4 ms·

What's going on with the US government? They're doing so many things which could normally be described as "Cartoonishly Self Destructive" that it's hard to kee

What's going on with the US government? They're doing so many things which could normally be described as "Cartoonishly Self Destructive" that it's hard to keep up with their actual objectives. What's even less clear to me is why the apparatus of state seems so willing to go along with these whims of the executive. I'd imagine every EU/UK company is re-thinking any US based conferences they have booked right now, because who knows if your field will suddenly fall under their whims.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
“Semi incompetent bully” is the persona you should imagine it operating as.
- Hizonner 2y ago
  "Semi"?
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    Some of the damage is sticking.
piva00 2y ago
Self-destruction of the US government is kinda the point for Curtis Yarvin and his followers to implement their vision, same for all the cyberlibertarians in Silicon Valley. That's the only way so far I've managed to make sense of what the USA is doing to itself, the destruction is the point.
- tharmas 2y ago
  Yes, this explains a lot of the "logic" behind the behavior of this Trump administration. I also think that its not just an end goal but that they enjoy the means to this end. "There is a class of men whose sole delight is in destroying" William Blake
InsideOutSanta 2y ago
I suspect all these things are happening because the Trump government's sheer number of actions makes it impossible to react to or report on everything. Creating chaos is the goal, not an accident, and preposterous actions like threatening to annex Canada (or closing access to a shared library) allow the Trump administration to undermine the system in less obvious ways while everybody is paying attention to the flashy stuff. It's also important to remember that democracies are weird in the sense that people who could abuse power voluntarily do not do so. Democratic systems only work because people accept that they work (similar to fiat money). Once people start questioning them, they can fail very quickly (see the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank). Presidential systems are particularly susceptible to this sudden collapse because they start out with a strong concentration of power in one person. After all the recent firings and appointments, so many people in positions of power believe in unconstrained executive action that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Recent Supreme Court decisions related to presidential immunity from criminal prosecution for actions taken while in office bolster this view.
- eigenspace 2y ago
  You also have to add in the fact that the USA's system of 'checks and balances' via different branches of government constantly blocking eachother from doing anything, and the Electoral College system of assigning votes and enforcing a 2-party system also contribute hugely to anti-democratic sentiment. Americans feel (somewhat rightly) that their democracy isn't responsive enough, and even if it was more responsive, they feel it doesn't represent them. Many of them seem to think the only way to fix this is to have a king. _____ To connect this back to HackerNews relevant discussion, I feel there's a bit of an "innovators dilemma" at play with democracies. The democracies which developed the earliest have some design flaws baked very deeply into their mechanics that later democracies recognized as problems and were able to avoid. But in older democracies, there's too many entrenched interests against fixing these problems so they keep ancient design flaws even when everyone knows they're counterproductive (and in the present case, perhaps even fatal)
  - cadamsdotcom 2y ago
    Very much this. There are some design flaws in the US system that are hard to fix - some of which is by design. The other thing that’s sad to see is that slides into substandard leadership have plenty of precedent - strong, well-run countries have many times reverted thanks to incoming leaders being worse at the job. The US has just come off an exceptional run of competent and strong leaders driven by ideals, but eventually your hot streak is going to come to an end. To put it another way, this looks to be a reversion to the mean.
fanatic2pope 2y ago
[flagged]
- Freedom2 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - hw-guy 2y ago
    Someone once said to me that he had no interest in going to Europe because "the US has every kind of landscape that Europe does," as if there is no other reason to travel but to see natural scenery.
    - nfneixkfb 2y ago
      [flagged]
  - nfneixkfb 2y ago
    [flagged]
- ASalazarMX 2y ago
  > People I speak to here in Ohio aren't even aware that the annexation of Canada by economic and potentially military means is now official US government policy Is it? Honestly I thought it was just the presidential equivalent of shitposting, like the Gulf of USA. I see more likely a military intervention in Mexico, and I still think Trump doesn't have it in him to start a guerrilla war in the southern border.
betaby 2y ago
> What's going on with the US government? More important question is 'What's going on with the US people?' Are they "just following orders"?
- SebFender 2y ago
  100%
- ASalazarMX 2y ago
  Change doesn't happen until the majority is affected by not changing. It hasn't reached critical mass, and it seems demagogic leaders of the world have learned to slowly cook the frog so the critical mass point moves a bit further each week. Mexico just changed from a superdemagogic leader to one less so. Their deceptively simple recipe is, like Alice in Wonderland, doing five unimportant stupid things before breakfast, so their next important stupid thing doesn't look as bad.
- joquarky 2y ago
  Many people are afraid of having the spotlight of hatred pointed at them.
otoburb 2y ago
>>What's even less clear to me is why the apparatus of state seems so willing to go along with these whims of the executive. Can you expand on this a bit more? Are you suggesting that government employees should quit in protest? For better or for worse, the American President is in charge of the executive branch and (most? all?) US government employees are part of that branch.
- ty6853 2y ago
  Clearly they aren't as that would have implied Biden could have simply dictated that the DEA reschedule marijuana, which seems to have been effectively halted by stalling until Trump got in office by stalling the hearings until one day after swearing in.

toomuchtodo 2y ago

“Semi incompetent bully” is the persona you should imagine it operating as.

Hizonner 2y ago
"Semi"?
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Some of the damage is sticking.

piva00 2y ago

Self-destruction of the US government is kinda the point for Curtis Yarvin and his followers to implement their vision, same for all the cyberlibertarians in Silicon Valley. That's the only way so far I've managed to make sense of what the USA is doing to itself, the destruction is the point.

tharmas 2y ago
Yes, this explains a lot of the "logic" behind the behavior of this Trump administration. I also think that its not just an end goal but that they enjoy the means to this end. "There is a class of men whose sole delight is in destroying" William Blake

InsideOutSanta 2y ago

I suspect all these things are happening because the Trump government's sheer number of actions makes it impossible to react to or report on everything. Creating chaos is the goal, not an accident, and preposterous actions like threatening to annex Canada (or closing access to a shared library) allow the Trump administration to undermine the system in less obvious ways while everybody is paying attention to the flashy stuff. It's also important to remember that democracies are weird in the sense that people who could abuse power voluntarily do not do so. Democratic systems only work because people accept that they work (similar to fiat money). Once people start questioning them, they can fail very quickly (see the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank). Presidential systems are particularly susceptible to this sudden collapse because they start out with a strong concentration of power in one person. After all the recent firings and appointments, so many people in positions of power believe in unconstrained executive action that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Recent Supreme Court decisions related to presidential immunity from criminal prosecution for actions taken while in office bolster this view.

eigenspace 2y ago
You also have to add in the fact that the USA's system of 'checks and balances' via different branches of government constantly blocking eachother from doing anything, and the Electoral College system of assigning votes and enforcing a 2-party system also contribute hugely to anti-democratic sentiment. Americans feel (somewhat rightly) that their democracy isn't responsive enough, and even if it was more responsive, they feel it doesn't represent them. Many of them seem to think the only way to fix this is to have a king. _____ To connect this back to HackerNews relevant discussion, I feel there's a bit of an "innovators dilemma" at play with democracies. The democracies which developed the earliest have some design flaws baked very deeply into their mechanics that later democracies recognized as problems and were able to avoid. But in older democracies, there's too many entrenched interests against fixing these problems so they keep ancient design flaws even when everyone knows they're counterproductive (and in the present case, perhaps even fatal)
- cadamsdotcom 2y ago
  Very much this. There are some design flaws in the US system that are hard to fix - some of which is by design. The other thing that’s sad to see is that slides into substandard leadership have plenty of precedent - strong, well-run countries have many times reverted thanks to incoming leaders being worse at the job. The US has just come off an exceptional run of competent and strong leaders driven by ideals, but eventually your hot streak is going to come to an end. To put it another way, this looks to be a reversion to the mean.

fanatic2pope 2y ago

[flagged]

Freedom2 2y ago
[flagged]
- hw-guy 2y ago
  Someone once said to me that he had no interest in going to Europe because "the US has every kind of landscape that Europe does," as if there is no other reason to travel but to see natural scenery.
  - nfneixkfb 2y ago
    [flagged]
- nfneixkfb 2y ago
  [flagged]
ASalazarMX 2y ago
> People I speak to here in Ohio aren't even aware that the annexation of Canada by economic and potentially military means is now official US government policy Is it? Honestly I thought it was just the presidential equivalent of shitposting, like the Gulf of USA. I see more likely a military intervention in Mexico, and I still think Trump doesn't have it in him to start a guerrilla war in the southern border.

betaby 2y ago

> What's going on with the US government? More important question is 'What's going on with the US people?' Are they "just following orders"?

SebFender 2y ago
100%
ASalazarMX 2y ago
Change doesn't happen until the majority is affected by not changing. It hasn't reached critical mass, and it seems demagogic leaders of the world have learned to slowly cook the frog so the critical mass point moves a bit further each week. Mexico just changed from a superdemagogic leader to one less so. Their deceptively simple recipe is, like Alice in Wonderland, doing five unimportant stupid things before breakfast, so their next important stupid thing doesn't look as bad.
joquarky 2y ago
Many people are afraid of having the spotlight of hatred pointed at them.

otoburb 2y ago

>>What's even less clear to me is why the apparatus of state seems so willing to go along with these whims of the executive. Can you expand on this a bit more? Are you suggesting that government employees should quit in protest? For better or for worse, the American President is in charge of the executive branch and (most? all?) US government employees are part of that branch.

ty6853 2y ago
Clearly they aren't as that would have implied Biden could have simply dictated that the DEA reschedule marijuana, which seems to have been effectively halted by stalling until Trump got in office by stalling the hearings until one day after swearing in.