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When I read this, as an American it really strikes me what a trade-off the implementation of social democracy is. It does seem like they are correlated. I wish

by awongh 2y ago

When I read this, as an American it really strikes me what a trade-off the implementation of social democracy is. It does seem like they are correlated. I wish that the USA did better on taking care of people, (because it sucks right now) but some on the left act as if there are no consequences to deciding to implement these things.

Aurornis 2y ago
> When I read this, as an American it really strikes me what a trade-off the implementation of social democracy is. It does seem like they are correlated. In my experience working with some former European entrepreneurs, the startup problem isn’t really directly related to anything about social democracy or safety nets or even taxes. They talked about how difficult, painful, and risky it was for them to start and operate a company at every turn. Even things like bankruptcy and allowing founders to move on with their lives if their startup fails, which we take for granted here, are not a given in European countries. It’s not just the government to blame. The private banking and even societal norms are very different in ways that we don’t even consider in the United States. The US is very friendly to funding and building startups. I didn’t appreciate it until talking to ex-founders from various European countries as well as many founders here who explicitly left EU countries for America because they wanted to start a company.
- awongh 2y ago
  But these societal norms and conservatism are the reasons why it's politically possible to implement social democracy, right? I agree that it's not as simple as "regulation" and "taxes"- it's more fundamental than that. Which is why I think it'll so so hard for the USA to implement a fair social health care system, even though it needs one so badly.
- dachworker 2y ago
  Bankruptcy law is a big one. Another big one is the reputation hit that you are going to incur if your startup fails. Europe does not believe in learning through failure. It is puzzling to a European, that there could be serial entrepreneurs with a history of 3 failed startups who still get funding for their fourth attempt.
dachworker 2y ago
I don't think there is any connection between lack of VC capital and whatever "social democracy" you have in mind. I think it is actually just culture. Europeans are risk averse, pessimistic and cynical. And society is still more elitist than in the new world. Because of these reasons a startup culture cannot flourish.
- awongh 2y ago
  In the sibling thread I made the argument that culture might be the biggest reason why it's true. Elitism / classism might be part the reason why social democracy is possible- if you believe that there are simply a group of people who need help in society you might be more willing to give to them. If everyone is completely equal it might seem like no one actually deserves anything "more" than anyone else.
  - disgruntledphd2 2y ago
    It's not social democracy, otherwise Sweden and Finland wouldn't punch so much above their weight. It's most likely an artifact of smaller, less liquid capital pools and the fact that the US is a really easy large market to tap into, leading to European startups investing into the US market in preference to their own.
    - awongh 2y ago
      In those cases it could be that a country needs to be small enough that it just makes sense to go into the USA market first than anywhere else. If the country were any bigger the domestic market becomes the defacto, limiting growth....
      - disgruntledphd2 2y ago
        Yeah, you see this a bunch in UK startups.

by awongh 2y ago

Aurornis 2y ago

> When I read this, as an American it really strikes me what a trade-off the implementation of social democracy is. It does seem like they are correlated. In my experience working with some former European entrepreneurs, the startup problem isn’t really directly related to anything about social democracy or safety nets or even taxes. They talked about how difficult, painful, and risky it was for them to start and operate a company at every turn. Even things like bankruptcy and allowing founders to move on with their lives if their startup fails, which we take for granted here, are not a given in European countries. It’s not just the government to blame. The private banking and even societal norms are very different in ways that we don’t even consider in the United States. The US is very friendly to funding and building startups. I didn’t appreciate it until talking to ex-founders from various European countries as well as many founders here who explicitly left EU countries for America because they wanted to start a company.

awongh 2y ago
But these societal norms and conservatism are the reasons why it's politically possible to implement social democracy, right? I agree that it's not as simple as "regulation" and "taxes"- it's more fundamental than that. Which is why I think it'll so so hard for the USA to implement a fair social health care system, even though it needs one so badly.
dachworker 2y ago
Bankruptcy law is a big one. Another big one is the reputation hit that you are going to incur if your startup fails. Europe does not believe in learning through failure. It is puzzling to a European, that there could be serial entrepreneurs with a history of 3 failed startups who still get funding for their fourth attempt.

dachworker 2y ago

I don't think there is any connection between lack of VC capital and whatever "social democracy" you have in mind. I think it is actually just culture. Europeans are risk averse, pessimistic and cynical. And society is still more elitist than in the new world. Because of these reasons a startup culture cannot flourish.

awongh 2y ago
In the sibling thread I made the argument that culture might be the biggest reason why it's true. Elitism / classism might be part the reason why social democracy is possible- if you believe that there are simply a group of people who need help in society you might be more willing to give to them. If everyone is completely equal it might seem like no one actually deserves anything "more" than anyone else.
- disgruntledphd2 2y ago
  It's not social democracy, otherwise Sweden and Finland wouldn't punch so much above their weight. It's most likely an artifact of smaller, less liquid capital pools and the fact that the US is a really easy large market to tap into, leading to European startups investing into the US market in preference to their own.
  - awongh 2y ago
    In those cases it could be that a country needs to be small enough that it just makes sense to go into the USA market first than anywhere else. If the country were any bigger the domestic market becomes the defacto, limiting growth....
    - disgruntledphd2 2y ago
      Yeah, you see this a bunch in UK startups.