5 ms·

EU pushes ahead with Big Tech antitrust enforcement

92 points by giuliomagnifico 2y ago

giuliomagnifico 2y ago
Archive link: https://archive.is/dpHIP https://archive.is/dpHIP
- linusg789 2y ago
  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/eu-pushes-ahead-with-big-tech-antitrust-enforcement/ar-AA1BfpMU?ocid=BingNewsSerp https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/eu-pushes-ahead-wi...
decremental 2y ago
[dead]
bilbo0s 2y ago
At this point, weakening any American tech company really is a matter of data sovereignty for Europe. That may not be the main reason all this started, but I think recent months have underscored Europe's need, and supercharged Europe's determination in this regard. I'd expect significant changes in EU policies regarding tech companies going forward. Mostly calibrated to decrease American dominance in the sector.
- blibble 2y ago
  personally, I think the way to deal with this is the way the Chinese have done it (very successfully) if US "gatekeepers" wish to operate in the European market, it will be under license, with a joint venture that is majority controlled by European shareholders, with technology transfer agreements essentially: using their own greed against them and if they don't like it, they can operate somewhere else
  - apwell23 2y ago
    Chinese do it to steal IP from their joint venture
    - blibble 2y ago
      I would relish the irony of having Google, Microsoft and Facebook complain about IP theft whilst their AI crawlers plunder any and all copyrighted material ever placed on the internet
      - nonethewiser 2y ago
        But other search engines already crawl Google's websites. If we want to call that IP theft. The alleged IP theft against Google would be new and of a different kind than what Google is committing. Again, if we want to call web crawling IP theft. Which seems dubious.
      - bilbo0s 2y ago
        This. These are the kinds of hypocrisies that I'm talking about when I say that American companies from Amazon to Tesla are also responsible for the worsening fracture between the US and EU. Trump and Vance should not escape responsibility for their share of this fiasco. But this transatlantic break is something that was very much a team effort. And as a team we in the US have been, perhaps unwittingly, working towards this hostility for a long time.
      - blackqueeriroh 2y ago
        As do the Chinese and European AI companies as well.
  - nonethewiser 2y ago
    You cant have this without a great firewall.
    - slt2021 2y ago
      firewall not needed, just need to remove the way for US companies to make money from advertising in Europe. as long as ads money gravy train to USA is stopped, USA companies will leave themselves / or comply
- arrosenberg 2y ago
  Really, it's a matter of overall sovereignty, given where the chips have fallen in the US.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  I think big tech deserves anti trust regulation and action because it is good for a competitive market that actually puts customers first. They’re too big and powerful and abuse their power to hurt fair competition. But I think the type of aggressive action you’re talking about - and the motivation to do it solely to weaken America - will open up a lot of destructive actions back and forth. America choosing to spend less money on Ukraine, pushing for resolution to a conflict that has resulted in mass deaths for Ukrainian males, and renegotiating tariffs doesn’t deserve the kind of hysterical overreaction I’m seeing from Europeans. In the end, if it escalates to open warfare on each other’s economies rather than a reset of trade agreements, it’ll damage both the EU and US to China’s benefit.
  - surgical_fire 2y ago
    I think EU will be fine. There are plenty other countries to trade with, including China. China is actually less hostile to EU than US at this point.
    - blackqueeriroh 2y ago
      For the moment, and only because it wants to be the global hegemon, and I promise you that the CCP is not isolationist and will do far worse to Europe than even Trump, for all his destructive and inflammatory idiocy, will do.
      - surgical_fire 2y ago
        Sonehow I doubt it. China was from time immemorial a nation of merchants. They excel in trade. Even their communist experiment, from a historical perspective, quickly gave in for them to revert to what they do best. The US has a history of fucking over other countries for their own benefit instead. I am not saying that EU should align with China or any such thing. There is no reason to not rely in them for trading however.
- wil421 2y ago
  [flagged]
- bhelkey 2y ago
  > Mostly calibrated to decrease American dominance in the sector. If the EU takes actions specifically designed to hurt the US, do you think the US wouldn't respond in kind? This is ironically similar to Trump imposing tariffs on Canada and acting surprised when they imposed tariffs in response. The relatively free trade between the US and the EU has been mutually beneficial. The number #1 selling car in the EU is made by an American company [1]. And the US is a huge market for luxury European cars [2]. Everyone is better off by being able to choose between a European or an American car rather than being forced to buy domestic. [1] https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2023-full-year-europe-top-50-best-selling-car-models/ https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2023-full-year-euro... [2] https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0438942EN_US/bmw-of-north-america-reports-q4-2023-and-full-year-2023-u-s-sales-results?language=en_US https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0438942EN...
  - surgical_fire 2y ago
    > If the EU takes actions specifically designed to hurt the US, do you think the US wouldn't respond in kind? The US has started the trade war against EU already, with tariffs on steeel/aluminum - assuming they are still active, Trump seemingly lacks cojones to keep tariffs up once others retaliate. Not to say the active hostility against EU, by threatening to annex Greenland (which is currently a Danish territory), open support for Putin in his aggression against Ukraine (which threatens Europe) and so on. At this point the US should be seen as a hostile foreign nation by EU. EU is doing well by tightening the screws against US tech giants. Those companies are possibly a threat to essential infrastructure, and should be treated as such too.
    - bhelkey 2y ago
      > The US has started the trade war against EU already On March 12th the US imposed a tariff on steel/aluminum, the EU responded with an tariff of total equivalent value on US steel/aluminum/agricultural products [1]. This is the core of my point, the US created a tariff against the EU, the EU responded in kind. > the active hostility against EU, by threatening to annex Greenland...[Trump's] aggression against Ukraine Trump has said concerning things about both Ukraine and Greenland and I don't want to downplay that. That being said, the US is currently sending both weapons and intelligence to Ukraine [2]. In fact, he US has given Ukraine more aid than the EU and all of its member states combined (though less than all of Europe combined) [3]. Being the largest supplier of aid, sending weapons and sharing intelligence with Ukraine is clearly not siding with Russia. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_25_750 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_... [2] https://www.npr.org/2025/03/12/nx-s1-5324926/u-s-resumes-ukraine-military-aid-and-intelligence-sharing-as-kyiv-approves-ceasefire https://www.npr.org/2025/03/12/nx-s1-5324926/u-s-resumes-ukr... [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crew8y7pwd5o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crew8y7pwd5o
- nico42 2y ago
  It's also a response to the failure of the US to regulate their own companies and apply their own antitrust laws.
- MPSFounder 2y ago
  In any other setting, I would agree. However, most of us here in the US are very unhappy with big tech. The lack of regulation is harming me as a consumer, but as a lobbying-based economy, America affords consumers little to no power. The EU might clearly favor their industries, and be overly aggressive in tech where they lack the momentum America has. The lack of any consumer-oriented support in the US makes me root for the other guy. Sometimes, E2E or USBC for the iphone is something I would argue most Americans are in favor for, but big tech refuses to implement to milk the sheep. Famously, lightning was only kept by Apple for so long because of the revenue it generates as a proprietary cable, despite the abundance of usbc cables. That type of monopolistic practices should be shamed, but we need the EU given America refuses to regulate big Tech.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- eikenberry 2y ago
  Maybe this will finally see European software engineers getting better compensation. The companies might avoid it if they move quickly as the US tech industry is a garbage fire at the moment (from an employee perspective) but that will eventually subside and they'll be competing against US companies again for top talent.
  - blackqueeriroh 2y ago
    It will not, that would be deeply destabilizing to the local economies
Braxton1980 2y ago
This could lead to more actions by the Trump admin administration against European countries. Not anti-trust but Cook called Trump to complain about the Irish tax outcome where Apple has to pay something like $14b https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj4d75zl212o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj4d75zl212o What happens if tech companies, long seemingly supporting Democrats are wooed by Trump with promises of bullying Europe with more tariffs to stop them from going after American companies. This would result in tech companies supporting Republicans due to the finanical benefit while controlling the messaging on their platforms For example "Instagram and Threads will start recommending political content to users in the US." After a few years of either limiting it or providing an option(? Unsure)
- nonethewiser 2y ago
  > What happens if tech companies, long seemingly supporting Democrats are wooed by Trump with promises of bullying Europe with more tariffs to stop them from going after American companies. This has already happened. There is just friction between executives and company culture.
  - Braxton1980 2y ago
    Have previous administrations been as aggressive against other countries due to their policies? For example with South Africa " “The United States won’t stand for it, we will act,” Trump added. “Also, I will be cutting off all future funding to South Africa until a full investigation of this situation has been completed!” https://www.jurist.org/features/2025/02/11/explainer-understanding-the-south-africa-land-reform-law-that-provoked-trumps-ire/ https://www.jurist.org/features/2025/02/11/explainer-underst... Even if tech companies wanted this and previous admins tried diplomatic pressure or discussions I don't believe it was to the level that we are seeing now.
    - nonethewiser 2y ago
      Im sorry, I dont understand your point. I'm talking about Zuckerberg, Bezos, Cook, etc. all appealing to Trump to fight back against EU regulation and continuing to advance their interests globally. They are all very much in favor of Trump's view of EU regulation on US tech companies.
hello_computer 2y ago
Yes!
jimnotgym 2y ago
It is fascinating how sentiment on here has changed in the last few months. If you look back on any of the many threads on this in the last year you see a much more staunch defence of the tech companies. The world sure has changed
whazor 2y ago
There are US companies benefiting of big tech antitrust enforcement. For example, Apple opening up their ecosystem could be good news for Garmin and Bose. Since there are more tech companies in US it means that fighting antitrust could still be a win for US.
- NotPractical 2y ago
  Of note, so far, you can still take advantage of all the features that the EU has forced Apple to add, as a developer (though not as a user), even if your company is outside the EU. This could of course change in the future, but US companies (other than the largest in the entire world, such as Apple and Google) do very much stand to benefit from what the EU is doing.
  - whazor 2y ago
    Exactly. The US tech industry, even though it hurts Apple and Google, benefits the most even if these features are only rolled out in the EU.
pllbnk 2y ago
I support it in general because regardless of the origin of the business, if it has significant power to control the market, this power has to be removed. However, what I am concerned with more, and this is not being discussed at all in the mainstream, is forcing the companies to offer adequate support. If one of these megaplatforms have a bug that prevents a person from using them, there is no sane way to contact a live human for support and there is no requirement for them to address that bug in a timely manner. So, on one hand, their aim is to get the whole world onto their platform in their specific market segment, but on the other hand, they are not kept liable when people get deplatformed.

giuliomagnifico 2y ago

Archive link: https://archive.is/dpHIP https://archive.is/dpHIP

linusg789 2y ago
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/eu-pushes-ahead-with-big-tech-antitrust-enforcement/ar-AA1BfpMU?ocid=BingNewsSerp https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/eu-pushes-ahead-wi...

decremental 2y ago

[dead]

bilbo0s 2y ago

At this point, weakening any American tech company really is a matter of data sovereignty for Europe. That may not be the main reason all this started, but I think recent months have underscored Europe's need, and supercharged Europe's determination in this regard. I'd expect significant changes in EU policies regarding tech companies going forward. Mostly calibrated to decrease American dominance in the sector.

blibble 2y ago
personally, I think the way to deal with this is the way the Chinese have done it (very successfully) if US "gatekeepers" wish to operate in the European market, it will be under license, with a joint venture that is majority controlled by European shareholders, with technology transfer agreements essentially: using their own greed against them and if they don't like it, they can operate somewhere else
- apwell23 2y ago
  Chinese do it to steal IP from their joint venture
  - blibble 2y ago
    I would relish the irony of having Google, Microsoft and Facebook complain about IP theft whilst their AI crawlers plunder any and all copyrighted material ever placed on the internet
    - nonethewiser 2y ago
      But other search engines already crawl Google's websites. If we want to call that IP theft. The alleged IP theft against Google would be new and of a different kind than what Google is committing. Again, if we want to call web crawling IP theft. Which seems dubious.
    - bilbo0s 2y ago
      This. These are the kinds of hypocrisies that I'm talking about when I say that American companies from Amazon to Tesla are also responsible for the worsening fracture between the US and EU. Trump and Vance should not escape responsibility for their share of this fiasco. But this transatlantic break is something that was very much a team effort. And as a team we in the US have been, perhaps unwittingly, working towards this hostility for a long time.
    - blackqueeriroh 2y ago
      As do the Chinese and European AI companies as well.
- nonethewiser 2y ago
  You cant have this without a great firewall.
  - slt2021 2y ago
    firewall not needed, just need to remove the way for US companies to make money from advertising in Europe. as long as ads money gravy train to USA is stopped, USA companies will leave themselves / or comply
arrosenberg 2y ago
Really, it's a matter of overall sovereignty, given where the chips have fallen in the US.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
I think big tech deserves anti trust regulation and action because it is good for a competitive market that actually puts customers first. They’re too big and powerful and abuse their power to hurt fair competition. But I think the type of aggressive action you’re talking about - and the motivation to do it solely to weaken America - will open up a lot of destructive actions back and forth. America choosing to spend less money on Ukraine, pushing for resolution to a conflict that has resulted in mass deaths for Ukrainian males, and renegotiating tariffs doesn’t deserve the kind of hysterical overreaction I’m seeing from Europeans. In the end, if it escalates to open warfare on each other’s economies rather than a reset of trade agreements, it’ll damage both the EU and US to China’s benefit.
- surgical_fire 2y ago
  I think EU will be fine. There are plenty other countries to trade with, including China. China is actually less hostile to EU than US at this point.
  - blackqueeriroh 2y ago
    For the moment, and only because it wants to be the global hegemon, and I promise you that the CCP is not isolationist and will do far worse to Europe than even Trump, for all his destructive and inflammatory idiocy, will do.
    - surgical_fire 2y ago
      Sonehow I doubt it. China was from time immemorial a nation of merchants. They excel in trade. Even their communist experiment, from a historical perspective, quickly gave in for them to revert to what they do best. The US has a history of fucking over other countries for their own benefit instead. I am not saying that EU should align with China or any such thing. There is no reason to not rely in them for trading however.
wil421 2y ago
[flagged]
bhelkey 2y ago
> Mostly calibrated to decrease American dominance in the sector. If the EU takes actions specifically designed to hurt the US, do you think the US wouldn't respond in kind? This is ironically similar to Trump imposing tariffs on Canada and acting surprised when they imposed tariffs in response. The relatively free trade between the US and the EU has been mutually beneficial. The number #1 selling car in the EU is made by an American company [1]. And the US is a huge market for luxury European cars [2]. Everyone is better off by being able to choose between a European or an American car rather than being forced to buy domestic. [1] https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2023-full-year-europe-top-50-best-selling-car-models/ https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2023-full-year-euro... [2] https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0438942EN_US/bmw-of-north-america-reports-q4-2023-and-full-year-2023-u-s-sales-results?language=en_US https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0438942EN...
- surgical_fire 2y ago
  > If the EU takes actions specifically designed to hurt the US, do you think the US wouldn't respond in kind? The US has started the trade war against EU already, with tariffs on steeel/aluminum - assuming they are still active, Trump seemingly lacks cojones to keep tariffs up once others retaliate. Not to say the active hostility against EU, by threatening to annex Greenland (which is currently a Danish territory), open support for Putin in his aggression against Ukraine (which threatens Europe) and so on. At this point the US should be seen as a hostile foreign nation by EU. EU is doing well by tightening the screws against US tech giants. Those companies are possibly a threat to essential infrastructure, and should be treated as such too.
  - bhelkey 2y ago
    > The US has started the trade war against EU already On March 12th the US imposed a tariff on steel/aluminum, the EU responded with an tariff of total equivalent value on US steel/aluminum/agricultural products [1]. This is the core of my point, the US created a tariff against the EU, the EU responded in kind. > the active hostility against EU, by threatening to annex Greenland...[Trump's] aggression against Ukraine Trump has said concerning things about both Ukraine and Greenland and I don't want to downplay that. That being said, the US is currently sending both weapons and intelligence to Ukraine [2]. In fact, he US has given Ukraine more aid than the EU and all of its member states combined (though less than all of Europe combined) [3]. Being the largest supplier of aid, sending weapons and sharing intelligence with Ukraine is clearly not siding with Russia. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_25_750 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_... [2] https://www.npr.org/2025/03/12/nx-s1-5324926/u-s-resumes-ukraine-military-aid-and-intelligence-sharing-as-kyiv-approves-ceasefire https://www.npr.org/2025/03/12/nx-s1-5324926/u-s-resumes-ukr... [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crew8y7pwd5o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crew8y7pwd5o
nico42 2y ago
It's also a response to the failure of the US to regulate their own companies and apply their own antitrust laws.
MPSFounder 2y ago
In any other setting, I would agree. However, most of us here in the US are very unhappy with big tech. The lack of regulation is harming me as a consumer, but as a lobbying-based economy, America affords consumers little to no power. The EU might clearly favor their industries, and be overly aggressive in tech where they lack the momentum America has. The lack of any consumer-oriented support in the US makes me root for the other guy. Sometimes, E2E or USBC for the iphone is something I would argue most Americans are in favor for, but big tech refuses to implement to milk the sheep. Famously, lightning was only kept by Apple for so long because of the revenue it generates as a proprietary cable, despite the abundance of usbc cables. That type of monopolistic practices should be shamed, but we need the EU given America refuses to regulate big Tech.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
eikenberry 2y ago
Maybe this will finally see European software engineers getting better compensation. The companies might avoid it if they move quickly as the US tech industry is a garbage fire at the moment (from an employee perspective) but that will eventually subside and they'll be competing against US companies again for top talent.
- blackqueeriroh 2y ago
  It will not, that would be deeply destabilizing to the local economies

Braxton1980 2y ago

This could lead to more actions by the Trump admin administration against European countries. Not anti-trust but Cook called Trump to complain about the Irish tax outcome where Apple has to pay something like $14b https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj4d75zl212o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj4d75zl212o What happens if tech companies, long seemingly supporting Democrats are wooed by Trump with promises of bullying Europe with more tariffs to stop them from going after American companies. This would result in tech companies supporting Republicans due to the finanical benefit while controlling the messaging on their platforms For example "Instagram and Threads will start recommending political content to users in the US." After a few years of either limiting it or providing an option(? Unsure)

nonethewiser 2y ago
> What happens if tech companies, long seemingly supporting Democrats are wooed by Trump with promises of bullying Europe with more tariffs to stop them from going after American companies. This has already happened. There is just friction between executives and company culture.
- Braxton1980 2y ago
  Have previous administrations been as aggressive against other countries due to their policies? For example with South Africa " “The United States won’t stand for it, we will act,” Trump added. “Also, I will be cutting off all future funding to South Africa until a full investigation of this situation has been completed!” https://www.jurist.org/features/2025/02/11/explainer-understanding-the-south-africa-land-reform-law-that-provoked-trumps-ire/ https://www.jurist.org/features/2025/02/11/explainer-underst... Even if tech companies wanted this and previous admins tried diplomatic pressure or discussions I don't believe it was to the level that we are seeing now.
  - nonethewiser 2y ago
    Im sorry, I dont understand your point. I'm talking about Zuckerberg, Bezos, Cook, etc. all appealing to Trump to fight back against EU regulation and continuing to advance their interests globally. They are all very much in favor of Trump's view of EU regulation on US tech companies.

hello_computer 2y ago

Yes!

jimnotgym 2y ago

It is fascinating how sentiment on here has changed in the last few months. If you look back on any of the many threads on this in the last year you see a much more staunch defence of the tech companies. The world sure has changed

whazor 2y ago

There are US companies benefiting of big tech antitrust enforcement. For example, Apple opening up their ecosystem could be good news for Garmin and Bose. Since there are more tech companies in US it means that fighting antitrust could still be a win for US.

NotPractical 2y ago
Of note, so far, you can still take advantage of all the features that the EU has forced Apple to add, as a developer (though not as a user), even if your company is outside the EU. This could of course change in the future, but US companies (other than the largest in the entire world, such as Apple and Google) do very much stand to benefit from what the EU is doing.
- whazor 2y ago
  Exactly. The US tech industry, even though it hurts Apple and Google, benefits the most even if these features are only rolled out in the EU.

pllbnk 2y ago

I support it in general because regardless of the origin of the business, if it has significant power to control the market, this power has to be removed. However, what I am concerned with more, and this is not being discussed at all in the mainstream, is forcing the companies to offer adequate support. If one of these megaplatforms have a bug that prevents a person from using them, there is no sane way to contact a live human for support and there is no requirement for them to address that bug in a timely manner. So, on one hand, their aim is to get the whole world onto their platform in their specific market segment, but on the other hand, they are not kept liable when people get deplatformed.