4 ms·

First US sixth-gen fighter jet will be the F-47, and Boeing is going to build it

12 points by donnachangstein 2y ago

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
tqi 2y ago
Do we really still believe that fewer, more expensive and complex planes is the best path forward?
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  They're likely to remain useful in some contexts for quite some time. A few really good planes and a lot of low-end drones is probably what we'll have in a few decades.
  - nradov 2y ago
    In particular the F-47 is expected to act as a forward control node for drones. We're probably decades away from having AI software that can autonomously execute any type of complex mission. So that means there's a critical need for a crewed aircraft survivable enough to get close to the target, even if it doesn't have to directly employ weapons itself.
- ironyman 2y ago
  The USAF requires a very high-end fighter with a range of several thousand nautical miles (or at least double that of the F-22) in order to operate within the area denial bubble of China, which they project is only going to get more and more capable. https://www.twz.com/air/air-force-predicts-enemy-anti-air-missiles-with-1000-mile-range-by-2050 https://www.twz.com/air/air-force-predicts-enemy-anti-air-mi...
  - tqi 2y ago
    Thats interesting - am I understanding correctly that the reasoning is that forward air bases will become more vulnerable, so we need to be able to operate from domestic bases?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ceejayoz 2y ago
Let's hope it goes a little better than Starliner.
uejfiweun 2y ago
Doesn't exactly make me bullish on the future that we're pinning our air superiority hopes on Boeing...
maxglute 2y ago
I guess DoD can't give lockmart monopoly over stealth fighters. That said, IIRC Boeing's never designed a stealth plane before. But can't let Boeing military sink. LM gets F35s, NG gets B21s, Boeing gets NGAD. Looking forward to 20 years of growing pain articles.
ein0p 2y ago
Can we finish the F-35 before we start another trillion dollar boondoggle? Especially with Boeing.
- jerlam 2y ago
  The F-35 has been operational for years, and has already been in combat. How is it not "finished"?
  - sillywalk 2y ago
    Yes it's achieved an Initial Operational Capacity, at least for the earlier versions. However, it hasn't finished Operational Testing, for the newer versions of software/hardware upgrades. "The Office of the Director, Operational Test and Evaluation said in its annual report, submitted to Congress on Jan. 31, that dedicated operational tests for the F-35’s Technology Refresh 3, or TR-3, upgrades will probably start in mid to late fiscal 2026, or around next summer. Those tests are intended to determine whether TR-3 is operationally effective. Lt. Gen. Michael Schmidt, the military’s F-35 program executive officer, said in a statement to Defense News that as of January, Lockheed Martin has delivered more than 100 TR-3 equipped fighters. All of those jets have software allowing its pilots to conduct training flights, including combat training." https://www.defensenews.com/air/2025/02/05/key-tests-for-latest-f-35s-will-begin-in-2026-two-years-after-rollout/ https://www.defensenews.com/air/2025/02/05/key-tests-for-lat...
    - nradov 2y ago
      Well now that's moving the goalposts. Military aircraft are frequently upgraded with new models or blocks throughout the production run. So there will always be new capabilities undergoing testing. The F-35 TR-3 is behind schedule and over budget as usual, but that really has nothing to do with the NGAD / F-47 program.
      - ein0p 2y ago
        Only 30% of F-35 fleet are "mission ready", software suite is full of bugs, and the airframe cracks if you use the cannon, but sure, it's just "moving the goal posts" and has nothing to do with anything. Let's spend another couple trillion on another half-baked heap of bugs, except this time around let's spend it with the company that forgot how to build reliable planes or spacecraft.
Rooster61 2y ago
Lovely. We're stuck between Lockheed, who brought us the wonderful F-35 budget black hole, and Boeing, who can't seem to make anything airworthy these days in commercial and spaceflight. What happened to aviation? The US used to be so incredibly good at it, at least ostensibly.
- salawat 2y ago
  It got financialized. Everything has.
maxglute 2y ago
F47 for 47th president? What a sales pitch.
- EA-3167 2y ago
  Allegedly it's been undergoing test flights for 5 years, back when Trump was the 45th president. I think we can dispense with the notion that the number refers to Trump.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    I think you're mixing up the R&D X-planes (there are lots: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_X-planes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_X-planes) with the actual aircraft, which isn't gonna have its first flight for years. USAF plane naming is... odd. F-35, F-117, B-1/B-2/B-21. Not much rhyme or reason. It's very possible 47 was picked for Trump's benefit. Silly, but possible.
belter 2y ago
Looks like catch up to China: "China’s J-36 Stealth Fighter Prototype Makes Second Public Appearance" - https://www.eurasiantimes.com/chinas-j-36-6th-gen-fighter-prototype/ https://www.eurasiantimes.com/chinas-j-36-6th-gen-fighter-pr...
osiyo 2y ago
Hard to get excited about a crumbling empire telling me they've taken on a badass project and tasked a company like Boeing to make it badass. I was working in a dept full of very talented engineers at Cisco in '19. One of the engineers got a bit fed-up with things and took a new position at Boeing. He returned a month later. Take that however you want.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

tqi 2y ago

Do we really still believe that fewer, more expensive and complex planes is the best path forward?

ceejayoz 2y ago
They're likely to remain useful in some contexts for quite some time. A few really good planes and a lot of low-end drones is probably what we'll have in a few decades.
- nradov 2y ago
  In particular the F-47 is expected to act as a forward control node for drones. We're probably decades away from having AI software that can autonomously execute any type of complex mission. So that means there's a critical need for a crewed aircraft survivable enough to get close to the target, even if it doesn't have to directly employ weapons itself.
ironyman 2y ago
The USAF requires a very high-end fighter with a range of several thousand nautical miles (or at least double that of the F-22) in order to operate within the area denial bubble of China, which they project is only going to get more and more capable. https://www.twz.com/air/air-force-predicts-enemy-anti-air-missiles-with-1000-mile-range-by-2050 https://www.twz.com/air/air-force-predicts-enemy-anti-air-mi...
- tqi 2y ago
  Thats interesting - am I understanding correctly that the reasoning is that forward air bases will become more vulnerable, so we need to be able to operate from domestic bases?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

ceejayoz 2y ago

Let's hope it goes a little better than Starliner.

uejfiweun 2y ago

Doesn't exactly make me bullish on the future that we're pinning our air superiority hopes on Boeing...

maxglute 2y ago

I guess DoD can't give lockmart monopoly over stealth fighters. That said, IIRC Boeing's never designed a stealth plane before. But can't let Boeing military sink. LM gets F35s, NG gets B21s, Boeing gets NGAD. Looking forward to 20 years of growing pain articles.

ein0p 2y ago

Can we finish the F-35 before we start another trillion dollar boondoggle? Especially with Boeing.

jerlam 2y ago
The F-35 has been operational for years, and has already been in combat. How is it not "finished"?
- sillywalk 2y ago
  Yes it's achieved an Initial Operational Capacity, at least for the earlier versions. However, it hasn't finished Operational Testing, for the newer versions of software/hardware upgrades. "The Office of the Director, Operational Test and Evaluation said in its annual report, submitted to Congress on Jan. 31, that dedicated operational tests for the F-35’s Technology Refresh 3, or TR-3, upgrades will probably start in mid to late fiscal 2026, or around next summer. Those tests are intended to determine whether TR-3 is operationally effective. Lt. Gen. Michael Schmidt, the military’s F-35 program executive officer, said in a statement to Defense News that as of January, Lockheed Martin has delivered more than 100 TR-3 equipped fighters. All of those jets have software allowing its pilots to conduct training flights, including combat training." https://www.defensenews.com/air/2025/02/05/key-tests-for-latest-f-35s-will-begin-in-2026-two-years-after-rollout/ https://www.defensenews.com/air/2025/02/05/key-tests-for-lat...
  - nradov 2y ago
    Well now that's moving the goalposts. Military aircraft are frequently upgraded with new models or blocks throughout the production run. So there will always be new capabilities undergoing testing. The F-35 TR-3 is behind schedule and over budget as usual, but that really has nothing to do with the NGAD / F-47 program.
    - ein0p 2y ago
      Only 30% of F-35 fleet are "mission ready", software suite is full of bugs, and the airframe cracks if you use the cannon, but sure, it's just "moving the goal posts" and has nothing to do with anything. Let's spend another couple trillion on another half-baked heap of bugs, except this time around let's spend it with the company that forgot how to build reliable planes or spacecraft.

Rooster61 2y ago

Lovely. We're stuck between Lockheed, who brought us the wonderful F-35 budget black hole, and Boeing, who can't seem to make anything airworthy these days in commercial and spaceflight. What happened to aviation? The US used to be so incredibly good at it, at least ostensibly.

salawat 2y ago
It got financialized. Everything has.

maxglute 2y ago

F47 for 47th president? What a sales pitch.

EA-3167 2y ago
Allegedly it's been undergoing test flights for 5 years, back when Trump was the 45th president. I think we can dispense with the notion that the number refers to Trump.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  I think you're mixing up the R&D X-planes (there are lots: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_X-planes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_X-planes) with the actual aircraft, which isn't gonna have its first flight for years. USAF plane naming is... odd. F-35, F-117, B-1/B-2/B-21. Not much rhyme or reason. It's very possible 47 was picked for Trump's benefit. Silly, but possible.

belter 2y ago

Looks like catch up to China: "China’s J-36 Stealth Fighter Prototype Makes Second Public Appearance" - https://www.eurasiantimes.com/chinas-j-36-6th-gen-fighter-prototype/ https://www.eurasiantimes.com/chinas-j-36-6th-gen-fighter-pr...

osiyo 2y ago

Hard to get excited about a crumbling empire telling me they've taken on a badass project and tasked a company like Boeing to make it badass. I was working in a dept full of very talented engineers at Cisco in '19. One of the engineers got a bit fed-up with things and took a new position at Boeing. He returned a month later. Take that however you want.