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DNA evidence says first Americans came from Asia
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- fabfoe 2y agoI mean where else would they have come from
- LargoLasskhyfv 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diné_Bahaneʼ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diné_Bahaneʼ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopi_mythology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopi_mythology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_myth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_myth
- johnea 2y agoThose are interesting mythologies, akin to an invisible guy in outer space making a man out of a twig and 2 dingleberries, but does it really have anything to do with where early american people actually came from? After a couple of genrations, I'm sure early american's had lost cultural knowledge of how exactly they came to be in the americas. After a couple of centuries, for sure all of this info was gone. Another example of this might be the early viking habitation in north america, which was totally forgotten before other europeans arrived 500 years later...
- AzzyHN 2y agoEven in more modern times, the details of how a population of people came to be can get lost. For instance, nobody actually knew where the Romani people actually came from until the 1800s or so, and even then, the theory of a migration out of India (specifically, the Punjab region) couldn't be proven until the advent of modern DNA science. See more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Romani_people#Origin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Romani_people#O...
- johnea 2y agoThat's an excellent point, and exactly what I was trying to point out in my post.
- perrygeo 2y agoMyths are not meant to be believed literally, they tell a story about how to live in right relationship to the earth. And that's why I find the first nation stories so valuable - it's a philosophy born of a very different historical trajectory than European culture. The Beringian Standstill hypothesis states that a group migrated out of Asia 25k years ago and were effectively trapped by glaciers in the temperate coastal plains of southern Alaska (what is now the Gulf of Alaska). When glaciers melted 15kya, sea levels rose and they start traveling south. (You'll notice lots of references to a great flood - the globally rising sea levels no doubt leading to this myth being prevalent around the world in many cultures, first nations included) By that point, they'd already been Americans for 10k years. There wasn't likely any conscious realization of this, no cultural memory of "Asia". But they truly were the first Americans, and way earlier than we were taught. The result is a grand natural experiment - a group of humans completely cut off from Asia/Africa/Europe for millennia. That culture incubated in southern AK for 10k years, then spread out over the Americas for the last 15k, only to run into long lost European cousins 500 years ago. It's that long period of relative isolation that makes the first nation stories so valuable. The kind of morals, myths and values that arose from this unique historical trajectory can be quite different to philosophies of the old continents. Yet surprisingly similar (we are human after all).
- johntitorjr 2y ago[dead]
- wqaatwt 2y ago> which was totally forgotten before other europeans Was it? They just haven’t realized or cared that it was a different continent rather than a bunch of different islands far in the North. Vinland sagas were written several hundred years after the last voyages and weren’t lost either (Iceland itself had very limited contact with the rest of Europe though (e.g. it took the plague an extra 50 years to get there).
- johnea 2y agoIt was forgotten by the other europeans...
- wqaatwt 2y agoOther Europeans never knew anything that they could forget… Nobody cared or had any clue what some “savages” in the North were up to and whether they discovered another random island. If they did it had no impact on them. Europe was extremely different in the late 1400s compared to 1000 AD, Columbus letters were published in many major cities almost immediately after his return.
- mac3n 2y agoKamiah, ID https://www.nps.gov/nepe/learn/historyculture/heart-of-the-monster-history.htm https://www.nps.gov/nepe/learn/historyculture/heart-of-the-m...
- johnea 2y agoSeriously, was there ever any doubt about this?
- IncreasePosts 2y agoPolynesians who kept going east was a fringe theory.
- tiahura 2y agoPolynesians didn’t reach Tahiti until 900AD.
- IncreasePosts 2y agoWell I did say it was a fringe theory. And you have a very relevant username!
- tiahura 2y agoIt’s a magical place. Definitely go if you can.
- Jolter 2y agoThor Heyerdahl famously believed that America was colonized from the east. He built a papyrus boat and crossed the Atlantic from Morocco to prove it was possible. It was not the first time he was wrong.
- yieldcrv 2y agoNot familiar with him, but if we remove the curiosity about “first”, there could be paleolithic eastern migration and explorers too
- NikkiA 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-Tiki_expedition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-Tiki_expedition There's a very good movie documentary about it, which won an oscar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-Tiki_(1950_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-Tiki_(1950_film) Also, the following regarding his later Papyrus boat expedition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra_(1972_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra_(1972_film)
- BurningFrog 2y agoI think he did prove it was possible.
- Jolter 2y agoHe did! So he reached his goal. He was certainly a “doer”. His theories met fierce criticism from academics though.
- mmooss 2y ago> He was certainly a “doer”. His theories met fierce criticism from academics though. It seems the privileged place some people give to 'doer', and their decision to define the hard work of academic research as not 'doing', produced the wrong answer. Thor might have done better with another approach.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- mac3n 2y agoalso "The population history of northeastern Siberia since the Pleistocene" https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7617447/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7617447/
- johnisgood 2y agoWho did not come from Asia, is my question.
- hollerith 2y agoMost sub-Saharan Africans have no Asian ancestors -- or at least that is our best guess. (Conversely, everyone has ancestors who lived in sub-Saharan Africa.)
- jahnu 2y agoI don’t think it works like that. Gene mixing happens all over the world and our nearest common ancestor of everyone alive today is only 3000 years ago. http://www.stat.yale.edu/~jtc5/papers/CommonAncestors/NatureAncestorsPressRelease.html http://www.stat.yale.edu/~jtc5/papers/CommonAncestors/Nature...
- hansvm 2y ago> ignored such complexities as geography and migration That article doesn't look compelling when refuting a claim that depends entirely on geography and migration.
- zamadatix 2y agoNot that I'm particularly convinced myself but you quoted the part about the prior paper, not the one the link was talking about: > The current paper presents more realistic mathematical and computer models. It incorporates factors such as socially driven mating, physical barriers of geography and migration, and recorded historical events.
- hansvm 2y agoThat's embarrassing. Thank you.
- vanattab 2y ago
- 100pctremote 2y agoFirst Americans?
- nkrisc 2y agoYes, the first humans in North America.
- 100pctremote 2y agoExactly. That's what the title should be.
- lotyrin 2y agoAre you really proposing that Native Americans are not Americans? Is the term "American" so stained by colonialist hate?
- renewedrebecca 2y agoIdk, seems like if you're already established somewhere and someone else comes in and tells you the place you live and your ancestors have lived in for millennia is now called "America"... Dunno, that feels kind of wrong.
- crazygringo 2y agoFirst, it's not "America", it's "The Americas" -- we're talking about the two continents, right? The New World? Second, that's the word we use in English. If you've lived here for millenia, you can use the appropriate word in your own language.
- amanaplanacanal 2y agoWhether you count it as two continents or one depends on where you are from.
- jsnider3 2y agoEven though it was already known, more proof is good.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Ericson2314 2y agoDifficult to read excerpts from a few different articles that mostly but not completely agree
- iancmceachern 2y agoThis is science in a nutshell, no?
- EgregiousCube 2y agoMore research than science :)
- iancmceachern 2y agoWhat's the difference?
- HKH2 2y agoThe processes that lead to science are somewhat subjective, otherwise scientific progress would be constant and guaranteed, no?
- iancmceachern 2y agoBut how does that effect the definitions of each?
- EgregiousCube 2y agoScience includes activities outside reading papers that slightly disagree, such as testing hypotheses with experiments; hence my comment that the former isn't science in a nutshell. It describes research quite well, which one can argue is a subset of scientific activity.
- Ericson2314 2y agoThis is "Writing the meta-analysis left as an exercise to the non-specialist reader"
- mjfl 2y agoIt is my understanding that they've always been understood to be descendants of the Siberians.
- chaostheory 2y agoNot surprising since Dios de la muerte is very reminiscent of ancestor worship through out Asia down to the ritualist food offerings at the cemetery.
- crazygringo 2y agoI'm a little confused why this is posted? I thought this has been common knowledge for a long time. This isn't a news story, just a kind of encyclopedia (?) entry, and it should have a (2024) at least, because of the "Last updated June 2024" at bottom.
- aradox66 2y agoI think the popular knowledge was based on the bering straight ice age migration story, which has been mostly debunked. how the americas were peoples remains an open question https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peopling_of_the_Americas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peopling_of_the_Americas
- jonny_eh 2y ago> how the americas were peoples remains an open question Did you mean "peopled"?
- aradox66 2y agoYes
- milesrout 2y agoYou say debunked then link to an article that starts: >The peopling of the Americas began when Paleolithic hunter-gatherers (Paleo-Indians) entered North America from the North Asian Mammoth steppe via the Beringia land bridge, which had formed between northeastern Siberia and western Alaska due to the lowering of sea level during the Last Glacial Maximum (26,000 to 19,000 years ago). That is what is common knowledge afaik. What has been debunked?
- aradox66 2y agoYeah idk maybe I misunderstood what's going on
- teleforce 2y ago>Migration Patterns Deduced from Blood Types and North America and Siberian Languages The title will be more accurate if include languages as well.
- pram 2y agoIf you look at videos of Yakut+other siberian/steppe people their cultural clothing looks pretty similar to what (native) Americans have. I think thats pretty neat.
- mac3n 2y agoyou mean, like (Yukaghir)? https://www.ethnicjewelsmagazine.co.uk/articles-yukagir/#!jig%5B1%5D/ML/1662 https://www.ethnicjewelsmagazine.co.uk/articles-yukagir/#!ji... To be fair, the environment imposes a lot of constraints. And there's the Eskimo/Inuit cultures that cross the Bering strait.
- inglor_cz 2y agoNo surprise here. Look, for example, at this clip of traditional Siberian music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU1apJTv94o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU1apJTv94o or this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXLoP9iSU5Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXLoP9iSU5Y The similarity to North American Indian cultures is still striking, 13 thousand years later. (And I like the way the singer just overflows with musical energy, too...)
- grahamgooch 2y agoSo America is actually Russia?
- card_zero 2y agoSure, and Russia is actually Iran which is actually Tanzania.