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> Just like for other big challenges like biodiversity and climate change, it feels like it often boils down to the politicians just not understanding enough to

> Just like for other big challenges like biodiversity and climate change, it feels like it often boils down to the politicians just not understanding enough to take rational decisions. Of course they can't all have a PhD in cryptography, but they should also not have no clue at all. They would argue about the damages drugs do. I think they know what they are doing. Digital privacy has no lobby outside of EEF. We donate more than $10k to them annually.

Nextgrid 2y ago
The "war" on drugs is what brings all of the violence and crime associated with drugs, not the drugs themselves. But it finances the police industrial complex and so many people would lose out (or be forced to focus on actual crimes rather than people consensually trading plants or chemicals) that it will never happen.
- achenet 2y ago
  The pharmaceutical industry has a pretty big lobby, so does big tobacco, and don't even get me started on the alcohol industry. If one of them finds a way to patent drugs that are currently illegal or otherwise profit from it, legalization will happen. Honestly, in many places, legalization has already happened, look at the coffee shops in the Netherlands and the dispensaries in North America. The police industrial complex might be attached to their cash cow, but everyone else in the capitalist system wants to get rich too, and I suspect in the long run that'll win out. Also, much as how after a few thousand years of civilization people eventually wised up to human sacrifice wasn't actually a good idea and was not in any way required to make the sun come up, maybe at some point in the future we'll realize that harsh criminal penalties don't actually solve the drug problem. France has some of the strictest laws against cannabis use in Europe, and also some of the highest rates of consumption, or at least it did last time I checked.
- tiltowait 2y ago
  > The "war" on drugs is what brings all of the violence and crime associated with drugs, not the drugs themselves. Some of it, certainly, but I doubt it's all. Violence committed by druggies trying to scrape up enough for their next hit would still happen.
  - hollerith 2y ago
    Also, violence caused by a sociopath's giving a desperate addict $50 in exchange for the addict's shooting one of the sociopath's enemies would still happen. Also, addicts stealing from their moms would still happen, which is regrettable even if it is not violence.
    - Viliam1234 2y ago
      The syringes thrown away on lawns and playgrounds probably also won't disappear just because the drugs get cheaper.
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    I wonder how much crime is done by people trying to get another hit of alcohol or cigarettes. They are pretty addictive, but I haven’t heard of this becoming a problem with legal drugs for whatever reason.
  - lstodd 2y ago
    Do you not see that you're contradicting yourself? If drugs were not prohibited, they would not cost so much as to cause "scraping up enough". How come I can buy 50 liters of isopropanol (99.(9) whatever, dehydrated, better than medical eth) for like 20 euro, but no luck for ethanol. Even while ethanol is that much cheaper to produce?
  - throwaway2037 2y ago
    > Violence committed by druggies trying to scrape up enough for their next hit would still happen. Portugal (mostly) decriminalised possession and use of all illegal drugs in 2001. (Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal) This should be an ideal country for study. Do you know if violence from drug users declined after this change in Portugal?
  - marcosdumay 2y ago
    How much violence do you see from people trying to scrape up enough to get the next drink or cigarette? It's almost none, because those things don't cost enough to ruin a person's life. Even for most of the serious addicts.
- palata 2y ago
  Hmm... The "war on drugs" probably brings violence associated with drugs, but drugs in general bring harm (when someone becomes an addict or dies because of an overdose, it does harm to the relatives). Nobody would care about drugs if it didn't.

Nextgrid 2y ago

The "war" on drugs is what brings all of the violence and crime associated with drugs, not the drugs themselves. But it finances the police industrial complex and so many people would lose out (or be forced to focus on actual crimes rather than people consensually trading plants or chemicals) that it will never happen.

achenet 2y ago
The pharmaceutical industry has a pretty big lobby, so does big tobacco, and don't even get me started on the alcohol industry. If one of them finds a way to patent drugs that are currently illegal or otherwise profit from it, legalization will happen. Honestly, in many places, legalization has already happened, look at the coffee shops in the Netherlands and the dispensaries in North America. The police industrial complex might be attached to their cash cow, but everyone else in the capitalist system wants to get rich too, and I suspect in the long run that'll win out. Also, much as how after a few thousand years of civilization people eventually wised up to human sacrifice wasn't actually a good idea and was not in any way required to make the sun come up, maybe at some point in the future we'll realize that harsh criminal penalties don't actually solve the drug problem. France has some of the strictest laws against cannabis use in Europe, and also some of the highest rates of consumption, or at least it did last time I checked.
tiltowait 2y ago
> The "war" on drugs is what brings all of the violence and crime associated with drugs, not the drugs themselves. Some of it, certainly, but I doubt it's all. Violence committed by druggies trying to scrape up enough for their next hit would still happen.
- hollerith 2y ago
  Also, violence caused by a sociopath's giving a desperate addict $50 in exchange for the addict's shooting one of the sociopath's enemies would still happen. Also, addicts stealing from their moms would still happen, which is regrettable even if it is not violence.
  - Viliam1234 2y ago
    The syringes thrown away on lawns and playgrounds probably also won't disappear just because the drugs get cheaper.
- bee_rider 2y ago
  I wonder how much crime is done by people trying to get another hit of alcohol or cigarettes. They are pretty addictive, but I haven’t heard of this becoming a problem with legal drugs for whatever reason.
- lstodd 2y ago
  Do you not see that you're contradicting yourself? If drugs were not prohibited, they would not cost so much as to cause "scraping up enough". How come I can buy 50 liters of isopropanol (99.(9) whatever, dehydrated, better than medical eth) for like 20 euro, but no luck for ethanol. Even while ethanol is that much cheaper to produce?
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  > Violence committed by druggies trying to scrape up enough for their next hit would still happen. Portugal (mostly) decriminalised possession and use of all illegal drugs in 2001. (Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal) This should be an ideal country for study. Do you know if violence from drug users declined after this change in Portugal?
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  How much violence do you see from people trying to scrape up enough to get the next drink or cigarette? It's almost none, because those things don't cost enough to ruin a person's life. Even for most of the serious addicts.
palata 2y ago
Hmm... The "war on drugs" probably brings violence associated with drugs, but drugs in general bring harm (when someone becomes an addict or dies because of an overdose, it does harm to the relatives). Nobody would care about drugs if it didn't.