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> The Internet Archive is an American non-profit organization Would be prudent to speed up development of "mirrors" in other jurisdictions to protect against r

> The Internet Archive is an American non-profit organization Would be prudent to speed up development of "mirrors" in other jurisdictions to protect against rewriting of history. I imagine that's what autocrats will do in the end.

skyyler 2y ago
There's one in Alexandria, I believe. I agree that there should be more.
- outside1234 2y ago
  Alexandria Egypt? Or is this a joke comment?
  - yawndex 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria
    - outside1234 2y ago
      Yes, so assuming this was a historical reference, and that some sort of digital equivalent has not been formed there. :)
      - jazzyjackson 2y ago
        Bibliotheca Alexandria installed a mirror of the Internet Archive in 2007, it's unclear from a brief googling if the relationship was sustained https://www.bibalex.org/en/News/Details?DocumentID=1550&Keywords https://www.bibalex.org/en/News/Details?DocumentID=1550&Keyw...
      - mburns 2y ago
        iirc, Library of Alexandria's collection grew from making copies of books brought into port by sailors. So, there are definitely some loose historical parallels to draw.
    - Kim_Bruning 2y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibliotheca_Alexandrina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibliotheca_Alexandrina Direct link for the New Library of Alexandria.
  - skyyler 2y ago
    Yes, Alexandria Egypt. No, this is not a joke. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Archive#/media/File:Internet_Archive_-_Bibliotheca_Alexandrina.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Archive#/media/File:I... It is kind of funny that they chose to put it there, given the history of the super famous library in the ancient city.
    - jazzyjackson 2y ago
      Brewster is always referencing the old library of Alexandria as an inspiration when he gives tours of the archive, it's certainly no coincidence What's funny is their San Francisco headquarters was chosen because they saw a building go up for sale that looked vaguely like their logo :)
      - skyyler 2y ago
        That's very cute. Working with the IA sounds like a lot of fun.
fweimer 2y ago
Most jurisdictions with stable, unfiltered Internet connectivity view copyright not as something that has been granted by the government. It's closer to a human right there. It's simply not possible to operate a publicly accessible Internet-Archive-type service in such jurisdictions legally. The United States are a big exception.
- outside1234 2y ago
  You are saying copyright is viewed as a human right?
  - fweimer 2y ago
    Yes, like other property rights. Creators have a natural right to copyright protection of their works.
    - barbazoo 2y ago
      > Creators have a natural right to copyright protection of their works. Can you point to something in our nature that grants us that right? As opposed to just being a social construct?
      - fweimer 2y ago
        Of course it's a social construct. The U.S. system is unusual (among nations that believe personal freedom, rule of law, etc.) that under it, the individual's right to personal property does not flow from the same source as the rights of creators in their works.
- zozbot234 2y ago
  The Internet Archive hosts copies of a lot of public domain content that they could mirror in the EU. Not sure why copyright should be an issue wrt. such a service.
mellosouls 2y ago
Some other countries have their own (legally mandated and publicly funded) web archives, and have had them for a decade and more. The Internet Archive led (and leads) the way, but this is an established and growing medium now. https://netpreserve.org/about-us/members/ https://netpreserve.org/about-us/members/
ajsnigrutin 2y ago
> protect against rewriting of history I'd be much happier if this was regulated directly for the media. On multiple occasions i've seen an article on reddit, read it, had a long argument about something, and they quote a part of the article I never saw, and when I click on the article, the title is different, the content is different, the "truth" is different. No "this article was edited", no "click here to see previous revisions", no nothing. And i'm talking about hours since the article was posted and the change. Going years back is even worse, things i clearly remember happening, don't exist in the media anymore, here and there i found an old reddit comment with a link (+ wayback machine) to find what was written then, but without a link, that content "doesn't exist anymore". Just mandate keeping all revisions of articles, even deleted ones directly, so anyone can see the previous version directly on the site, without needing a third party service and guessing the dates when the changes were made (but that 3rd party service can still work as a verification to check if they really kept everything). Sites like wikipedia rely on media for many things, and consider what the media writes as "the truth" (not all media, just the one blessed by wikipedia admins), and changing media stories also means changing wikipedia, which already is the only source of info many people use even today.
- panza 2y ago
  I wonder if there's a commercial incentive for a news outlet to choose to do this - "we don't hide, never delete articles, preserve history etc..." Or perhaps just some middle ground between 'we delete, change and hide articles' and 'this link is forever and here's the full diff history'.
- ta1243 2y ago
  You're fighting the battles of the last decade. The truth is what chatgpt spits out now, not wikipedia.
  - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
    ChatGPT is even worse... it's like a college student with good rethoric/speaking skills, but lacking knowledge. It can confidently spurt out total bullshit, that then gets pasted on reddit/HN/..., and a new iteration of "AI" learns from that. It can't even get recipes right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVaYJgmPvCg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVaYJgmPvCg
hulitu 2y ago
> to protect against rewriting of history. too late.

skyyler 2y ago

There's one in Alexandria, I believe. I agree that there should be more.

outside1234 2y ago
Alexandria Egypt? Or is this a joke comment?
- yawndex 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria
  - outside1234 2y ago
    Yes, so assuming this was a historical reference, and that some sort of digital equivalent has not been formed there. :)
    - jazzyjackson 2y ago
      Bibliotheca Alexandria installed a mirror of the Internet Archive in 2007, it's unclear from a brief googling if the relationship was sustained https://www.bibalex.org/en/News/Details?DocumentID=1550&Keywords https://www.bibalex.org/en/News/Details?DocumentID=1550&Keyw...
    - mburns 2y ago
      iirc, Library of Alexandria's collection grew from making copies of books brought into port by sailors. So, there are definitely some loose historical parallels to draw.
  - Kim_Bruning 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibliotheca_Alexandrina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibliotheca_Alexandrina Direct link for the New Library of Alexandria.
- skyyler 2y ago
  Yes, Alexandria Egypt. No, this is not a joke. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Archive#/media/File:Internet_Archive_-_Bibliotheca_Alexandrina.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Archive#/media/File:I... It is kind of funny that they chose to put it there, given the history of the super famous library in the ancient city.
  - jazzyjackson 2y ago
    Brewster is always referencing the old library of Alexandria as an inspiration when he gives tours of the archive, it's certainly no coincidence What's funny is their San Francisco headquarters was chosen because they saw a building go up for sale that looked vaguely like their logo :)
    - skyyler 2y ago
      That's very cute. Working with the IA sounds like a lot of fun.

fweimer 2y ago

Most jurisdictions with stable, unfiltered Internet connectivity view copyright not as something that has been granted by the government. It's closer to a human right there. It's simply not possible to operate a publicly accessible Internet-Archive-type service in such jurisdictions legally. The United States are a big exception.

outside1234 2y ago
You are saying copyright is viewed as a human right?
- fweimer 2y ago
  Yes, like other property rights. Creators have a natural right to copyright protection of their works.
  - barbazoo 2y ago
    > Creators have a natural right to copyright protection of their works. Can you point to something in our nature that grants us that right? As opposed to just being a social construct?
    - fweimer 2y ago
      Of course it's a social construct. The U.S. system is unusual (among nations that believe personal freedom, rule of law, etc.) that under it, the individual's right to personal property does not flow from the same source as the rights of creators in their works.
zozbot234 2y ago
The Internet Archive hosts copies of a lot of public domain content that they could mirror in the EU. Not sure why copyright should be an issue wrt. such a service.

mellosouls 2y ago

Some other countries have their own (legally mandated and publicly funded) web archives, and have had them for a decade and more. The Internet Archive led (and leads) the way, but this is an established and growing medium now. https://netpreserve.org/about-us/members/ https://netpreserve.org/about-us/members/

ajsnigrutin 2y ago

> protect against rewriting of history I'd be much happier if this was regulated directly for the media. On multiple occasions i've seen an article on reddit, read it, had a long argument about something, and they quote a part of the article I never saw, and when I click on the article, the title is different, the content is different, the "truth" is different. No "this article was edited", no "click here to see previous revisions", no nothing. And i'm talking about hours since the article was posted and the change. Going years back is even worse, things i clearly remember happening, don't exist in the media anymore, here and there i found an old reddit comment with a link (+ wayback machine) to find what was written then, but without a link, that content "doesn't exist anymore". Just mandate keeping all revisions of articles, even deleted ones directly, so anyone can see the previous version directly on the site, without needing a third party service and guessing the dates when the changes were made (but that 3rd party service can still work as a verification to check if they really kept everything). Sites like wikipedia rely on media for many things, and consider what the media writes as "the truth" (not all media, just the one blessed by wikipedia admins), and changing media stories also means changing wikipedia, which already is the only source of info many people use even today.

panza 2y ago
I wonder if there's a commercial incentive for a news outlet to choose to do this - "we don't hide, never delete articles, preserve history etc..." Or perhaps just some middle ground between 'we delete, change and hide articles' and 'this link is forever and here's the full diff history'.
ta1243 2y ago
You're fighting the battles of the last decade. The truth is what chatgpt spits out now, not wikipedia.
- ajsnigrutin 2y ago
  ChatGPT is even worse... it's like a college student with good rethoric/speaking skills, but lacking knowledge. It can confidently spurt out total bullshit, that then gets pasted on reddit/HN/..., and a new iteration of "AI" learns from that. It can't even get recipes right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVaYJgmPvCg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVaYJgmPvCg

hulitu 2y ago

> to protect against rewriting of history. too late.