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The Warship That Shows Why the U.S. Navy Is Falling Behind China

12 points by impish9208 2y ago

impish9208 2y ago
Gift link: https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/warship-shows-why-u-s-navy-is-falling-behind-china-94cb9a87?st=Z6bSEB https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/warship-shows...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
PaulHoule 2y ago
In the movie Wolf Warrior 2 the hero calls for support from the Chinese Navy, which waits for UN approval and then launches a missile with a cluster warhead from something that looks a bit like a Zumwalt-class destroyer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt-class_destroyer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt-class_destroyer which has the kind of steathy construction that many nations are adopting but that the US is struggling to build. It reminds me of the trouble the Navy had circa 1970 when it decided tube guns were out and missiles were in and there were legislators who were offended that the new ships didn't look aggressive enough. The US isn't going to lose the next war to Russia, China or Iran, it's going to lose it to Boeing, Lockheed-Martin and General Dynamics.
- ferguess_k 2y ago
  Reminds me of an ancient Chinese phrase: 禍huò 起qǐ 蕭xiāo 牆qiáng (Trouble starts within the house) Got from a Taiwanese website: https://dict.idioms.moe.edu.tw/idiomView.jsp?ID=1513&webMd=2&la=0 https://dict.idioms.moe.edu.tw/idiomView.jsp?ID=1513&webMd=2... > 邦分崩離析而不能守也，而謀動干戈於邦內。吾恐季孫之憂，不在顓臾，而在蕭牆之內也。 Translated from ChatGPT: The nation will crumble and disjoint if it cannot uphold unity, and yet plots for strife arise within its own borders. I fear that the worries of future generations will not reside in external challenges but within their own walls.
- sleepyguy 2y ago
  From what I understand the Zumwalt class destroyer was no longer necessary. https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/18ynq1e/casual_here_why_did_the_us_cancel_buying_more/ https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/18ynq1e/casual...
ReptileMan 2y ago
>The Constellation, the first in what is expected to be around 20 to be built, is projected to cost at least $600 million more than its original estimate of $1.3 billion. At the going rate in ukraine war drones of 10000USD - those are 130 000 drones. I would bet on the one tenth of the drones vs constellation. The US probably should rethink about the way they would project power when close to some adversary's shores.
- nabla9 2y ago
  Quantity has quality of it's own. If the weapon has Pk ratio just 0.01 and you launch 300 of them, the probability that at least one gets trough is 0.95. More importantly weapons in naval ships have limited magazine sizes. Once they run out, they are nothing but targets. More you add defensive weapons into limited number of canisters, less you have left for offensive weapons.

12 points by impish9208 2y ago

Gift link: https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/warship-shows-why-u-s-navy-is-falling-behind-china-94cb9a87?st=Z6bSEB https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/warship-shows...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

PaulHoule 2y ago

In the movie Wolf Warrior 2 the hero calls for support from the Chinese Navy, which waits for UN approval and then launches a missile with a cluster warhead from something that looks a bit like a Zumwalt-class destroyer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt-class_destroyer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt-class_destroyer which has the kind of steathy construction that many nations are adopting but that the US is struggling to build. It reminds me of the trouble the Navy had circa 1970 when it decided tube guns were out and missiles were in and there were legislators who were offended that the new ships didn't look aggressive enough. The US isn't going to lose the next war to Russia, China or Iran, it's going to lose it to Boeing, Lockheed-Martin and General Dynamics.

ferguess_k 2y ago
Reminds me of an ancient Chinese phrase: 禍huò 起qǐ 蕭xiāo 牆qiáng (Trouble starts within the house) Got from a Taiwanese website: https://dict.idioms.moe.edu.tw/idiomView.jsp?ID=1513&webMd=2&la=0 https://dict.idioms.moe.edu.tw/idiomView.jsp?ID=1513&webMd=2... > 邦分崩離析而不能守也，而謀動干戈於邦內。吾恐季孫之憂，不在顓臾，而在蕭牆之內也。 Translated from ChatGPT: The nation will crumble and disjoint if it cannot uphold unity, and yet plots for strife arise within its own borders. I fear that the worries of future generations will not reside in external challenges but within their own walls.
sleepyguy 2y ago
From what I understand the Zumwalt class destroyer was no longer necessary. https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/18ynq1e/casual_here_why_did_the_us_cancel_buying_more/ https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/18ynq1e/casual...

ReptileMan 2y ago

>The Constellation, the first in what is expected to be around 20 to be built, is projected to cost at least $600 million more than its original estimate of $1.3 billion. At the going rate in ukraine war drones of 10000USD - those are 130 000 drones. I would bet on the one tenth of the drones vs constellation. The US probably should rethink about the way they would project power when close to some adversary's shores.

nabla9 2y ago
Quantity has quality of it's own. If the weapon has Pk ratio just 0.01 and you launch 300 of them, the probability that at least one gets trough is 0.95. More importantly weapons in naval ships have limited magazine sizes. Once they run out, they are nothing but targets. More you add defensive weapons into limited number of canisters, less you have left for offensive weapons.