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Class consciousness is firmly in the zeitgeist: witness season 1 of Severance. There is no going back from this, as once you are disillusioned it is much harde

Class consciousness is firmly in the zeitgeist: witness season 1 of Severance. There is no going back from this, as once you are disillusioned it is much harder to be re-illusioned. There will be some sort of collective response by white-collar professionals at some point. I think people are ready for change.

ThrowawayR2 2y ago
Most developers are paid more than 2x the median wage. For HN, that difference is probably 3x-5x or more. If class consciousness is on the rise, HN's readership is in the classes that the lower economic strata are going to be rising up against. If you have any illusions that the proletariat will welcome you with open arms for your claimed solidarity, think again or you might be in for a shock; specifically, a short, sharp shock.
- brian-armstrong 2y ago
  Conversely, software engineers are generating considerably more profit for their employers than they receive in compensation on average. I know it's not the only metric of exploitation, but it's a hard one to ignore.
- guy234 2y ago
  how is the proletariat oppressed by an ordinary non-management software developer?
  - xboxnolifes 2y ago
    It doesnt matter. What matters is what side you are perceived to be on.
  - tekla 2y ago
    Drives rents up for ordinary people.
- lblume 2y ago
  Disagree. Class consciousness is about realizing that societal classes correspond to their relation to the means of production, not the concrete wage being earned. The majority of developers is part of the proletariat, at least according to Marx.
  - ThrowawayR2 2y ago
    In an actual class conflict, when a group of working poor people knocks on your door and notices that you are a little too well dressed, a little too well fed, lacking the calluses and fatigue from working two low wage jobs, a little too well spoken and educated, a little too bourgeois, do you think they will be interested in discussing the minutiae of the Marxian definition of the proletariat or weighing the metrics of exploitation before they drag you out into the street?
    - lblume 2y ago
      That is why all vaguely successful revolutions have been based on a Leninist-type vanguard party based on an educated "elite" claiming to lead the masses. For better or worse, their implementation of Marxist ideas was fairly consistent.
dnissley 2y ago
I watched season 1 of severance. What did I miss? I don't remember any lessons on class consciousness
daedrdev 2y ago
I strongly feel that groups within the "classes" often have vast differences that make me question the idea of class consciousness. A well off tech emloyee has interests that align far more with those with wealth than a small business owner who might have interests far more aligned with blue collar workers. And don't even get me started on social differences, like LGBT right etc that divide people.
- sureglymop 2y ago
  Social differences shouldn't make you question class consciousness. Quite the opposite is true, to be class conscious means to have recognized what economic class you are in regardless of any other features. Hidden there is a good point though. Social differences can be leveraged as a means to deter class consciousness. Let's take the idea of the wage gap for example. Now both male and female workers can be underpaid. As a result, everyone is less likely to become class conscious and realize that, if they instead fight over a wage difference within their class.
  - daedrdev 2y ago
    So I should just look past some people wanting homophobic or sexist or racist in the name of class consciousness? Nah
wincy 2y ago
I dunno, I live in a nice house in Kansas and work from home for a nice company and have nice benefits. What am I gonna be disillusioned about? My life is literally the best it has ever been.
umeshunni 2y ago
> Class consciousness is firmly in the zeitgeist More like people who work in some media companies have certain political beliefs that may or may not be out of touch of broader society. Witness their constant surprise at election results as an example.
api 2y ago
It’s certainly one thing in the zeitgeist but I still have the sense that culture war stuff has a much firmer grip on a larger number of people and has a lot more power to swing elections. That includes both its left wing “woke” form and its right wing reactionary form. Very anecdotal but it also seems that the culture war stuff is stronger among those making less money, which would be the target audience for any class revolt rhetoric. Could be wrong though. Maybe my sample size is just small.
mfro 2y ago
.

ThrowawayR2 2y ago

Most developers are paid more than 2x the median wage. For HN, that difference is probably 3x-5x or more. If class consciousness is on the rise, HN's readership is in the classes that the lower economic strata are going to be rising up against. If you have any illusions that the proletariat will welcome you with open arms for your claimed solidarity, think again or you might be in for a shock; specifically, a short, sharp shock.

brian-armstrong 2y ago
Conversely, software engineers are generating considerably more profit for their employers than they receive in compensation on average. I know it's not the only metric of exploitation, but it's a hard one to ignore.
guy234 2y ago
how is the proletariat oppressed by an ordinary non-management software developer?
- xboxnolifes 2y ago
  It doesnt matter. What matters is what side you are perceived to be on.
- tekla 2y ago
  Drives rents up for ordinary people.
lblume 2y ago
Disagree. Class consciousness is about realizing that societal classes correspond to their relation to the means of production, not the concrete wage being earned. The majority of developers is part of the proletariat, at least according to Marx.
- ThrowawayR2 2y ago
  In an actual class conflict, when a group of working poor people knocks on your door and notices that you are a little too well dressed, a little too well fed, lacking the calluses and fatigue from working two low wage jobs, a little too well spoken and educated, a little too bourgeois, do you think they will be interested in discussing the minutiae of the Marxian definition of the proletariat or weighing the metrics of exploitation before they drag you out into the street?
  - lblume 2y ago
    That is why all vaguely successful revolutions have been based on a Leninist-type vanguard party based on an educated "elite" claiming to lead the masses. For better or worse, their implementation of Marxist ideas was fairly consistent.

dnissley 2y ago

I watched season 1 of severance. What did I miss? I don't remember any lessons on class consciousness

daedrdev 2y ago

I strongly feel that groups within the "classes" often have vast differences that make me question the idea of class consciousness. A well off tech emloyee has interests that align far more with those with wealth than a small business owner who might have interests far more aligned with blue collar workers. And don't even get me started on social differences, like LGBT right etc that divide people.

sureglymop 2y ago
Social differences shouldn't make you question class consciousness. Quite the opposite is true, to be class conscious means to have recognized what economic class you are in regardless of any other features. Hidden there is a good point though. Social differences can be leveraged as a means to deter class consciousness. Let's take the idea of the wage gap for example. Now both male and female workers can be underpaid. As a result, everyone is less likely to become class conscious and realize that, if they instead fight over a wage difference within their class.
- daedrdev 2y ago
  So I should just look past some people wanting homophobic or sexist or racist in the name of class consciousness? Nah

wincy 2y ago

I dunno, I live in a nice house in Kansas and work from home for a nice company and have nice benefits. What am I gonna be disillusioned about? My life is literally the best it has ever been.

umeshunni 2y ago

> Class consciousness is firmly in the zeitgeist More like people who work in some media companies have certain political beliefs that may or may not be out of touch of broader society. Witness their constant surprise at election results as an example.

api 2y ago

It’s certainly one thing in the zeitgeist but I still have the sense that culture war stuff has a much firmer grip on a larger number of people and has a lot more power to swing elections. That includes both its left wing “woke” form and its right wing reactionary form. Very anecdotal but it also seems that the culture war stuff is stronger among those making less money, which would be the target audience for any class revolt rhetoric. Could be wrong though. Maybe my sample size is just small.

mfro 2y ago