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At this point, weakening any American tech company really is a matter of data sovereignty for Europe. That may not be the main reason all this started, but I th

At this point, weakening any American tech company really is a matter of data sovereignty for Europe. That may not be the main reason all this started, but I think recent months have underscored Europe's need, and supercharged Europe's determination in this regard. I'd expect significant changes in EU policies regarding tech companies going forward. Mostly calibrated to decrease American dominance in the sector.

blibble 2y ago
personally, I think the way to deal with this is the way the Chinese have done it (very successfully) if US "gatekeepers" wish to operate in the European market, it will be under license, with a joint venture that is majority controlled by European shareholders, with technology transfer agreements essentially: using their own greed against them and if they don't like it, they can operate somewhere else
- apwell23 2y ago
  Chinese do it to steal IP from their joint venture
  - blibble 2y ago
    I would relish the irony of having Google, Microsoft and Facebook complain about IP theft whilst their AI crawlers plunder any and all copyrighted material ever placed on the internet
    - nonethewiser 2y ago
      But other search engines already crawl Google's websites. If we want to call that IP theft. The alleged IP theft against Google would be new and of a different kind than what Google is committing. Again, if we want to call web crawling IP theft. Which seems dubious.
    - bilbo0s 2y ago
      This. These are the kinds of hypocrisies that I'm talking about when I say that American companies from Amazon to Tesla are also responsible for the worsening fracture between the US and EU. Trump and Vance should not escape responsibility for their share of this fiasco. But this transatlantic break is something that was very much a team effort. And as a team we in the US have been, perhaps unwittingly, working towards this hostility for a long time.
    - blackqueeriroh 2y ago
      As do the Chinese and European AI companies as well.
- nonethewiser 2y ago
  You cant have this without a great firewall.
  - slt2021 2y ago
    firewall not needed, just need to remove the way for US companies to make money from advertising in Europe. as long as ads money gravy train to USA is stopped, USA companies will leave themselves / or comply
    - nonethewiser 2y ago
      How do you stop Europeans from accessing the services?
      - vkou 2y ago
        You stop the firms from getting paid, not Europeans from accessing those services. They'll very quickly figure out how to become compliant.
        nonethewiser 2y ago
        If a service cant operate in Europe what incentive is there to comply with EU regulation?
        ahartmetz 2y ago
        Money (which also "enables" compliance)
        dwattttt 2y ago
        The context of this is considering requiring companies to pay/acquire a licence to operate in the EU; if a company isn't willing to abide the terms of the license, not operating in the EU is the whole point.
        2y ago
- bilbo0s 2y ago
  Yeah. I think regulations of that nature may be coming. I think in the US, we've put ourselves in a really bad spot. Most will likely blame Trump/Vance, and they definitely deserve their share. But the American tech industry has been contributing its quota towards this break for a long time as well. And we should be honest about that. Also, I know that no one will want to hear this on HN, but workers at American companies have also not made us any friends in Europe. There is a strong undercurrent of resentment due to some American workers not having the ability to maintain a humble and collaborative demeanor online or IRL.
  - blibble 2y ago
    > I think in the US, we've put ourselves in a really bad spot. Most will likely blame Trump/Vance, and they definitely deserve their share. But the American tech industry has been contributing its quota towards this break for a long time as well. And we should be honest about that. I think that televised meeting with Zelensky was a wake-up call to many people, including myself we can't allow ourselves to become any more dependent on the country that elected this regime, and not once (because a mistake can be forgiven), but twice the current dependency also needs to be reduced to ensure the long survival of our societies and way of life
- dmix 2y ago
  The only countries that do this in the world are China and Iran. Russia and India do it partially, such as rules for storing data domestically so they can snoop on it. Apple has a company called GCBD running their iCloud so the Chinese gov can access it https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-censorship-data.html?unlocked_article_code=1.5k4.9qhO.7skP35hQuTqY&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-ce... Google, LinkedIn, Uber, etc left China. Meta refused to do a joint venture so never entered the market. The only big American names who did a joint venture were Apple and Tesl
  - ashoeafoot 2y ago
    TikTok?
    - dmix 2y ago
      There is no law in America requiring domestic joint ventures. The Tiktok law gives the US gov power to ban social media companies controlled by a "U.S. foreign adversary" (only 6 countries) and offers the chance for divestment, but doesn't require moving operations to the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Americans_from_Foreign_Adversary_Controlled_Applications_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Americans_from_Fore...
- throw_a_grenade 2y ago
  The first sector this happens is defence industry, one of the US of A's biggest exports. EU already decided that weapons will need to be at least 65% manufactured in Europe: https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-freeze-us-multi-billion-defense-plan-arm-makers/ https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-freeze-us-multi-billion-d...
  - jimnotgym 2y ago
    That's what happens when the USA won't let European countries buy the weapons they want
    - throw_a_grenade 2y ago
      Specifically, weapons over which we won't have full control after we take delivery. There's another point in that agreement, design authority over those weapons must be in EU — e.g. no licenced components (even 100% manufactured in Europe) that USA needs to provide software updates for.
arrosenberg 2y ago
Really, it's a matter of overall sovereignty, given where the chips have fallen in the US.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
I think big tech deserves anti trust regulation and action because it is good for a competitive market that actually puts customers first. They’re too big and powerful and abuse their power to hurt fair competition. But I think the type of aggressive action you’re talking about - and the motivation to do it solely to weaken America - will open up a lot of destructive actions back and forth. America choosing to spend less money on Ukraine, pushing for resolution to a conflict that has resulted in mass deaths for Ukrainian males, and renegotiating tariffs doesn’t deserve the kind of hysterical overreaction I’m seeing from Europeans. In the end, if it escalates to open warfare on each other’s economies rather than a reset of trade agreements, it’ll damage both the EU and US to China’s benefit.
- surgical_fire 2y ago
  I think EU will be fine. There are plenty other countries to trade with, including China. China is actually less hostile to EU than US at this point.
  - blackqueeriroh 2y ago
    For the moment, and only because it wants to be the global hegemon, and I promise you that the CCP is not isolationist and will do far worse to Europe than even Trump, for all his destructive and inflammatory idiocy, will do.
    - surgical_fire 2y ago
      Sonehow I doubt it. China was from time immemorial a nation of merchants. They excel in trade. Even their communist experiment, from a historical perspective, quickly gave in for them to revert to what they do best. The US has a history of fucking over other countries for their own benefit instead. I am not saying that EU should align with China or any such thing. There is no reason to not rely in them for trading however.
wil421 2y ago
[flagged]
bhelkey 2y ago
> Mostly calibrated to decrease American dominance in the sector. If the EU takes actions specifically designed to hurt the US, do you think the US wouldn't respond in kind? This is ironically similar to Trump imposing tariffs on Canada and acting surprised when they imposed tariffs in response. The relatively free trade between the US and the EU has been mutually beneficial. The number #1 selling car in the EU is made by an American company [1]. And the US is a huge market for luxury European cars [2]. Everyone is better off by being able to choose between a European or an American car rather than being forced to buy domestic. [1] https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2023-full-year-europe-top-50-best-selling-car-models/ https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2023-full-year-euro... [2] https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0438942EN_US/bmw-of-north-america-reports-q4-2023-and-full-year-2023-u-s-sales-results?language=en_US https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0438942EN...
- surgical_fire 2y ago
  > If the EU takes actions specifically designed to hurt the US, do you think the US wouldn't respond in kind? The US has started the trade war against EU already, with tariffs on steeel/aluminum - assuming they are still active, Trump seemingly lacks cojones to keep tariffs up once others retaliate. Not to say the active hostility against EU, by threatening to annex Greenland (which is currently a Danish territory), open support for Putin in his aggression against Ukraine (which threatens Europe) and so on. At this point the US should be seen as a hostile foreign nation by EU. EU is doing well by tightening the screws against US tech giants. Those companies are possibly a threat to essential infrastructure, and should be treated as such too.
  - bhelkey 2y ago
    > The US has started the trade war against EU already On March 12th the US imposed a tariff on steel/aluminum, the EU responded with an tariff of total equivalent value on US steel/aluminum/agricultural products [1]. This is the core of my point, the US created a tariff against the EU, the EU responded in kind. > the active hostility against EU, by threatening to annex Greenland...[Trump's] aggression against Ukraine Trump has said concerning things about both Ukraine and Greenland and I don't want to downplay that. That being said, the US is currently sending both weapons and intelligence to Ukraine [2]. In fact, he US has given Ukraine more aid than the EU and all of its member states combined (though less than all of Europe combined) [3]. Being the largest supplier of aid, sending weapons and sharing intelligence with Ukraine is clearly not siding with Russia. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_25_750 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_... [2] https://www.npr.org/2025/03/12/nx-s1-5324926/u-s-resumes-ukraine-military-aid-and-intelligence-sharing-as-kyiv-approves-ceasefire https://www.npr.org/2025/03/12/nx-s1-5324926/u-s-resumes-ukr... [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crew8y7pwd5o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crew8y7pwd5o
nico42 2y ago
It's also a response to the failure of the US to regulate their own companies and apply their own antitrust laws.
MPSFounder 2y ago
In any other setting, I would agree. However, most of us here in the US are very unhappy with big tech. The lack of regulation is harming me as a consumer, but as a lobbying-based economy, America affords consumers little to no power. The EU might clearly favor their industries, and be overly aggressive in tech where they lack the momentum America has. The lack of any consumer-oriented support in the US makes me root for the other guy. Sometimes, E2E or USBC for the iphone is something I would argue most Americans are in favor for, but big tech refuses to implement to milk the sheep. Famously, lightning was only kept by Apple for so long because of the revenue it generates as a proprietary cable, despite the abundance of usbc cables. That type of monopolistic practices should be shamed, but we need the EU given America refuses to regulate big Tech.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
eikenberry 2y ago
Maybe this will finally see European software engineers getting better compensation. The companies might avoid it if they move quickly as the US tech industry is a garbage fire at the moment (from an employee perspective) but that will eventually subside and they'll be competing against US companies again for top talent.
- blackqueeriroh 2y ago
  It will not, that would be deeply destabilizing to the local economies

blibble 2y ago

personally, I think the way to deal with this is the way the Chinese have done it (very successfully) if US "gatekeepers" wish to operate in the European market, it will be under license, with a joint venture that is majority controlled by European shareholders, with technology transfer agreements essentially: using their own greed against them and if they don't like it, they can operate somewhere else

apwell23 2y ago
Chinese do it to steal IP from their joint venture
- blibble 2y ago
  I would relish the irony of having Google, Microsoft and Facebook complain about IP theft whilst their AI crawlers plunder any and all copyrighted material ever placed on the internet
  - nonethewiser 2y ago
    But other search engines already crawl Google's websites. If we want to call that IP theft. The alleged IP theft against Google would be new and of a different kind than what Google is committing. Again, if we want to call web crawling IP theft. Which seems dubious.
  - bilbo0s 2y ago
    This. These are the kinds of hypocrisies that I'm talking about when I say that American companies from Amazon to Tesla are also responsible for the worsening fracture between the US and EU. Trump and Vance should not escape responsibility for their share of this fiasco. But this transatlantic break is something that was very much a team effort. And as a team we in the US have been, perhaps unwittingly, working towards this hostility for a long time.
  - blackqueeriroh 2y ago
    As do the Chinese and European AI companies as well.
nonethewiser 2y ago
You cant have this without a great firewall.
- slt2021 2y ago
  firewall not needed, just need to remove the way for US companies to make money from advertising in Europe. as long as ads money gravy train to USA is stopped, USA companies will leave themselves / or comply
  - nonethewiser 2y ago
    How do you stop Europeans from accessing the services?
    - vkou 2y ago
      You stop the firms from getting paid, not Europeans from accessing those services. They'll very quickly figure out how to become compliant.
      - nonethewiser 2y ago
        If a service cant operate in Europe what incentive is there to comply with EU regulation?
        ahartmetz 2y ago
        Money (which also "enables" compliance)
        dwattttt 2y ago
        The context of this is considering requiring companies to pay/acquire a licence to operate in the EU; if a company isn't willing to abide the terms of the license, not operating in the EU is the whole point.
        2y ago
bilbo0s 2y ago
Yeah. I think regulations of that nature may be coming. I think in the US, we've put ourselves in a really bad spot. Most will likely blame Trump/Vance, and they definitely deserve their share. But the American tech industry has been contributing its quota towards this break for a long time as well. And we should be honest about that. Also, I know that no one will want to hear this on HN, but workers at American companies have also not made us any friends in Europe. There is a strong undercurrent of resentment due to some American workers not having the ability to maintain a humble and collaborative demeanor online or IRL.
- blibble 2y ago
  > I think in the US, we've put ourselves in a really bad spot. Most will likely blame Trump/Vance, and they definitely deserve their share. But the American tech industry has been contributing its quota towards this break for a long time as well. And we should be honest about that. I think that televised meeting with Zelensky was a wake-up call to many people, including myself we can't allow ourselves to become any more dependent on the country that elected this regime, and not once (because a mistake can be forgiven), but twice the current dependency also needs to be reduced to ensure the long survival of our societies and way of life
dmix 2y ago
The only countries that do this in the world are China and Iran. Russia and India do it partially, such as rules for storing data domestically so they can snoop on it. Apple has a company called GCBD running their iCloud so the Chinese gov can access it https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-censorship-data.html?unlocked_article_code=1.5k4.9qhO.7skP35hQuTqY&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-ce... Google, LinkedIn, Uber, etc left China. Meta refused to do a joint venture so never entered the market. The only big American names who did a joint venture were Apple and Tesl
- ashoeafoot 2y ago
  TikTok?
  - dmix 2y ago
    There is no law in America requiring domestic joint ventures. The Tiktok law gives the US gov power to ban social media companies controlled by a "U.S. foreign adversary" (only 6 countries) and offers the chance for divestment, but doesn't require moving operations to the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Americans_from_Foreign_Adversary_Controlled_Applications_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Americans_from_Fore...
throw_a_grenade 2y ago
The first sector this happens is defence industry, one of the US of A's biggest exports. EU already decided that weapons will need to be at least 65% manufactured in Europe: https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-freeze-us-multi-billion-defense-plan-arm-makers/ https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-freeze-us-multi-billion-d...
- jimnotgym 2y ago
  That's what happens when the USA won't let European countries buy the weapons they want
  - throw_a_grenade 2y ago
    Specifically, weapons over which we won't have full control after we take delivery. There's another point in that agreement, design authority over those weapons must be in EU — e.g. no licenced components (even 100% manufactured in Europe) that USA needs to provide software updates for.

arrosenberg 2y ago

Really, it's a matter of overall sovereignty, given where the chips have fallen in the US.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

I think big tech deserves anti trust regulation and action because it is good for a competitive market that actually puts customers first. They’re too big and powerful and abuse their power to hurt fair competition. But I think the type of aggressive action you’re talking about - and the motivation to do it solely to weaken America - will open up a lot of destructive actions back and forth. America choosing to spend less money on Ukraine, pushing for resolution to a conflict that has resulted in mass deaths for Ukrainian males, and renegotiating tariffs doesn’t deserve the kind of hysterical overreaction I’m seeing from Europeans. In the end, if it escalates to open warfare on each other’s economies rather than a reset of trade agreements, it’ll damage both the EU and US to China’s benefit.

surgical_fire 2y ago
I think EU will be fine. There are plenty other countries to trade with, including China. China is actually less hostile to EU than US at this point.
- blackqueeriroh 2y ago
  For the moment, and only because it wants to be the global hegemon, and I promise you that the CCP is not isolationist and will do far worse to Europe than even Trump, for all his destructive and inflammatory idiocy, will do.
  - surgical_fire 2y ago
    Sonehow I doubt it. China was from time immemorial a nation of merchants. They excel in trade. Even their communist experiment, from a historical perspective, quickly gave in for them to revert to what they do best. The US has a history of fucking over other countries for their own benefit instead. I am not saying that EU should align with China or any such thing. There is no reason to not rely in them for trading however.

wil421 2y ago

[flagged]

bhelkey 2y ago

> Mostly calibrated to decrease American dominance in the sector. If the EU takes actions specifically designed to hurt the US, do you think the US wouldn't respond in kind? This is ironically similar to Trump imposing tariffs on Canada and acting surprised when they imposed tariffs in response. The relatively free trade between the US and the EU has been mutually beneficial. The number #1 selling car in the EU is made by an American company [1]. And the US is a huge market for luxury European cars [2]. Everyone is better off by being able to choose between a European or an American car rather than being forced to buy domestic. [1] https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2023-full-year-europe-top-50-best-selling-car-models/ https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2023-full-year-euro... [2] https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0438942EN_US/bmw-of-north-america-reports-q4-2023-and-full-year-2023-u-s-sales-results?language=en_US https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0438942EN...

surgical_fire 2y ago
> If the EU takes actions specifically designed to hurt the US, do you think the US wouldn't respond in kind? The US has started the trade war against EU already, with tariffs on steeel/aluminum - assuming they are still active, Trump seemingly lacks cojones to keep tariffs up once others retaliate. Not to say the active hostility against EU, by threatening to annex Greenland (which is currently a Danish territory), open support for Putin in his aggression against Ukraine (which threatens Europe) and so on. At this point the US should be seen as a hostile foreign nation by EU. EU is doing well by tightening the screws against US tech giants. Those companies are possibly a threat to essential infrastructure, and should be treated as such too.
- bhelkey 2y ago
  > The US has started the trade war against EU already On March 12th the US imposed a tariff on steel/aluminum, the EU responded with an tariff of total equivalent value on US steel/aluminum/agricultural products [1]. This is the core of my point, the US created a tariff against the EU, the EU responded in kind. > the active hostility against EU, by threatening to annex Greenland...[Trump's] aggression against Ukraine Trump has said concerning things about both Ukraine and Greenland and I don't want to downplay that. That being said, the US is currently sending both weapons and intelligence to Ukraine [2]. In fact, he US has given Ukraine more aid than the EU and all of its member states combined (though less than all of Europe combined) [3]. Being the largest supplier of aid, sending weapons and sharing intelligence with Ukraine is clearly not siding with Russia. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_25_750 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_... [2] https://www.npr.org/2025/03/12/nx-s1-5324926/u-s-resumes-ukraine-military-aid-and-intelligence-sharing-as-kyiv-approves-ceasefire https://www.npr.org/2025/03/12/nx-s1-5324926/u-s-resumes-ukr... [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crew8y7pwd5o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crew8y7pwd5o

nico42 2y ago

It's also a response to the failure of the US to regulate their own companies and apply their own antitrust laws.

MPSFounder 2y ago

In any other setting, I would agree. However, most of us here in the US are very unhappy with big tech. The lack of regulation is harming me as a consumer, but as a lobbying-based economy, America affords consumers little to no power. The EU might clearly favor their industries, and be overly aggressive in tech where they lack the momentum America has. The lack of any consumer-oriented support in the US makes me root for the other guy. Sometimes, E2E or USBC for the iphone is something I would argue most Americans are in favor for, but big tech refuses to implement to milk the sheep. Famously, lightning was only kept by Apple for so long because of the revenue it generates as a proprietary cable, despite the abundance of usbc cables. That type of monopolistic practices should be shamed, but we need the EU given America refuses to regulate big Tech.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

eikenberry 2y ago

Maybe this will finally see European software engineers getting better compensation. The companies might avoid it if they move quickly as the US tech industry is a garbage fire at the moment (from an employee perspective) but that will eventually subside and they'll be competing against US companies again for top talent.

blackqueeriroh 2y ago
It will not, that would be deeply destabilizing to the local economies