9 ms·

I was skeptical at first, but I think Google’s catch up game with OpenAI has been going pretty well so far. Gemini 2.0 Pro and Flash models are really nice. Dee

I was skeptical at first, but I think Google’s catch up game with OpenAI has been going pretty well so far. Gemini 2.0 Pro and Flash models are really nice. Deep research feature is done really well. Context window is still the best in the industry. Integration with search, gmail, google office suite, google meet, android, etc. They finally have good enough models that lets them leverage their existing portfolio of products, their cloud infrastructure and how embedded they are in the modern work life. Plus, unlike Apple, they are not as restricted in their access to the training data, because of their much less principled privacy stance.

mattlondon 2y ago
(deleted - wrong place)
- joshstrange 2y ago
  There are plenty of people outside of tech circles talking about and using ChatGPT. In fact, that was a massive indicator for me, I heard from them about ChatGPT before I had gotten around to mentioning it to them. That doesn’t mean Google won’t win, I’m just saying ChatGPT is absolutely in the zeitgeist.
- trjordan 2y ago
  ChatGPT has 400m weekly users. X / Twitter has 600m. It's pretty popular!
- fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
  > I am not convinced that many people outside of tech circles knows about ChatGPT. "AI" sure, but ChatGPT I am unconvinced. The non-tech people don't even know there are alternatives to ChatGPT. Google is to search what ChatGPT is to LLM for most non-tech people in my experience. My kids use it, their friends use it. My neighbors have brought it up. I work at a non-tech company and talk to a lot of non-tech people and it's rare to speak to someone who doesn't know about ChatGPT now.
donny2018 2y ago
Technologically they may have caught up, but market wise they may have lost forever. In my country (and I think in many others), ChatGPT is already a household name, and nobody has even heard about Gemini. This looks like the Google+ vs Facebook story all over again.
- mprev 2y ago
  Isn’t this more like Teams vs Slack or Zoom? Consumer brand recognition isn’t the issue. Bundling with Workspace might be.
- j_maffe 2y ago
  Chatbots are not social media platforms. Also the vast majority of expected revenue from this industry is not from casual paying users, it's from other companies who will optimize for performance and price.
  - riku_iki 2y ago
    Chatbots are clear replacement for search with all implications and huge revenue for winner.
    - nukem222 2y ago
      How do you figure? Chatbots don't cite their sources (unless you explicitly set up an RAG); search engines do. What value does the former have? Chatbots seem more useful for stuff like generating filler and changing tone.
      - riku_iki 2y ago
        topic is revenue stream, so chatbots can become major revenue surface, and chatbot winner brand will get most revenue stream, while search engines will be just some switchable backend.
    - kridsdale1 2y ago
      Right. A few years from now these will all have figured out insidious ad insertion techniques and the economics will be very different.
oulipo 2y ago
I think so... we seem to be hitting the roof of current LLMs capabilities, now the next generation of AI tools will need a research breakthrough, and Google and Microsoft still have the biggest research teams
mekpro 2y ago
Also, they open-model gemma-3 is very competitive for its size and actually beats llama-3 from Meta. Not to mention that OpenAI doesn't offer anything open anymore.
2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
Why the skepticism? Skeptical that it might not be profitable for 0.5 ms and they'll cancel it? They have the data and the money, all they needed was to not self sabotage.
Spooky23 2y ago
Google has a really good story n the GCP side. Vertex can meet FedRAMP High compliance, so the controls are good. Workspace is, like Office 365 Copilot, still figuring itself out. Apple painted itself into a corner. They have the best SoC story in the industry and are years ahead, but skimped on memory to save a few pennies and really nerfed their most important product. They’re in a pickle as a result and won’t give up the control they would need to for a third party on-device AI to be effective.
- echelon 2y ago
  For all the wonder of Apple Silicon, if won't run any of the models I want it to. AI on Mac is a horrible experience as a developer and a consumer. So much for edge computing on Apple devices. Their marketing around how good their hardware is for AI is total BS.
  - nomel 2y ago
    > Their marketing around how good their hardware is for AI is total BS. What are you comparing it to, and what do you consider "edge computing"? iPhone vs Samsung benchmarks show a massive difference. Macbook shows great performance, when compared to other notebooks with battery lives longer than 30 minutes. If you're comparing to a $1k gaming GPU, with an order of magnitude more power usage, then sure, things fall apart. The definition of "edge computing" being "can run > 4gb models locally" is pretty new. Who do you see as doing better?
dailykoder 2y ago
> Integration with search, gmail, google office suite, google meet, android, etc. That's kinda crazy that people absolutely stopped to care that all their emails and so forth will be used as training data for the next models
scojjac 2y ago
I was paying $6/month for Google Workspace Business Starter and refused to pay for the Gemini add-on because it was like $20/month on its own. Now Gemini is included and the plan is $14/month. I've been decently impressed with it's ability to work with PDFs and images, create tables that can export to Sheets, text that can export to Docs, Deep Research, and Help Me Write. I really think the imtegration with other Google products is where it shines. Now I use Gemini most, and bounce off of Claude occasionally. I rarely touch ChatGPT.

mattlondon 2y ago

(deleted - wrong place)

joshstrange 2y ago
There are plenty of people outside of tech circles talking about and using ChatGPT. In fact, that was a massive indicator for me, I heard from them about ChatGPT before I had gotten around to mentioning it to them. That doesn’t mean Google won’t win, I’m just saying ChatGPT is absolutely in the zeitgeist.
trjordan 2y ago
ChatGPT has 400m weekly users. X / Twitter has 600m. It's pretty popular!
fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
> I am not convinced that many people outside of tech circles knows about ChatGPT. "AI" sure, but ChatGPT I am unconvinced. The non-tech people don't even know there are alternatives to ChatGPT. Google is to search what ChatGPT is to LLM for most non-tech people in my experience. My kids use it, their friends use it. My neighbors have brought it up. I work at a non-tech company and talk to a lot of non-tech people and it's rare to speak to someone who doesn't know about ChatGPT now.

donny2018 2y ago

Technologically they may have caught up, but market wise they may have lost forever. In my country (and I think in many others), ChatGPT is already a household name, and nobody has even heard about Gemini. This looks like the Google+ vs Facebook story all over again.

mprev 2y ago
Isn’t this more like Teams vs Slack or Zoom? Consumer brand recognition isn’t the issue. Bundling with Workspace might be.
j_maffe 2y ago
Chatbots are not social media platforms. Also the vast majority of expected revenue from this industry is not from casual paying users, it's from other companies who will optimize for performance and price.
- riku_iki 2y ago
  Chatbots are clear replacement for search with all implications and huge revenue for winner.
  - nukem222 2y ago
    How do you figure? Chatbots don't cite their sources (unless you explicitly set up an RAG); search engines do. What value does the former have? Chatbots seem more useful for stuff like generating filler and changing tone.
    - riku_iki 2y ago
      topic is revenue stream, so chatbots can become major revenue surface, and chatbot winner brand will get most revenue stream, while search engines will be just some switchable backend.
  - kridsdale1 2y ago
    Right. A few years from now these will all have figured out insidious ad insertion techniques and the economics will be very different.

oulipo 2y ago

I think so... we seem to be hitting the roof of current LLMs capabilities, now the next generation of AI tools will need a research breakthrough, and Google and Microsoft still have the biggest research teams

mekpro 2y ago

Also, they open-model gemma-3 is very competitive for its size and actually beats llama-3 from Meta. Not to mention that OpenAI doesn't offer anything open anymore.

2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago

Why the skepticism? Skeptical that it might not be profitable for 0.5 ms and they'll cancel it? They have the data and the money, all they needed was to not self sabotage.

Spooky23 2y ago

Google has a really good story n the GCP side. Vertex can meet FedRAMP High compliance, so the controls are good. Workspace is, like Office 365 Copilot, still figuring itself out. Apple painted itself into a corner. They have the best SoC story in the industry and are years ahead, but skimped on memory to save a few pennies and really nerfed their most important product. They’re in a pickle as a result and won’t give up the control they would need to for a third party on-device AI to be effective.

echelon 2y ago
For all the wonder of Apple Silicon, if won't run any of the models I want it to. AI on Mac is a horrible experience as a developer and a consumer. So much for edge computing on Apple devices. Their marketing around how good their hardware is for AI is total BS.
- nomel 2y ago
  > Their marketing around how good their hardware is for AI is total BS. What are you comparing it to, and what do you consider "edge computing"? iPhone vs Samsung benchmarks show a massive difference. Macbook shows great performance, when compared to other notebooks with battery lives longer than 30 minutes. If you're comparing to a $1k gaming GPU, with an order of magnitude more power usage, then sure, things fall apart. The definition of "edge computing" being "can run > 4gb models locally" is pretty new. Who do you see as doing better?

dailykoder 2y ago

> Integration with search, gmail, google office suite, google meet, android, etc. That's kinda crazy that people absolutely stopped to care that all their emails and so forth will be used as training data for the next models

scojjac 2y ago

I was paying $6/month for Google Workspace Business Starter and refused to pay for the Gemini add-on because it was like $20/month on its own. Now Gemini is included and the plan is $14/month. I've been decently impressed with it's ability to work with PDFs and images, create tables that can export to Sheets, text that can export to Docs, Deep Research, and Help Me Write. I really think the imtegration with other Google products is where it shines. Now I use Gemini most, and bounce off of Claude occasionally. I rarely touch ChatGPT.