5 ms·

i guess the real invention for wheeled transportation is not wheels, but (flat) roads

inglor_cz 2y ago
Plus draft animals capable of pulling large wagons. Oxen and horses were unavailable for pre-Columbian civilizations in the new world, and poor llamas cannot cut it.
- ashoeafoot 2y ago
  They had giant sloths?
  - nkozyra 2y ago
    Well except they died out ~ 9,000+ years before the initial invention of the wheel.
- OJFord 2y ago
  Wheels are hugely beneficial for human-powered transportation too though, well, such as the luggage example up-thread. It's thought the moyai on Easter Island were moved into place rolled on logs, they didn't have oxen or horses either, but rolling on logs or if they'd built a wheeled trailer make it much easier for a group of humans to move them without damage than just be dragging or rocking.
  - dmbche 2y ago
    To be clear south american civilisations had the wheel and used it for throwing pottery, for drills and many other uses different than transportation - it is also suspected that they used the same log method to move large objects. Just not a wheel-axle-bearing "vehicle"
    - kragen 2y ago
      I don't think any American civilizations had the potter's wheel.
    - rtkwe 2y ago
      Coiling was actually the main method and there's not any evidence they used potters wheels until after European contact and even then it didn't take off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramics_of_Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramics_of_Indigenous_peoples...
  - AngryData 2y ago
    On cleared and mostly flat ground yes. But if you are going up any sorts of inclines human power doesn't really cut it over any real distances without adding mechanical assistance that slows everything way down. And on rough terrain its a wash even before you consider the difficulties in making wooden wheels that can survive off-road abuse for any length of time.
  - rtkwe 2y ago
    Over hilly terrain in jungle-y environments I bet that goes down a fair amount though, you have to make the simultaneous leap of wheeled carts plus road paving or maintenance to make the carts not a slog probably.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  On the contrary, you'll apreciate wheels more if you are your own source of motive power.
  - inglor_cz 2y ago
    It is certainly somewhat interesting that, unlike the Chinese, the Amerindians never used a wheelbarrow. https://www.wheelbarrows.co.uk/evolution-of-the-wheelbarrow/ https://www.wheelbarrows.co.uk/evolution-of-the-wheelbarrow/
- rafram 2y ago
  > Oxen and horses were unavailable for pre-Columbian civilizations in the new world Eventually. Horses only became extinct in the New World around 10,000 years ago — somewhere between 15,000 and 6,000 years after humans arrived.
  - inglor_cz 2y ago
    Yes, the horse is actually an American species that expanded into the Old World. The pre-Columbian civilizations (and by that I mean the highly organized socially stratified societies that we are aware of) only emerged several millennia after the paleo-Indians hunted horses to extinction, though.
mr_toad 2y ago
You can’t scale up a wheel on a children’s toy and expect it to work on a loaded cart. It would just break. Cartwheels that will go the distance require fairly skilled carpentry.
- kragen 2y ago
  Pre-Columbian Mesoamericans did have fairly skilled carpentry, though. They just didn't have cart wheels.
  - Ray20 2y ago
    Perhaps it was precisely because they were not so skilled?
    - bee_rider 2y ago
      Carpentry is a pretty big field, so it is probably not right to say they were or weren’t skilled. They didn’t have the specific skill of making cart wheels.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Plus draft animals capable of pulling large wagons. Oxen and horses were unavailable for pre-Columbian civilizations in the new world, and poor llamas cannot cut it.

ashoeafoot 2y ago
They had giant sloths?
- nkozyra 2y ago
  Well except they died out ~ 9,000+ years before the initial invention of the wheel.
OJFord 2y ago
Wheels are hugely beneficial for human-powered transportation too though, well, such as the luggage example up-thread. It's thought the moyai on Easter Island were moved into place rolled on logs, they didn't have oxen or horses either, but rolling on logs or if they'd built a wheeled trailer make it much easier for a group of humans to move them without damage than just be dragging or rocking.
- dmbche 2y ago
  To be clear south american civilisations had the wheel and used it for throwing pottery, for drills and many other uses different than transportation - it is also suspected that they used the same log method to move large objects. Just not a wheel-axle-bearing "vehicle"
  - kragen 2y ago
    I don't think any American civilizations had the potter's wheel.
  - rtkwe 2y ago
    Coiling was actually the main method and there's not any evidence they used potters wheels until after European contact and even then it didn't take off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramics_of_Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramics_of_Indigenous_peoples...
- AngryData 2y ago
  On cleared and mostly flat ground yes. But if you are going up any sorts of inclines human power doesn't really cut it over any real distances without adding mechanical assistance that slows everything way down. And on rough terrain its a wash even before you consider the difficulties in making wooden wheels that can survive off-road abuse for any length of time.
- rtkwe 2y ago
  Over hilly terrain in jungle-y environments I bet that goes down a fair amount though, you have to make the simultaneous leap of wheeled carts plus road paving or maintenance to make the carts not a slog probably.
potato3732842 2y ago
On the contrary, you'll apreciate wheels more if you are your own source of motive power.
- inglor_cz 2y ago
  It is certainly somewhat interesting that, unlike the Chinese, the Amerindians never used a wheelbarrow. https://www.wheelbarrows.co.uk/evolution-of-the-wheelbarrow/ https://www.wheelbarrows.co.uk/evolution-of-the-wheelbarrow/
rafram 2y ago
> Oxen and horses were unavailable for pre-Columbian civilizations in the new world Eventually. Horses only became extinct in the New World around 10,000 years ago — somewhere between 15,000 and 6,000 years after humans arrived.
- inglor_cz 2y ago
  Yes, the horse is actually an American species that expanded into the Old World. The pre-Columbian civilizations (and by that I mean the highly organized socially stratified societies that we are aware of) only emerged several millennia after the paleo-Indians hunted horses to extinction, though.

mr_toad 2y ago

You can’t scale up a wheel on a children’s toy and expect it to work on a loaded cart. It would just break. Cartwheels that will go the distance require fairly skilled carpentry.

kragen 2y ago
Pre-Columbian Mesoamericans did have fairly skilled carpentry, though. They just didn't have cart wheels.
- Ray20 2y ago
  Perhaps it was precisely because they were not so skilled?
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    Carpentry is a pretty big field, so it is probably not right to say they were or weren’t skilled. They didn’t have the specific skill of making cart wheels.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]