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China is developing some startling new kit in its quest to invade Taiwan
- suraci 2y agoweird that the economist uses the word 'reclaim' instead of 'invade'
- cookiemonsieur 2y ago[flagged]
- dontlaugh 2y agoAnd furthermore, the government on Taiwan (ROC) is the one that lost the civil war for China. They still claim all of China as their territory (and actually a bit more than the PRC). Even the US officially accepts Taiwan is a part of China. Majority public opinion in Taiwan is still that it’s a part of China (however that is defined), although that is slowly changing.
- hayst4ck 2y agoHave you ever been to Taiwan? Can you really not separate coerced opinion from opinion? "Do you want to claim independence [and potentially be killed or economically punished for doing so]?" "Do you prefer the status quo [knowing that any change will be punished harshly]"? Seeing China fully colonize Hong Kong sent shivers through Taiwanese society. President Lai was largely considered a rejection of China.
- hayst4ck 2y agoArguing for border changes based on history can justify any border change. It's not functionally any different from "might makes right" because the invaded is unlikely to agree with that historical interpretation, nor are outside observers. If you have a reason based system for determining what is right or wrong, then you would have to look at what the citizens in Taiwan want otherwise you are violating people who committed no crimes against China and are experiencing threats to their way of life. You are literally talking about killing people for their land. You're on a forum that's largely American. Read the declaration of independence and see if it's confusing to you why an American would want to help Taiwan. The french helped us with our own independence. By the same logic America still belongs to the British. Any papers involved may as well just be "historical documents that no longer have any practical significance."
- suraci 2y ago[flagged]
- suraci 2y ago[flagged]
- throwaf 2y ago[flagged]
- personalaccount 2y ago[flagged]
- yorwba 2y agoLike many other islands in the Pacific, Taiwan was mostly inhabited by Austronesian speakers until the arrival of European colonizers. In 1624, the Dutch East India company set up a colony on Taiwan (then called Formosa) as an outpost for trade with the Ming dynasty, encouraging Chinese workers to immigrate. At the time, the Ming were under pressure from the Jurchens (later Manchus), who ended up conquering China and establishing the Qing dynasty. In 1662, Ming remnants fleeing the mainland defeated the Dutch and conquered the island, subsequently being defeated and conquered in turn by the Qing in 1684. And in 1895 Taiwan was seized by Japan. That's barely more than 200 years of being tied to the mainland, nowhere close to 5000. If you go by duration of historical possession, Taiwan would have to be ruled by a minority aristocracy of indigenous peoples, about 3% of the population.
- suraci 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- RaSoJo 2y agoI feel this to be a balanced headline if we put on an editor’s hat: The subject of the sentence is "China." From China’s standpoint, Taiwan was always theirs. Hence, from this viewpoint, it is a "reclaim."
- jackvalentine 2y ago111
- suraci 2y ago[flagged]
- jackvalentine 2y agoI have no idea what you’re trying to say, or what you think I was saying.
- suraci 2y agonevermind, wrong words have been eliminated
- hayst4ck 2y agoTimothy Snyder talks about this idea of "Myth of founding," particularly in regards to Ukraine. You would probably enjoy this lecture titled "the genesis of nations" from his history of Ukraine lecture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LaEmaMAkpM&list=PLh9mgdi4rNewfxO7LhBoz_1Mx1MaO6sw_&index=2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LaEmaMAkpM&list=PLh9mgdi4rN... Thinking about this social form of the nation, what makes it particularly tricky, is that the nation once it exists, lays claim to the past. The nation didn't already exist, but once it comes into existence, it tells a story about the past... This new social form has a story about how it's very old.
- jackvalentine 2y agoThis doesn’t seem like a reply to my post?
- borgdefenser 2y agoI am reading a great book right now. The Tao of Deception: Unorthodox Warfare in Historic and Modern China by Ralph Sawyer. I am not sure I would listen to anyone but Ralph Sawyer at this point in English on the subject. China is not going to invade Taiwan the way the US would invade Hawaii in the same situation. That is just not how China conducts warfare. Taiwan is another level with all this. What matters is the PLA views it as reclaiming. They have to win by soft power and not "win" like the US going in and blowing the shit out of Iraq. Disturb the water and catch a fish. In that context, something like DeepSeek is a much bigger deal as far as the objectives. 1000X more than this decoy.
- suraci 2y agowhat you said is how China planed before 2019, reality's development makes it impossible to act as previously planned, now, there's 0 chance that the CCP can take back Taiwan without bombs however, it really depends on the definitions of 'reclaim' and 'win' China's purpose is not only to take the land, but also to 'reunite' taiwanese people, so you're right about they are going to need to use soft power to achieve this, so yes, it will not be like what the US did to Hawaii and Iraq btw, I briefly looked through the book you mentioned and was surprised to find that, compared to other Westerners, the author has a very good understanding of China's war history and philosophy. Although it is somewhat one-sided, Chinese military philosophy is very different before and after the Han Dynasty
- neonsunset 2y agoThe soft power should read here as Uyghur concentration camps.
- cempaka 2y agoIt's pretty funny that Westerners are still going on about this largely invented issue after underwriting a brutal genocide in Gaza for almost 18 months. Won't someone please think of the oppressed Muslims!
- jdxcode 2y agodid the economist edit the title? it uses "seize"
- suraci 2y agothe last time i check it, it was 'relaim' you can still see the word in the url that's why i said 'weird', it's very abnormal for the economist, looks like someone had gone astray in his thinking, fortunately, it has now been corrected
- mauli 2y agoSame for me, after an auto redirect.. (German IP) - maybe there is some shenanigans going on based on visitor location origin.
- mauli 2y agoCannot edit my post in mobile. This is the link I am getting redirected to: https://www.economist.com/china/2025/03/20/china-is-developing-some-startling-new-kit-in-its-quest-to-seize-taiwan https://www.economist.com/china/2025/03/20/china-is-developi...
- Yeul 2y agoHow many countries recognize Taiwan sovereignty? Even as far back as the 1960s the Pentagon considered it a lost cause hence there are no US bases in the island.
- suraci 2y agoit's a lost cause in 1960s, but not now
- red-iron-pine 2y agodrones and EW have changed that game. maybe not in Taiwan's favor, though. but Taiwan is a mountainous, forested island. it'll be an ugly, expensive occupation.
- suraci 2y agonah, china will take over taiwan very easily, the tough part is not occupation, is how to make it quick with least damage, and the further governance
- dismalaf 2y agoNot even Taiwan claims to be a separate country from China, legally they're the "Republic of China".
- ImJamal 2y agoThe place we commonly refer to as China is not the Republic of China, but the People's Republic of China. That is like saying that Republic of Congo and the Democratic Republic of Congo are the same country because they both end in Congo.
- dismalaf 2y ago> The place we commonly refer to as China is not the Republic of China, but the People's Republic of China. ??? No kidding. ROC = Taiwan. The ROC were the Chinese government, went into exile in Taiwan after they lost the civil war and still claim all of China, which is why they're not claiming to be a separate country from mainland China, which is currently governed by the PRC...
- gizajob 2y agoYeah technically it would be the Taiwanese reclaiming China.
- rdtsc 2y agoWe’re helping Taiwan reclaim us back. We just built a cool landing craft to help them make it more efficient. I can see that propaganda line working!
- stefantalpalaru 2y ago[dead]
- neonsunset 2y agoPlease fix the title to “China is developing some startling new kit in its quest to invade Taiwan”. Thanks.
- suraci 2y ago[flagged]
- barbafant 2y agohttps://archive.ph/latest/https://www.economist.com/china/2025/03/20/china-is-developing-some-startling-new-kit-in-its-quest-to-seize-taiwan https://archive.ph/latest/https://www.economist.com/china/20...
- suraci 2y agobtw, here's an article about it in Jan https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2025/01/china-suddenly-building-fleet-of-special-barges-suitable-for-taiwan-landings/ https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2025/01/china-suddenly-... Surely the D-day is coming
- cjbenedikt 2y ago"...a single Chinese state-owned shipbuilder produced a larger tonnage of commercial vessels in 2024 than America has built since the second world war." Of course, due to the 1920 US "Job's Act" (the irony) there wasn't much ship building left.
- AlecSchueler 2y agoI thought we weren't doing politics on HN?
- Supermancho 2y agoFolding Tank bridges are technically interesting. eg http://twz.com/former-m60-tanks-fitted-with-folding-bridges-are-headed-for-ukraine http://twz.com/former-m60-tanks-fitted-with-folding-bridges-... Raised? Ship Bridges, with ship feet! These are a whole new thing. Equally interesting. The political implications are incidental.
- TiredOfLife 2y agoThere is politics and there is events that affect the whole fucking world.