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I am curious what causes these landers to fail in the bitter cold of night? Is it the batteries? It seems like circuitry should be fine.

looperhacks 2y ago
The moon gets _really_ cold, way below spec for most electronics. That's why sensitive parts are sometimes in a heating component, but that also depends on the battery. And yes, cold batteries might not recover properly.
- celeritascelery 2y ago
  Is it the actual silicon that can’t handle it, or is contraction in joints and connections that breaks?
- atkailash 2y ago
  Meanwhile voyager is beyond the solar system. I don’t see why they didn’t use something that’s not solar so they aren’t just littering the moon
  - amenghra 2y ago
    The moon is huge compared to a single thing we can currently send there. Comparatively, we are “littering” our own atmosphere a ton more during liftoff.
    - atkailash 2y ago
      [dead]
  - alwa 2y ago
    I can’t help but suspect Starship’s recent run of spectacular explosions might frustrate efforts to launch more nuclear-powered craft like the Voyagers too soon…
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - atkailash 2y ago
      [dead]
  - DarmokJalad1701 2y ago
    > Meanwhile voyager is beyond the solar system Which is powered by Pu-238 - something which is in short supply nowadays, extremely expensive and pretty much inaccessible for a private company like Firefly who built the Blue Ghost lander. > I don’t see why they didn’t use something that’s not solar Cost. NASA paid Firefly $101.5M for the Blue-Ghost 1 contract [1]. Just the RTG used on the MSL Mars Lander cost $109M [2] (not counting the R&D costs). > so they aren’t just littering the moon Well, right now it is harming no one. They can only be seen by cameras orbiting the moon. If and when humanity starts living on the moon, these landers will go in museums and will no longer be "litter". [1] https://spaceflightnow.com/2025/03/18/firefly-aerospaces-blue-ghost-mission-1-concludes-successful-14-day-mission-on-the-moon/ https://spaceflightnow.com/2025/03/18/firefly-aerospaces-blu... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-mission_radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator#Cost https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-mission_radioisotope_the...
    - perihelions 2y ago
      For context, some moon rovers have radioisotope heaters, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%27e_4#Chang'e_lander_and_Yutu-2_rover https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%27e_4#Chang'e_lander_and... ("Both the stationary lander and Yutu-2 rover are equipped with a radioisotope heater unit (RHU) in order to heat their subsystems during the long lunar nights") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_1#Rover_description https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_1#Rover_description ("During the lunar nights, the lid was closed, and a polonium-210 radioisotope heater unit kept the internal components at operating temperature") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_heater_unit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_heater_unit
- kristianp 2y ago
  14 days is a long time to keep warm something warm. That's in the realm of a Radioactive decay heater. That might at least keep things warm enough that it can wake up the next day.
Tempest1981 2y ago
Commercial chips have min/max temperature specs, like -20°C to +70°C, or perhaps -40°C to +125°C. (Not sure what spacecraft use.) Lunar temps can drop to -130°C to -250°C
timhh 2y ago
It is possible to survive the lunar night. See https://space.stackexchange.com/a/67918/40677 https://space.stackexchange.com/a/67918/40677
butlike 2y ago
It's a private flight. Probably made cheaply. The article said the lander planned to drill 10 feet but could only do 3. Whole thing smells like shoddy craftsmanship.
- LennyHenrysNuts 2y ago
  Give it a go, see how far you get before we all call your work "shoddy".

looperhacks 2y ago

The moon gets _really_ cold, way below spec for most electronics. That's why sensitive parts are sometimes in a heating component, but that also depends on the battery. And yes, cold batteries might not recover properly.

celeritascelery 2y ago
Is it the actual silicon that can’t handle it, or is contraction in joints and connections that breaks?
atkailash 2y ago
Meanwhile voyager is beyond the solar system. I don’t see why they didn’t use something that’s not solar so they aren’t just littering the moon
- amenghra 2y ago
  The moon is huge compared to a single thing we can currently send there. Comparatively, we are “littering” our own atmosphere a ton more during liftoff.
  - atkailash 2y ago
    [dead]
- alwa 2y ago
  I can’t help but suspect Starship’s recent run of spectacular explosions might frustrate efforts to launch more nuclear-powered craft like the Voyagers too soon…
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - atkailash 2y ago
    [dead]
- DarmokJalad1701 2y ago
  > Meanwhile voyager is beyond the solar system Which is powered by Pu-238 - something which is in short supply nowadays, extremely expensive and pretty much inaccessible for a private company like Firefly who built the Blue Ghost lander. > I don’t see why they didn’t use something that’s not solar Cost. NASA paid Firefly $101.5M for the Blue-Ghost 1 contract [1]. Just the RTG used on the MSL Mars Lander cost $109M [2] (not counting the R&D costs). > so they aren’t just littering the moon Well, right now it is harming no one. They can only be seen by cameras orbiting the moon. If and when humanity starts living on the moon, these landers will go in museums and will no longer be "litter". [1] https://spaceflightnow.com/2025/03/18/firefly-aerospaces-blue-ghost-mission-1-concludes-successful-14-day-mission-on-the-moon/ https://spaceflightnow.com/2025/03/18/firefly-aerospaces-blu... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-mission_radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator#Cost https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-mission_radioisotope_the...
  - perihelions 2y ago
    For context, some moon rovers have radioisotope heaters, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%27e_4#Chang'e_lander_and_Yutu-2_rover https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%27e_4#Chang'e_lander_and... ("Both the stationary lander and Yutu-2 rover are equipped with a radioisotope heater unit (RHU) in order to heat their subsystems during the long lunar nights") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_1#Rover_description https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_1#Rover_description ("During the lunar nights, the lid was closed, and a polonium-210 radioisotope heater unit kept the internal components at operating temperature") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_heater_unit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_heater_unit
kristianp 2y ago
14 days is a long time to keep warm something warm. That's in the realm of a Radioactive decay heater. That might at least keep things warm enough that it can wake up the next day.

Tempest1981 2y ago

Commercial chips have min/max temperature specs, like -20°C to +70°C, or perhaps -40°C to +125°C. (Not sure what spacecraft use.) Lunar temps can drop to -130°C to -250°C

timhh 2y ago

It is possible to survive the lunar night. See https://space.stackexchange.com/a/67918/40677 https://space.stackexchange.com/a/67918/40677

butlike 2y ago

It's a private flight. Probably made cheaply. The article said the lander planned to drill 10 feet but could only do 3. Whole thing smells like shoddy craftsmanship.

LennyHenrysNuts 2y ago
Give it a go, see how far you get before we all call your work "shoddy".