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This is absurd, I do agree with this framing... but rather than trash the company in the comments I'm curious about what people think. Would ads be better? If

This is absurd, I do agree with this framing... but rather than trash the company in the comments I'm curious about what people think. Would ads be better? If JSFiddle were your project, what would you do to provide yourself a salary? I think we've discovered that the "buy me a coffee" strategy is just that, enough to generate a little bonus income... but is it simply unreasonable to expect that a project on the web that requires ongoing maintenance can generate a reasonable income for most people? How do we get off the enshittification treadmill? is this a corporate owner being too greedy? are we expecting too much? have our lifestyles become unsustainable?

chii 2y ago
> what would you do to provide yourself a salary? the fundamental answer is that you cannot, because this site does not produce sufficient value for the cost to provide that salary (without resorting to ads i meant). And in fact, the majority of sites are of this nature. The value provided simply does not support the continued cost of maintenance and operations. > have our lifestyles become unsustainable? i would argue yes. People have come to expect their cost to get rounded down (to zero), because the value they derived from the site is also rounded down to zero (in their minds). It's also a fact that it is impossible for a real, cost effective microtransctions platform to exist on the net, unless it's a full walled garden (and this directly contradicts the open web). Both of these facts means the inevitable destiny of external monetization (such as ads, or "enshitification" to force subscription), or exiting/selling out to someone else who would. It's a miracle so many sites, and products, have held out due to sheer obstinance of their creator to push thru. It's altruistic, but like fighting the tide, eventually they get worn down.
- micromacrofoot 2y ago
  > It's a miracle so many sites, and products, have held out due to sheer obstinance of their creator to push thru. It's altruistic, but like fighting the tide, eventually they get worn down. Yes I feel the same way, but it feels so sad to me. These sites are valuable to many people! I'd imagine millions are familiar with JSFiddle but our idea of what things should cost is so warped. Then there's the fact that even if I were ok with giving JSFiddle a fraction of a dollar every time I visited it, I have no great way of doing it that's not ad-based. I hope we can find something more reliably between enshittification and donation.
  - AlexeyBelov 2y ago
    My view is that I have a well paid job, so I don't need to nickel-and-dime people on my software. It's free and opensource in fact.
finnthehuman 2y ago
> Would ads be better? It has ads. Did you forget to turn off your adblocker? Or are you talking like even more ads?
- micromacrofoot 2y ago
  thank you pihole for providing this moment of ignorant bliss
- BrandoElFollito 2y ago
  Some sites have useful ads. I cannot remember if it was jsfidfle or regex101 that asked to unblock them because they were serving tech ads. I even discovered a good tool (that I purchased) thanks to that. And after that I started to pay more attention to their ads

chii 2y ago

> what would you do to provide yourself a salary? the fundamental answer is that you cannot, because this site does not produce sufficient value for the cost to provide that salary (without resorting to ads i meant). And in fact, the majority of sites are of this nature. The value provided simply does not support the continued cost of maintenance and operations. > have our lifestyles become unsustainable? i would argue yes. People have come to expect their cost to get rounded down (to zero), because the value they derived from the site is also rounded down to zero (in their minds). It's also a fact that it is impossible for a real, cost effective microtransctions platform to exist on the net, unless it's a full walled garden (and this directly contradicts the open web). Both of these facts means the inevitable destiny of external monetization (such as ads, or "enshitification" to force subscription), or exiting/selling out to someone else who would. It's a miracle so many sites, and products, have held out due to sheer obstinance of their creator to push thru. It's altruistic, but like fighting the tide, eventually they get worn down.

micromacrofoot 2y ago
> It's a miracle so many sites, and products, have held out due to sheer obstinance of their creator to push thru. It's altruistic, but like fighting the tide, eventually they get worn down. Yes I feel the same way, but it feels so sad to me. These sites are valuable to many people! I'd imagine millions are familiar with JSFiddle but our idea of what things should cost is so warped. Then there's the fact that even if I were ok with giving JSFiddle a fraction of a dollar every time I visited it, I have no great way of doing it that's not ad-based. I hope we can find something more reliably between enshittification and donation.
- AlexeyBelov 2y ago
  My view is that I have a well paid job, so I don't need to nickel-and-dime people on my software. It's free and opensource in fact.

finnthehuman 2y ago

> Would ads be better? It has ads. Did you forget to turn off your adblocker? Or are you talking like even more ads?

micromacrofoot 2y ago
thank you pihole for providing this moment of ignorant bliss
BrandoElFollito 2y ago
Some sites have useful ads. I cannot remember if it was jsfidfle or regex101 that asked to unblock them because they were serving tech ads. I even discovered a good tool (that I purchased) thanks to that. And after that I started to pay more attention to their ads