many of the odd feelings of depression, anxiety, restlessness, etc that hung over them previously. We probably shouldn't be doing anything in particular all day, but doing concrete productive things in a world where so many things are abstract and alienating can provide great balance.